Erny

I just use a towel. And the extra bit gives dogs a better and easier foot purchase if the floors are slippery.

I will: I'm always going to assess the cause of a behaviour based on what I perceive to be the balance of reinforcers and the emotional state of the dog, I will always formulate a method from there based on the ability of the handler to control those reinforcers and the degree to which I believe the associations the dog has with the stimuli in question drive the behaviour, and I will ALWAYS test my assumptions by measuring the change in frequency of the behaviour after treatment. I would imagine people would walk away for the mere fact they wouldn't understand a word you said,

He's only the father of modern animal training. So? What's the comment and the laugh emoticon for?

Skimmed through as Corvus did. I agree that Bob Bailey has a good reputation and from what I have read of his works, he deserves it. However, the article posted uses words that suggests directly and/or indirectly that all e-collar work achieves a messed-up dog. That is not fact. It also suggests that if a trainer should ever inform an owner that e-collars, used correctly, can well assist and achieve good training, don't believe him/her. It is a pile of propaganda diarrohea that uses emotive words to conjur up an abusive, violent image of anyone who would do anything with a dog other than to offer it a biscuit. Do all dogs wearing a check chain encounter the "hang 'em up" experience as described in the script? Nope. There is so much in that article that is misleading and non-factual. And I will say that I don't necessarily tell people what method I will use in the training or behaviour modification of a dog either .... not until I've met the dog and the owner. I am versed in just about every method of training, some aspects moreso, some aspects less so, but at least a good cross-section allowing me to utilise successfully the four principals of learning. Unlike some orgs and people who, without the possibility of negotiation, chop those four principals down to two. Sometimes I only use two specific principals for some dogs. Sometimes I use a different pair of principals. How could I possibly "tout" what methods I use before I know what will work for the dog in its current situation the best? I can't help but doubt anyone who makes a firm statement about how they will train a dog before they've met it.

I'm not certain how to respond with a black and white answer to that, Mrs RB. I demonstrate to owners what their dog can do then hand the dog over and tutor/coach them into being able to achieve the same. In the first lesson it is not that often that the dog will respond quite as accurately as with me, but that relates not only back to the difference between a trainer with experience compared with novice handlers who understandably haven't yet been able to develop the co-ordination, but also because no two people are alike (eg body language; facial expressions; voice tones; .... these are different from one to the other) and the dog might take an albeit short time to realise that the owners are requesting a command it has not long ago learnt. (When I do a hand-over lesson with my B&T dogs, I also show owners what to do in the event their dog does not comply with what has now become a learnt command. Sometimes I would like for the dog to disobey so that I might demonstrate this, but more often that advantage does not become apparent at the time of the handover. As I've mentioned below, this is again another example of why a follow-up lesson or so is so valuable.) But the dog does generally 'get it' and becomes tuned to the owners' perhaps slightly different handling methods. A bit more coaching when people come to lessons is a great help, as there's only so much learning can be done in one session. In your situation, if you told me what you've already mentioned about you being able to train your dog to a good reliable recall but your dog won't pay that response to your Mum, I'd be likely to suggest that we look at your relationship with your dog by comparison to your Mum's; and what differences lay in the actual recall command from one to the other; what reinforcement schedule is delivered by your Mum compared with you; what your Mum's interactions are like with your dog (for one example only, your dog's training experiences with your Mum). My guess (and that's all it can be, sight unseen and all that) is that the problem lays with the relationship between your dog and your Mum and potentially the body language your Mum exhibits when giving the command to recall.

I think Inevitablue is referring to Dr Bruce Syme's Veterinary Clinic? I would give a hearty thumbs up there too, but Castlemaine is about a 3 hour drive (each way) from the South Eastern suburbs, perhaps just a little under. I've made the trip a few times and it was well worthwhile at the time, but for the basic care, one needs a Vet more local. I have visited Dr Bob Cavey who has recently opened his new Veterinary Clinic on Narre Warren North Road, Narre Warren South. "Ultimate Vet Clinic" is, I think, the name of his clinic. He understands my views and preferences to not over-use drugs and commercial diets on our dogs where we can reasonably avoid it and has not tried to push me to the contrary. Quite a reasonable and open approach to thinking outside the square.

