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CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIEL MMVD PROBLEM If I could mention , here is the Link that gave figure of nearly 100% of Cavaliers having MMVD at 10 years of Age www.eurolupa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8 Bet Hargreaves "WP2.2 Myxomatous mitral valve disease (MMVD) - Leader : University of Copenhagen Primary mitral valve prolapse (MVP also called Barlows disease) is a common disorder in human characterized by systolic displacement or billowing of the mitral leaflets into the left atrium, often accompanied by mitral regurgitation. It has many characteristics similar to MMVD in dogs. MVP is genetically heterogeneous and is inherited as an autosomal dominant trait that exhibits both sex- and age-dependent penetrance. Several loci for mitral valve prolapse (MVP) have been mapped: MMVP1 to chromosome 16p; MMVP2 to chromosome 11p, and MMVP3 to chromosome 13q but due to the limited number of informative individuals/families available no causal genes and mutations have been identified for the corresponding loci. Recently, mutations in filamin A were incriminated in X-linked cases. MMVD is the most common heart disease in dogs. The disease is also known as endocardiosis or chronic valvular disease. It typically evolves in three stages: (i) mitral valve prolapse or thickening of the valve without regurgitation, (ii) mitral regurgitation in the absence of other signs of heart failure, (iii) heart failure. It is easily diagnosed using auscultation and echocardiography. MMVD is characterized by a clear breed predisposition, most often in small to medium size breeds. Nearly 100% of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (CKCS) suffer from the condition at 10 years of age, while approximately 50% Dachshund have MMVD at the same age. The aim of this study is the identification of genetic factors responsible for the development of MMVD in dogs." sooo if they say so. Its gospel is it? ummm, must be my vet is incompetent then eh? think i'm going to cut and print this, his reaction might be interesting

check out this guys online magazine video of ruths cattle n calves taken before n after n check out the beaver story. ""ONLY ENVIRONMENT ENGINEERS OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COULD DO THIS" BEAVER'S UNDER THREAT OF JAIL FOR BUILDING DAMS IN USA" definately a tuesday funny http://www.sosnews.org/

and yearly testing all and every one u intend breeding from and when one crops up like the 8 yr old girl, out went her's that i had kept for breeding, as pets only and told their new owners why they were going as pets . n those who had her pups were all warned, although as none have come back to me to say they had developed it young or had problems since? maybe i did a bit of overkill. but when u want to reduce the incidence of something like that, this is how i see it as the way to go but documenting every year. so many get one doppler done and are gaily advertising their dog is tested and "free", well its only valid for they day it was done according to my vet anyway so that test was for that year only kiddo it aint a lifetime "free" test as so many seem to think

how i lucked onto my lot, i had been told cavaliers tended to live to 8 so i went looking for breeder with dogs over 11, pribar had two that were 12 and 13. ok i didnt know about mitral, but hey she had old dogs, and fit as fiddles so that who i went with. trouble is finding someone like that. the othe girl was pure luck, i as approached for a mating to jack, and got a pup from the litter, check out her website, the mum lived to 13 and so has her daughter, i rehomed her ages ago last i heard from her owner was she was 14 n still fine although her last vet check for mitral was at 12 after that she hasnt bothered

