Erny

Thanks for accepting my 'pick up' in the well-meaning spirit intended, Huski . Hey - I'm going to butt out and not dominate this thread beyond what I have already, but before I do, one more thing to say and that is that I spent a few hundred in purchasing documents via Freedom of Information. The documents I sought and purchased related to when the Victorian Labor Government banned the use of the PPCollar (despite the many objections submitted). Back then I figured that whilst I could not fathom through my own experience or the experience I knew of others around me, why on earth a law could outright ban a training tool that had done nothing but help in training ..... there had to be something I was unaware of. Once I got the documents from FOI I spent countless hours ploughing through them. And that is when the ONLY thing of such relevance that I could find was when the Labor Government itself stated there was "no recorded evidence of harm" from the use of the PPCollar.

Completely agree. I wrote to the Customs department who had wording on their website to the effect of (quoting from memory) the collars being designed to pierce the dog's neck. I wrote to the Customs department asking where they had the evidence to establish and state that this is what the collars were designed to do and did. I was unable to obtain an answer other than to tell me a certain person within their department said it but they would not respond to my request for where that person obtained that information. False and/or misleading propaganda was much used as a devious way of lulling people into supporting those who nay-sayed the PPCollar. I guess you have to use that when there is no factual evidence or reason to support an anti-campaign.

Huski - with all due respect, I think there is mis-wording that you've used. Liken "pain" to "discomfort". The PPCollar causes discomfort or pain. The Head Collar causes discomfort or pain. No-pull Harnesses cause discomfort or pain. A pop on a flat collar can cause discomfort or pain. If there were no discomfort (or pain) then there would be no reason why a dog would respond to it. There is "no recorded evidence of harm" cause through the use of the PPCollar. But I don't think "pain" is the correct word to include and indeed does go outside the actual quote given by the Victorian Labor Government. Hope you don't mind me picking up on this, but I think the accuracy of it bears considerable importance and needs to be corrected (pardon the pun) early, before it becomes a twist of words that carries through far into the discussion.

More complex than you might think. Corisol levels fluctuate with any stress .... even when simply learning a trick off lead and 'naked'. So, if the dog was wearing a PPCollar and was corrected, how do you know that the cortisol fluctuation had anything to do with the correction, and nothing to do with something the dog saw, thought, anticipated. Cortisol fluctuates as a result of excitement too. So, for a research study you need control groups. You also need dogs who have been trained the same way and with same or at the very least, very similar temperaments. Perhaps same breed, even. To provide a research study for what initially might seem such a simple thing, you need at least in the vicinity of $40,000.00 to fund it. Anyone got that sort of dough they could volunteer?

Not in Queensland (at this stage). Yes - if you are an accepted importer you can import PPCollars. The only place in Australia where they are illegal to use by law, is Victoria. There are some groups who do not permit their use on their grounds or at their sanctioned events. But that does not constitute "illegal" in the formal sense of the word.

The APDT rejected my membership on the basis that I publicly campaigned for our current Victorian Law (which bans the use of the PPCollar aka "pinch" collar) to be changed to allow (at least with restrictions) the use of the PPCollar in the training of dogs and that I support the good use of the e-collar (which I could go on to discuss but that's not the point of this thread so will leave it there). APDT sent an A4 letter to every MP in Australia, which letter basically condensed to read that it did not approve of the PPCollar. It referenced to a book put out by the American Humane Society called "Guide to Humane Dog Training". This to those who read their letter would suggest that the American Humane Society did not consider the PPCollar as a training aid to be humane, but to those who would have bothered to go to the length, breadth and trouble to purchase the book would know that it actually said "the Prong Collar is an alternate humane training restraint". For those interested, you might want to go have a casual read through this thread : PPCollar discussion And for anyone who posts here I think it would be reasonable to be asked why your stance is against the use of the PPCollar on any dog in any circumstance. It is already clear and held in writing by the Victorian Labor Government that "there is NO recorded evidence of harm" caused by the prong collar and of course many have recognised the very good use of it (even in cases compared to the training tools heralded by those who decry the use of the PPCollar, so for anyone to make a blanket comment that they are against the use of the PPCollar, one would be excused for thinking you have a knowledgeable reason for that opinion and would most likely like to hear it.) It is not a collar that is best for every dog (although in my experience it suits a greater % than I have seen by comparison to the eg. head collar) but that should not be sufficient enough reason to prescribe a total ban.