Dogs, even without the training component, often go home and are quiet for a couple of days or so .... catching up on R&R after their exciting (excitement is 'stress' too) and stimulating kennel environment. I must admit though, BO, that I'm not sure what your interpretation of "wreck" is, but "wrecked" is not how I see the dogs (who have been in for B&T or not) from the kennels I work from, go home. If it was the training that was too demanding and stressful for her, then I'd question the training she received within the time period permitted. You can't force learning speed. You need to work with the dog at its own pace .... the trick is to set the scene so that the learning pace can be the best that it can for that dog. Bad luck if this was your first experience and if it was that bad, I understand how your confidence in the kennel boarding system might be reduced. There are some very good boarding kennels around though, so I wouldn't blame the lot of them (not that you were). But I do respect your right to not take up Boarding options and I do hope that the experience was one that saw an improvement in her behaviour, one that made it manageable enough for you to continue with and blossom in your relationship with her.

I do Boarding & Training. I must admit that I much dislike the term "Boot Camp" as it makes me imagine dogs in an army type situation, made to sweat and tough it out, finishing with 200 sit ups should they so much as look at me wrong, and then going to bed on an empty stomach. At a good establishment and with good trainers, it is so the opposite. The dogs are well kept, maintained, fed and cared for and the trainers, assuming they have good knowledge, experience and a healthy dose of passion for training and compassion for the dogs, often make training for them that bit easier because they are consistent from day one and gently but firmly show the dogs what is required and what rewards are obtainable. But hey, what's in a name, lol. To answer your question, Ludwig09, and giving my own opinion only (which I openly suggest may differ with others), Boarding & Training service is not always the best service for your dog. I have had calls from some owners requesting the B&T service, but in circumstances where the troubled behaviour they describe is stemming from home. The dog will learn to behave for me, for example, but it is not automatic that when the dog is handed back that it will carry over its new-found behaviour to its owner, and that goes a bit deeper than just the learning of sit, drop and the loose lead walk. Generally, this would be in matters where leadership/respect in the relationship at home is out of whack. In those cases, it is the relationship between dog and owner that needs working on, not so much a relationship between dog and trainer and when talking to these people I normally would suggest something like a (eg) behaviour consult and coaching to be the best and most economical for them. There are exceptions to this rule, but only in cases where the behaviours arising from the out-of-balance relationship are so out of control that the owner cannot even begin to rectify them for the fact of having no ability to control the dog. B&T might then be of some assistance in reducing the behaviour sufficiently enough for the short term so that the owner has a chance of coming straight in and carrying on with strategies to improve their relationship and the behavioural training the dog has received. Certainly, B&T has benefits in the obedience training side of things. The "teaching" of new skills often is what requires the time, regularity and consistency that owners sometimes feel they cannot give. Or the dog might be a bit on the rambunctious (sp?) side that makes it initially too difficult for some owners to get the teaching phase underway. Sometimes it can be a matter of the blind leading the blind (and by this I mean no offence) and that can make the tasks more difficult for both dog and human. Sure, the owners then have to learn, but at least one half of the sentient being relationship knows, the other just has to catch up. To use a different analogy, it is often easier to learn the fine art of equitation by learning on an experienced and trained horse. When the rider pushes the right buttons, the horse is more likely to respond by demonstrating the required movement. The Novice rider on that experienced horse is afforded the opportunity to understand what they needed to do to achieve the movement, and what that movement/relationship with the horse felt like. This makes it easier to achieve the next time and the next and the next, and so on. A Novice Rider might well push the right button (or at least nearly the right button) but an untrained horse won't as likely to respond in kind and the novice rider remains unaware of how close or far away from proper handling he or she was. I'm not saying it is impossible for a Novice Rider to learn using a novice horse, but it is slower going, more fumbley and sometimes more frustrating. Having said that and a bit to the contrary, I think that when one perseveres with patience and finally achieves, even the smallest of improvements and achievements are so incredibly rewarding. I've had dogs in for B&T that owners would not have believed possible they could be trained to perform the skills to the levels they demonstrate after their B&T stay. If they'd not seen it with their own eyes, they might never have thought it reasonable to even strive to attain them, yet share their delight with their dogs as they step in and up to the plate to continue their dog's training and reach for results they probably would never before have thought possible. In these cases, both owner and dogs win. So what I'm saying is that there are both advantages and disadvantages with B&T. Whether it is the best thing depends on the dog, the owner, the reason the owner is seeking the B&T and the dog and owners' own situation. Of course there are times when owners are going away for holidays and like their dogs to have that extra bit of attention and mental stimulation beyond what the kennels already provide. B&T can provide that as well.

Try running them on coarse sand for a while just before trimming. I've been told it makes the cuticle retract, although I have no idea of how this works or whether it works on all dogs. I could imagine the sand causing the cuticle retract .... perhaps a bit like the pushing back that manicurists do to our nails (back in the bad ol' days when I had a desk job and not a dog training job, lol). But I can't imagine the sand causing the quick to retract so quickly. Did you mean to say cuticle or quick, Greytmate? And do dogs need the cuticle pushed back, anyway? ETA: I read somewhere that if left too long for too long, in some dogs, the quick will not shrink back and hence all one can do is trim the nail length as close to the quick as practicable (and unpainful) for the dog, but more frequently than would normally be required. Save for those extreme cases as mentioned by Dancinbcs, where sometimes they may be required to be done under a GA.