before you all go freaking off into the night. of my 5 original cavaliers , 4 were free of any signs of MMVD at 8,,9,10,11,12. one only diagnosed at 8. (she was pet homed to the owner of one of her pups and was still going no medication needed at 11 last i heard from her owner) so that to my bad maths made my purchases 4/5th of em free of it at 12? in the case of Zambuna Cav King Jack he was still hanging in there, n hadnt shrugged off the mortal coil at 15, although (according to the lady i had given him too) he had been pinched by the owners flatmate so no further info as to testing after 12. so that doesnt look like 100 percent incidence to this idiot anyway? three bitches, two of em spot on hearts, n the one with it starting at 8) came from Pribar Kennels and Edenridge Summer Shower was a daughter of Gaycrest Eboni Mist. although i loaned her back to Edenridge and think it was 14 puppies were bred to choose a "show" pup. to my knowledge and belief every single one bar the two i got back were limit registered n pet sold. so no hope of using that line if your looking for MMVD free line. dont know if Pribar is still going. i dont show and after all the crap and risk of ever selling on main register. (check out the pup return for refund because its adult teeth didnt come through as perfect as its puppy teeth? mind u it did win 2 challenges before its return but hey it might not make champion sooooooo n it is main so that meant it would ) no main registers will be available from me anymore. reading that adorable story about the $25,000 cat's vet bills. my first thought was pity the poor bugger who bred it if it had been a registered animal Cavalier's MMVD Heart Problem I know that there will be Cavaliers living to a Normal Age, but until the MMVD Genes are found ,it will not be known if those Cavaliers could be MMVD Carriers. In Britain Cavalier were known to have Died from Heart Trouble in the 1940's and 1950's. It is possible that some of the Cavaliers exported Abroad could have had those Genes from those days . All that is known ,that the MMVD Problem is serious for Cavaliers, and this is why those Genes have to be discoverd. This is the same reason that the Genes for SM in Cavaliers have to be found, . If the Genes are not found for both MMVD and SM the Cavalier Breed could be having a Bleak Outlook for their Future. Bet Hargreaves has it possibly occured to anyone that before dna technology came onto the scene, breeders can detect defective genes and eliminate them? how did these ancient backward people mange the impossible? oddly enough some mugs figured out some genes they didnt want cropping up were dominate and they were easy peasy to get rid of, dont breed from em. they even stupid as they were as well as backward, even figured some genes were recessive and when they popped up both parent were to blame. even in the icelandic 60's genticists had that figured out and even had plans in place to test which males carried the defective genes. not having the wonder dna tool, they used a totaly unethical method. they put aside all females that had produced effected ofspring, these were test mated to the potential males for the next generation, and only the males who did not sire any affected offspring to the carrier females got the opportunity to sire the next generation. done for 6, ideally 12 generations, an odd thing happened. subsequent test matings failed to produce any affected or carriers discovered, impossible u say. surely maybe u are right, nothing like that could be achieved without dna specific tests, certainly not by any ethical breeder, no ethical person would knowingly use a known carrier for breeding. n thus no ethical breeder could eliminate a defective gene without dna. soooooo only ethical breeders wait for the wonder dna test to arrive and pick out their breeding stock for the future. but? if ethical breeders dont breed till the dna test is available, n it takes 4 or 5 years down the track? or worse case scenario 7 or 10? unless theres a lot of fertalised frozen embroyos to implant in something there wont be any breeding stock still fertile? so? where does that put cavalier breeders? breed and your decidedly unethical catch 22

yes your probably right. the ones i had stumbled onto that didnt develop it are no use for breeding a strain that might have a better chance of not developing it. without the dna test to PROVE they havnt the defective gene they are of no possible use or worth or preserving. being cavaliers they must have it eh? why not just bann people from breeding cavaliers until the dna test is found?

what does that make string? alive, yes. one piece, no (two skin plugs removed and stitches instead) healthy, no (pnemonia n trachael tear, according to my vet n 500 later to save him) soooo what does one tick n two crosses come to in the equation

before you all go freaking off into the night. of my 5 original cavaliers , 4 were free of any signs of MMVD at 8,,9,10,11,12. one only diagnosed at 8. (she was pet homed to the owner of one of her pups and was still going no medication needed at 11 last i heard from her owner) so that to my bad maths made my purchases 4/5th of em free of it at 12? in the case of Zambuna Cav King Jack he was still hanging in there, n hadnt shrugged off the mortal coil at 15, although (according to the lady i had given him too) he had been pinched by the owners flatmate so no further info as to testing after 12. so that doesnt look like 100 percent incidence to this idiot anyway? three bitches, two of em spot on hearts, n the one with it starting at 8) came from Pribar Kennels and Edenridge Summer Shower was a daughter of Gaycrest Eboni Mist. although i loaned her back to Edenridge and think it was 14 puppies were bred to choose a "show" pup. to my knowledge and belief every single one bar the two i got back were limit registered n pet sold. so no hope of using that line if your looking for MMVD free line. dont know if Pribar is still going. i dont show and after all the crap and risk of ever selling on main register. (check out the pup return for refund because its adult teeth didnt come through as perfect as its puppy teeth? mind u it did win 2 challenges before its return but hey it might not make champion sooooooo n it is main so that meant it would ) no main registers will be available from me anymore. reading that adorable story about the $25,000 cat's vet bills. my first thought was pity the poor bugger who bred it if it had been a registered animal