Thanks cavNrott. I think I like the sound of the ProDen one - natural based. I have a blanket preference (generally speaking) to things being included in food rather than water. It doesn't matter too much if a dog is put off its food because of an additive, but I don't like the idea of additives being put in drinking water - opening up the possibility of the dog not drinking as much as it might, or not being able to choose instinctively to avoid something that might not be favourable for it in other ways. Not saying you are wrong - I guess I've always thought that way but have become even more particular about it with the experience my own current boy's digestive difficulties/problems have taught me.

Thanks Oakway. I'd be very interested to know of your opinion on the Swedish product (I do wonder of the difference between that and the one from USA that CavNrott purchases) although I may not be able to make myself be quite that patient and there is a good chance I'll be ordering it before you've had a chance to trial it.

Is it different to the one CavNrott refers to? I'm interested in the product for my boy too. Not sure how tolerant he would be in relation to its ingestion, but who knows .... it might even be a good thing. I'm struggling to keep his teeth clean - back teeth are the biggest problem. Doing all the teeth cleaning etc.

Although so much credit is entitled to those surrounding and supporting Gary and Banjo through the times when each needed, I think Gary is an incredibly humble person who has demonstrated incredible strength to get through and recover from his injuries. A strength that was anchored to the love he held for Banjo. And Banjo, the strength to carry forward from his own bad start in life found in the steady trust he found in Gary. I had not heard Gary and Banjo's story before hearing it at the MDBA Choice Awards evening in March this year, but this is what I deduced from Gary's wonderful response to receiving his deserved award and I found my eyes watering along with numerous others. My condolences, Gary. RIP Banjo

If it were me, I'd still go the route to at least ruling out thyroid as being the culprit. Mainly because this is often the easiest to treat and often the most successfully. That aside, have you or your Vet considered nasodigital hyperkeratosis?

I have heard similar, K9Angel, but haven't built sufficient confidence to go that way - mainly due to not knowing or understanding the quantities and what exactly is required to establish a correct level. I will never rule 'natural' out .... I prefer to go that way as many would probably have gathered, if I have reason to believe with confidence that it is better. Dr Jean Dodds is certainly not against natural remedies. Blueberries, Tumeric, Oregano ... all these things have been mentioned to me as things I can try to aid my dog's digestive woes. But for thryoid she prescribes the formal medication and I can't see her doing that if it wasn't what she too was the more confident in. With thyroid, you need to dose accurately to attain the correct thyroid (which is a hormone) level so I tend to err towards the formal medication for that. That's me though. Where my confidence lays. I reserve the right to change my mind one day and it might be that I just haven't done enough research on it. Please keep in touch here to let us know the results of your findings but I do highly recommend that the thyroid tests be done via Dr Jean Dodds and not here in Australia. ETA: Whilst it would be lovely to find out that your dog's problem was something as basic as (eg) contact with a rare weed that you were able to eradicate, thyroid (if proven to be the issue) is at least easily, fairly cheaply and generally successfully medicated, so I'd not lose too much sleep sweating that "thyroid" might be the cause.

Thyroid? Perhaps send the pictures to Dr Jean Dodds and ask her opinion. In the interim, perhaps try bathing the paw and the skin lesions with Calendula Tea brew on an initially frequent basis and then, as they improve, easing back. Running blood tests wouldn't go astray either, but as for thyroid, if you're going to get that done, I'd not waste time or money by running them here .... I'd run those through Dr Jean.

Dose your dog up with Active Manuka Honey (20+ or higher is preferable). It is not cheap, but I have found it to be very helpful. It has antibacterial qualities - good for the immune system and soothes and helps heal the throat. Avoid going out and about with your dogs for the reason Woofen has mentioned, but also to keep stress levels to a minimum (excitement is a form of stress, as is learning). My boy had Canine Cough recently. I watched his demeanour, his eyes, his energy levels and listened to the cough. It wasn't a bad dose of CC - the cough lasted for about 3-4 days maximum and wasn't terribly frequent. He recovered quickly and well without the necessity for a Vet visit, the AMH soothing the throat very efficiently. His period of convalescence and 'quarantine' coincided with my convalescence when I came out of hospital, so that worked out conveniently, but I would have kept him in and taken it gently and easily for a period beyond symptoms disappearing. I'm not a Vet.