The hypothetical dog acted in a manner that indicated it was disconcerted with the unusual, offensive and dangerous behaviour of the hypothetical drunken bike rider. Just my personal (ie not professional) thought.

What size/s and cost please Bark? How long have you had them and is there a "used-by" date on them?

In your instance, perhaps not. As I mentioned, it depends on the dog's length and breadth of experience/s. Perhaps I'm missing the point of your post. It has begun as somewhat generalised and it is this that makes it difficult to answer. As mentioned, "it depends". It might be better to be specific, if you want to refer to a particular dog? In that instance, a historical account of the dog's prior learning experiences and behaviours in question would be required.

One of my first thoughts was where a dog has owners who have already used extinction to train their dog out of an unwanted behaviour, but quit too early when the behaviour escalated as a result of an extinction burst. And potentially done this with that or numerous other behaviours.

Good advice and tip, ZZ. Helping a friend out with her somewhat longer haired dogs and their nails (using the Dremel) I used the toe end of fine fish-net stockings. Slips over the foot and the nails poke out but the hair is held back. Needs to be held firm and taught though else the stocking itself can get caught up. Not at all .

But it's not the dogs choice, it's yours as an owner and the dogs need to comply with it. It's part of everyday handling and routine care of the dog. I'm amazed, although I shouldn;t be, at the number of owners who allow their dogs to get away with such things. Brushing and nail clipping are the simplist of tasks, yet many dogs seem to rule the roost when it comes to them. I am sure there would be groomers around with experiences in the clipping of Ridgy nails and different opinions than mine, but I find that a Ridgy's nails become much like tree trunks and often don't have that skinny growth at the end of their nail that many other dogs do and which is the part that is what is clipped off. As a result, the squeeze that is applied by dog nail clippers before the actual clip is made causes considerable pressure to the dog's quick and would be painful. My previous girl "Kal" (bhcs) came to me as a 7yo and she would squeal, yelp and scream the house down even before I applied the nail clippers. At the time I presumed an unfortunate experience with them. I switched over to a Dremel and after a short while Kal began to even take a snooze whilst I trimmed her nails in that fashion. With my current boy (again, a Ridgy) I introduced the nail clippers to him as a puppy. Absolutely no bad experiences and when he was much younger his nails didn't have that thicker, larger, rounder shape to them. I was able to clip off the little (typically) sharp ends quite easily whilst he laid relaxed on his trampoline bed. As he matured, his nails became tougher, larger and more solid and he began to reveal signs of discomfort/pain. I didn't bother with persisting with the nail clippers. I already had the dremel and I have no problems with that with him.

Yeah - but I'm making the suggestion that persistance of a behaviour in the presence of extinction (so to speak) isn't necessarily an indicator of a lack of adaptability/behavioural flexibility in response to your OP. However .... Depends on why the dog is persistent. If however you are asserting that in this hypothetical dog's instance its persistance is undoubtedly due to a lack of adaptability/behavioural flexibility, then I could imagine where new and novel experiences may be more difficult for the dog to adapt to. IMO

I would expect that as to whether it relates to stress may depend on what the persisting behaviour is. Also may depend on previous experience/learning in the dog's life and the dog's relationship with its owner, assuming that the owner is a part of the equation.

I'm about to close off, but wish to extend my best wishes for Rascal's recovery. It must be such a worry and I know that it helps to receive responses from DOL to support you through the stressful time. There's a few questions I have (alas, not much in terms of answers, which I know is what you would be most interested in). These are along the lines of (1) What tests have the Vets conducted and what have they ruled out through bloods and/or xrays and ors. (2) What is his current health status? IE Is he eating and drinking yet? If not, then I'm puzzled at the possibility of him coming home to you tomorrow, although of course I hope it is that he has recovered sufficiently for this to occur. (3) What is the current treatment plan Rascal's Vets have him on and how is that going?