n just off the top of my own head i know 4 people can tell the same story of how they were treated n only one of em was actually charged the treatment is pretty accurate from their accounts too

i recommend you make the time to read the lot. this guy had done it the right way. no hysterics just the truth is its damming n sadly true and will continue until maybe some day some one with guts will actually do something and make the bastards answerable, its not a big ask its called democracy. anyone remember that?? its factual, its true its got to get out there.

this should be mandatory reading for every politican being pressured to GIVE US MORE POWER CRAP WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO RUTH DOWNEY they have been doing for decades and no one will listen to the victums. all they get is "u must have deserved it."

http://sosnews.org/pdf/The-Ruth-Downey-Inquisition.pdf emailed to me,

Id say so - other similar studies have shown people stay in breeding for an average of around 6 years so it looks like this is backing that up. What it means though is that the majority of people who are breeding are at the low end of the experience end. true but try helping them, the majority are polite but not interested, they know it all. read the standard, have the books. who do u think u are? even the nice ones, leave me breathless, just listening to em, selecting "bloodlines" like they think its a cake receipe. one of the reasons the ones ive seen jump, is discovering not all puppies turn out healty and sound. one or two and they get rattled, "ethical breeders dont get this happen" the breeder i got mine from mustnt have been ethical so that ones name becomes mud, n if they are sensitatve they too give up and out. so out goes the dogs, in comes a "better one" usually at great cost, testing etc, n something else gets found, orr whelping problems and one too many midnight runs to the vet sorts a lot out too.

although you spoken well, the last words "but it does take time" do give the idea that in time all genetic disasters can be eliminated. it aint going to happen in our lifetimes if ever. nature likes change, even now mutations are being detected, recent mutations so how long is a piece of string

thanks for that. how distressing for those with labs although i expect there are just as nasty ones hiding in most breeds, sadly deletrious genes have been found lurking in every organism not just dogs. who would have thought a dwarfism gene would be hiding in the massive fresian horses? n how hard its been to eradicate the chestnut gene, no problem for the one born chestnut, BUT like the coloured border collie for so many hundreds of years just not allowed. wonder if a chestnut fresian registery might get off the ground, there is a studbook for red angus now. n lucky days for any non black n white borders born today, they get to grow up WITH rego papers, can even be a show dog? how things have changed eh but it just goes to show how hard it is to eliminate just a recessive gene for an unwanted colour

:D oh no.....I'm besmirched....woof..... fifi ooopss sorry Fifi........... :D I have no problem with advertising of a Stud Dog in a doggy magazine, internet etc. I enjoy looking at ads. I have a problem with those who actively chase up stud work for their dogs by direct contact. Angelsun I agree, I see it as pimping! shock horror, FIFI'S name needs to be removed immediately, poor fifs talk about lack of privacy? had a funny conversation about this just last week. attended a seminar on cancer research and three out of 6 dogs declared beyond veterinary help with brain cancers were still alive 1 to 2 years later with no detectable tumurs via mri scans, all but matilda had their names deleted (hers had missed the delete button somehow, well so far) as the lecturer had been told recently it was an invasion of privacy to make the patients names public? even dogs :) somehow id be thinking they owners would be over the moon with delight? what would others think? n to think we can see dogs being saved but its not available for humans yet. umm come to think of it, if your in melbourn, n been pronouced beyond help your doc can get u referred to one of the three hospitals that are now commencing trials soo its limping into the human sphere finally

although come to think of it, isnt ollie waffle asking just the same as the rspca and the lobby groups??? perfection in every "PUPPY PRODUCT" produced/born? the defination of "pedigree" is not too subtly changing from the original known meaning of parentage known to "perfect product" or the manufacturer/breeder is unethical. pity mum nature hasnt got the message faulty genes are not an option anymore i know, ive taken back a puppy whose digusting fault is although it had perfectly aligned puppy teeth, its adult bottom teeth have come in angled forward? why? havnt a clue, the baby teeth were perfect, the jaw line is correct, BUT the adult bottoms are definately angled forwards as if pushed from behind and the look is made even more so as they are at sixes n sevens not evenly leaning forwards. nothing else wrong with it, no dreadful genetic faults, lovely type, enough to win in the ring. but , no longer perfect, return to sender . in olly's case is complaining after refusing to return to sender?