I put my previous (avatar) girl "Kal" (bhcs) on it and she did brilliantly on it. My current boy did well on the pre-made ($$xy) stuff and did well on it for about 7 months, and then rejected it. But his digestive issues are complex and I do not consider his rejection of VAN to be an indicator that the food is not good. I have known many dogs who have improved vastly on the VAN Complete Mix. When, one day, I have another dog, I'd be inclined to try the VAN along (of course) with other foods that would comprise a good natural diet.

As far as the washing/bathing is concerned, I'd recommend you stop using shampoos and bath the dog using Calendula Tea. You can do this by steeping a good amount of it (encased in the foot of a tied off stocking) in a couple of inches of very very hot water in a tub - wait until water has cooled to tepid before putting dog in - or brewing a smaller amount and using a saturated flannel to wet through to the dog's skin. Yes - you do need to try to work out what is causing the skin issues/allergic reactions, but in the meantime, using shampoos tends to strip the skin of protective oils and changes skin pH levels. This can swing the dog's system into corrective over-drive and this can actually exacerbate the skin problems, regardless of the original cause.

Thank you ZA. Didn't think about the outer skin :rolleyes:. Will mash it next time.

Yay Andisa. I'm here, but not regularly. Getting better but a bit like a car with an unreliable engine that needs a bit more tinkering (ie time) to improve. Glad you put your post in about the Calendula.

But is it really? Carrots will go through a dog in chunks, does not mean the dog has a digestion problem. Sorry to butt in here and take this slightly OT to something I've been curious about with my own dog. Carrots coming out in chunks the other end after ingestion I can understand. They have a 'woody' nature to them and dogs (I believe) don't have the enzymes to begin the 'break-down' of vegetables, which is why we normally talk about beginning the process by freezing and defrosting; using a blender or juicer etc. But something that surprised me a bit was when I gave my boy some cooked peas as an "extra" (treat) and noticed that many of them came through whole after passing through the digestive system. Only difference was that they looked a little older and slightly more wrinkled. But I admit I didn't expect them to pass quite so untouched. I too did think this pointed to digestive issues that I yet haven't uncovered (most would know I've been working on this for a long time). But I'd like to put my musing up here so someone might tell me that the passing of whole cooked peas could also be a normal and expected occurrence ???

Thanks Perse - I didn't pick up on the "recent change" comment.

It's a behaviour, not necessarily something to indicate a health issue. If your friend finds the stopping so frequently annoying, let her know she can take control of the walk - she doesn't have to stop every time her dog wants to. Just make sure she knows her dog has had the opportunity to empty his bladder in the early stage of the walk (even at the beginning) and let him stop each third of the walk (that's what I tend to do when I go the 12klm walk) or half way if the walk is considerably shorter.

I completely concur with DancinBcs. We need to remember we should put ourselves out to take into account how the dogs would feel rather than make the assumption they feel as we would feel and 'dress' them to make us feel more comfortable. But as far as PJ's are concerned, I highly recommend Meg. She has helped me with PJ's for my single coated Ridgeback who used to flap his ears to wake me up so I'd pull his blanket back over him during the night, after it had fallen off.

I've only just come back online after being 'out' for a few days. I am so sorry for your loss, JulesP. No matter the words, it would have and still continue to be incredibly hard to comprehend, to endure. Yes, the pain will at least become more bearable over time, but even knowing that right now doesn't do much to ease the pain right now, so just nurse your heart, let yourself cry freely when you need, and store strength that you would gain from that which the other of your dogs offer, along with the joy of their lives. RIP Brock

Aidan - I saw a client's GSD who'd been prescribed Chlomicalm. I couldn't see the dog's true behaviour when I saw it as all it wanted to do was sleep or drape itself on the floor. This was within at least the last 12 months if not within the last 6 months.

The Calendula Tea (which is also an antibacterial wash) is purchased from a Health Food Store. The antiseptic wash I used I happens chance to already have (ie the Vets All Natural brand - although I'm not sure they make it anymore). I stupidly used Cetrigen (purple) Spray once - it was very good but I didn't give much thought to the stains it initially left on my floor before the spray dried :rolleyes: .