In my personal opinion it is best to avoid shampoos where you can and, in particular, to not use human shampoos on dogs. They strip the skin of the oils it needs and change the pH balance. Might appear to ease the itchies but the skin goes into over-drive to correct the counter-balance the shampoo has sent it in and the pendulum to recovery goes way too far the other side. Before you know it, there's the big chance that you'll be thinking you need to shampoo again. Calendula Tea - get it from your Health Food Store and brew it up as a dab/spray on (if there are just select areas of skin that is dry and/or irritated) or as a mini-bath, where you can wet your dog all over. Calendula Tea is antibacterial, soothing, antifungal and does not alter the natural pH level of the skin. Many are quite surprised at the beneficial effects of this otherwise benign sounding and looking treatment. If you haven't already, you might like to take the opportunity to explore why your dog's system is sensitive to seasonal allergens and perhaps discover things that can help to strengthen your dog's body's resolve to cope with them better. Diet can be one thing. Sometimes thyroid is another. There are more and sometimes it can be (too) difficult to work through, but it is worth (IMO) giving some thought to as any improvement has to be a bonus .

I have the Veterinary line Royal Canin called (I think) "Sensitivity Control". I say "I think" because as the kibble level went down, I cut the top off the bag so I didn't have so much bag to reach into. Unfortunately, that cut the name off, but I'm quite sure that's what it is called. Also, unfortunately, I cut off the ingredients list, but on the front it says "Blue Whiting & Tapioca" and I'm quite certain it has no grain including no corn and no soy and reasonably certain there is no other meat product. I'm sorry that I can't be more specific. I have fed the RC Sensitivity (over-the-counter line) before but I do not recall the ingredients list. I'm sure there would be other DOLers who do and have fed the "in-store" RC "Sensitive" and who will be able to be of more assistance to you. But if not, try ringing a store that sells it - I'm sure they'll be happy to read it to you over the telephone.

That's why a lot of people are using head collars in conjunction with reward-based behaviour modification. Maybe not so many people here, but I know behaviourists in Australia that recommend them and it is also recommended in the literature by practising vet behaviourists. They are considered a superior tool for control because you can control the head. Before everyone jumps on me about dogs lunging on head collars, it is usually a setup involving two leashes or a double-ended leash. Linda Tellington-Jones has a method of walking up the leash to the head when a dog is teetering on the edge of reacting. But if the dog is wearing a tool that delivers punishments automatically, don't you run the risk of that happening by accident? Control and punishment are not mutually exclusive any more that punishment and reward is. When a dog is in a fearful state they become very sensitive to negative stimuli. It's adaptive, so they can learn quickly the things they need to avoid in the future. Prongs are, as far as I can tell, quite a nicely designed tool for precision feedback, but personally, I'd rather have absolute control of both rewards and punishers if I can. Corvus - I'm unclear at what you are suggesting here so need to check. Are you saying that head-collars don't deliver a punishment where PPCollars do, in the circumstances mentioned here?

It would be extremely rare for a dog to prove to have HyPER Thyroidism. Cats with thyroids out of whack are normally HyPER and dogs with thyroids out of whack are normally HyPO. Having a thyroid which is not functioning to optimum is not uncommon (as per Lappie Happy's post above) however, Lappie Happy, the problem with the Aussie Laboratory Tests is that they are not as thorough as those conducted in the USA. In addition to that, the guage for analysis is also not particularly thorough, whereas Dr Jean Dodds (USA) has established base-line thyroid levels in relation to not only size of dog (which is about the only criteria used in Aussie) but also breed of dog and age of dog. I applaude the Vet who recommended bloods be drawn and sent to the USA. The cost of the test including international courier fee and local vet fee for drawing of blood (and spinning down to serum) would come to $200.00. The figure varies from one moment to the next depending on the variation in our AUS -vs- USA exchange rate. To the OP : What part of the thyroid test showed a value of "10" ???

ain't that the truth Hi Crisovar. I hope the above isn't directed at me. I have a different story and not one I'm inclined to publicly publish. My situation only serves as evidence that sometimes the breeder hasn't met even the most basic of expectations. By percentage, this is likely to be in the minority and should not tar all breeders as I know from speaking with many other people that there are a good number of excellent ones out there.

Looks pretty natty. But would want a solid anchor if one is thinking about using it as shelter down at KCC Park with its roaring winds, LOL.

Yeah - I getcha, Steve. And those very same thoughts ran through my mind as I wrote my previous post. No - I would not want my dog to go back to his original breeder, was my first thought. But on the otherhand, let's hypothesise that it wasn't about me being ill and preparing just in case of the worst. What if my dog somehow through some misfortune made his way into the hands of the RSPCA? Would I rather him be under their jurisdiction and his fate in their hands? No sirreee, I would not. Better chance, I think, if he were returned to the Breeder. But, if a Covenant was possible, then a general standard one to be accepted might be something along the lines of the dog being returned to the Breeder in the absence of the rightful owner being able to name an alternate owner. Obviously I've worded this as basic context - it would need to be worded more thoroughly so that intent could not be misconstrued.