I did a google as ocd to me means obsessive compulsive disorder. so added the word dwarf and came up with this link? http://friesian-crazy.tripod.com/health.html which led me to this link http://www.dragonflyacres.ca/ as well as this "Osteochondritis Dissecans (OCD) OCD is a degenerative joint disease ( a type of developmental orthopaedic disease or DOD) usually found in young, rapidly growing horses who will eventually mature to over 15 hands. As may be expected, Friesians can be prone to the disease, simply due to their size. OCD occurs when cartilage at the end of growing bones, instead of hardening into bone, begins to break down. As a result of this break-down, small bits of cartilage may break completely or partially off and harden into bone cysts, which irritate the area of the joint, causing a build up of fluid (swelling), and pain (lameness). OCD can be identified by lameness or swelling commonly in the hocks, stifles and fetlocks of young horses, especially those who have recently entered training or become more active, putting more stress on their growing joints. OCD can also cause locking stifles. Although OCD is commonly identified by a lameness, in some cases there may be no obvious symptoms, in which case the problem will likely clear up on it's own. The cause of OCD has been linked to nutrition, particularly mineral imbalances, as well as trauma from excessive physical exercise. The disease is also thought to be at least somewhat genetically inheritable. OCD can be officially diagnosed by x-rays and other veterinary procedures. Once determined that a lameness is in fact caused by OCD, traditional treatment options include joint injections, stall rest and a change in diet, or surgery to remove the floating bone fragments from the joint. Left untreated, OCD can cause significant, long-term joint damage, and the fullness of recovery after treatment varies depending upon the individual." so "thought" to be at least somewhat genetically inheratable is a HUGE difference to both parents gave it. odd u dont mention the linked to nutrition, particularly mineral imblances????? n trauma. ive a friend put through this, yep the pup was a lab, yep the vet the owner took it too intended taking them to the cleaners for the ops planned. think the figure was 6,000. she took it to her vet for a second opinion and suprise suprise, it weighed more than its 5 yr old mum at 8 months and had fractures of both elbows, due it was discovered from the owners child, it had jumped from a second floor verandah. n yes the owners vet had said the damage was genetic........? n yes curious how registered breeders are supposed to be able to prevent imperfections of every possible kind, yet human parent's cant guarantee their child impunity from imperfection either???? just be careful ollie waffle, once the axe is nice and sharp, dont drop it on your foot

yep tough isnt it your right though, its sad that such a small few can cause so much pain u tend to forget they are the minority oddly enough daughter has never been bitten by a dog though she grew up surrounded by em, mostly cattledogs. since this area u need em round the house if u dont want to find your been "visited" only this weekend 5 of my neighbours were robbed while they slept. i kid u not. all we can figure was it was odd the ones left alone had dogs eh? we are all glad none of them woke up, considering what can happen during home invasions eh? apparently the fridges and freezers were all stripped food thrown everywhere n anything else of value n quickly carried gone. didnt now people kept money in fridges n freezers? anyway thats what they think they were looking for

yep tough isnt it

"The human race is such a kind, compassionate species that we tend to look at our canine companions as little humans. When in reality, they are canines and have a very different thought process. This is what differentiates mankind from other species in pack societies; there must be a specific order, from the leader on down to the last follower. Everyone has a place. The leaders are the strength of the pack. The followers need the leader to guide them. This primal instinct keeps the pack secure and happy." who wrote that? i gather they didnt know about 9 11 or hitler or any of the atrocities man has inflicted on their fellows, since the dawn of the race. from what ive seen cruelty to their own species is inherit to the human race, if you doubt that just watch the schoolyard. manners is parents attempts to make them safe to interact with their playmates kick, bite, scratch, n thats just the psyical attacks without going into the mental damage of bullying? never forget the dreadful day a friends son bit my daughters fingers to the bone, he was 18 months she was 3 months younger and seatbelted in, he reached across and took her hand and his mum thought how cute hes holding her hand, before we had an inkling what he had in mind he pulled her hand to face and bit, he wouldnt let go, his mother had to prise his teeth apart. turned out another child had been biting him at daycare she later learned. yep loving gentle race homo sapeins all right, belive that and u belive in fairies too. theres some seriously sick sapiens puppies out there unfortunately

HI Jed havnt dropped in for ages but always thinking of you and praying for your recovery. so happy your are feeling better, i just bought an awesome candle from a friend. its lilac and scented, about to light it again for you, first run was last night, can only burn it while im with it she warned me never to leave it while burning. just simply love the puppies. never seen a white boxer before even though ive heard they turn up. poor guy didnt even notice him, seems nice though certainly seems to have a sense of humour.

you have a point. my brothers and i grew up with dogs, i wheeled a foxy in my pram, i never was allowed past the front gate without blue the cattledog being beside me. the guard dogs my dad and his brothers had bought for one reason only. Savage. most of them tended to be german shepherds. although the blue cattles usually turned out the friendliest n smartest. n tended to be kept at granddads. the funniest thing was how quickly the dogs learned it was ok to let people walk in, it was ok to let em walk out, long as they werent carrying anything. the rule was dad or his brothers would load your goods in your vehicle n u were fine. dont carry anything yourself or the dogs would have u. n it was amazing how quick the cattledogs learned that? they had a building supply company and there were no security alarms in the 40's n 50's there were four of us born and lived beside the business (before we moved when i was about 13) and never once were any of us bitten by the guard dogs, there were usually two in granddads place, n most of em arrived cross chained, we learned from a very early age, dont touch the guard dog, well until they got to settle in and know us. blue was so savage my dad and his brothers were petrified of him, but he loved mum and he soon decided if we were mum's then yep hed guard us too. whenever i was sent on an errand it was with blue beside me, the funniest thing was anyone comming the other way on the footpath always crossed the road to go past us. blue had a rule. no comming within 20 foot , the teeth would become easier and easier to see the closer they came, none kept comming, they all heeded the warning and crossed the road. although the most savage went to the quarry n we wernt allowed out of the truck there until dad had put them away. one was so savage it was funny to see the game dad played to get him locked up without being munched. he had it down pretty well. although a few years down the track they were on reasonable terms dont think i can remember dad ever patting that one though. come to think of it all the quarry dogs i can remember were german shepherds? the funniest thing ever happend was the vet came to give em all their distemper shots and after he finished dad picked up his bag to carry it to the car, n he insisted only he carry his bag. dad explained that he would be bitten if he didnt let dad carry the bag. vet got huffy and said no dog had ever bitten him and headed for his car. then had the hide to demand dad pay for a new suit because blue had taken the backside out of his pants and ripped his coat.... dad laughed for months, well years over that one ummm imagine the court case today come to think of it.

you forgot, there are heaps of ethicals who will never let anyone have a registered pup from their kennel. cant let the blood out u know? cant risk even one going to a backyarder. i know one bemoning losing decades of breeding when a family member trusted with looking after the bitches while the person went on a holiday came home to discover they all had been desexed . one came in season unexpectedly and the hubby of the household, decided this was all too much of a problem and had all three done as a job lot, cheaper by the dozen as they say. end of line. n because nothing had ever been passed on with papers no where to ask for a pup in the next litter. just go read the dogzonline puppys for sale and see the chances of getting one with papers n dont kid yourself, theres a lot who suspcribe to that thinking. so where is a closed kennel contributing to any part of a breeds future when noone else has access to them? i know my hubby doesnt want to even contemplate me letting anyone have one of my colts, hes been cutting em all for 30 years, cant get him to see, where is the line to continue, when what we have are dead and gone? so its not just dogs it happens

know what u mean steve. phil burgess of elfreda kennels had a setup that could be defined as the gold standard and that was 30 years ago, double meshed outside runs as well decades before anyone realised heartworm had arrived in sydney after cyclone tracy, none of hers were in any danger anyway. i understand they bred up round a hundred in a year. i saw more sound self whelped puppies there over the years than so many other show orientated people who despised her.