sandgrubber

Please update us when you get the bloods report. I don't want to comment before info is complete . . . other than to say that loosing weight isn't a common problem with Labbies. I would be worried that pancreatitis was a sign of pancreatic cancer (horrendous, incurable disease that progresses rapidly . . . common in dogs .. . my mother died of it) . . . not sure if bloods would show that.

Unfortunately, there isn't much market for a piece of someone's mind. I'm reminded of the old Quaker maxim: "Speak yee not in anger". Better to present a well reasoned argument and not end out with a threat-counter-threat sort of dialog. Not that I'm above 'mouthing off' myself .. . I frequently post after a few drinks and say things that probably should have been thought out further .. . . but posting on this forum isn't exactly high-impact . .. . so, presuming you stay within the bounds of civility and forum rules, it's a good way to diffuse anger. When it comes to giving input to a government project looking for input on a decision, I think it's counter-productive to let go of your temper.

Another factor working against the APBT is the name. That 'pit' thing really scares me. The most serious dog attack I've had in my boarding kennel was an APBT X Lab that looked more Lab like . .. but went for the throat of a little SBT (thanks to a flying tackle, no more harm than a few puncture wounds). I have met some very lovable Pitties, and don't support BSL for them. But I think it is necessary to have pressure kept on APBT breeders to tone down the DA and eliminate the HA tendencies sometimes manifested in this breed -- and other breeds with a history of breeding for fighting or aggression.

You'd hear of them if the Filo Brasiliero were allowed. They are 45 kg+ dogs, bred to be highly intolerant of humans outside the family. Original purpose: Capture (maim and kill acceptable) runaway slaves. Still used to protect cattle from cattle rustlers and jaguars . . . perhaps also protect children from kidnapping (kidnapping for ransom is a big thing in some areas of Brasil). They are only shown in specialty shows in the US. Require a judge that can handle a breed where it is acceptable (by breed standard) for the dog to bite the judge and unacceptable for the dog to be tolerant or (breed-standard forbid) friendly toward strangers. Obviously, feeling the testies is not safe practice. Lovely, strong mastiff-type dogs. But too dangerous for general circulation. I don't support BSL with respect to the APBT . . . but think it is sensible for any breed where the breed standard supports and requires temperament only suitable to environments where extreme human aggression or dog aggression is required. If the APBT were still being advertised as a dog suited to pit fights, I would also support BSL for the APBT.

It always goes on much longer than you think it should. . . . as everyone is telling you.

The clip below turned up under EIC in Labradors . . . mostly inviting guffaws cause it's so full of jargon. On rereading it I think it has some interesting things to say about the state of the art re epilepsy. 1. They are breeding mutant mice that are prone to partial and generalised seizures (no doubt inbreeding with very high COI). 2. the genes involved are autosomal DOMINANT (perhaps with incomplete penetrance?) 3. they're starting to get a handle on the biochemistry . . . which may yield effective, specific drugs for treating epilepsy. Of course mice aren't dogs, and there may be more than one genetic condition that leads to epilepsy. Still . . . it gives hope that they are starting to get a handle on the disease and we may someday have both tests and a quality form of treatment. Would love to see other references about recent work on genetics and biochemistry of epilepsy. I read a Danish study one time that found ~3% of Danish Labradors have seizures . . . mostly partial seizures. If this is coming from a dominant gene that isn't always expressed it has some rather confusing ramifications for breeders. http://www.pnas.org/content/106/33/14085.a...24-f1561bcfabfb Mutation I810N in the α3 isoform of Na+,K+-ATPase causes impairments in the sodium pump and hyperexcitability in the CNS Steven J. Clapcotea,b,1, Steven Duffya, Gang Xiea, Greer Kirshenbauma,c, Allison R. Becharda, Vivien Rodacker Schackd, Janne Petersend, Laleh Sinaia,c, Bechara J. Saaba,c, Jason P. Lerche, Berge A. Minassianc,e, Cameron A. Ackerleye, John G. Sledc,e, Miguel A. Cortezc,e, Jeffrey T. Hendersonc, Bente Vilsend and John C. Rodera,c + Author Affiliations aSamuel Lunenfeld Research Institute, Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, ON, Canada M5G 1X5; bInstitute of Membrane and Systems Biology, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom; cDepartments of Medical Biophysics, Medical Genetics, Paediatrics, and Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 1A1; dDepartment of Physiology and Biophysics, Centre for Membrane Pumps in Cells and Disease–PUMPKIN, Danish National Research Foundation, University of Aarhus, DK-8000 Aarhus, Denmark; and eMouse Imaging Centre, Program in Genetics and Genome Biology, and Divisions of Neurology and Pathology, Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, ON, Canada M5G 1X8 Abstract In a mouse mutagenesis screen, we isolated a mutant, Myshkin (Myk), with autosomal dominant complex partial and secondarily generalized seizures, a greatly reduced threshold for hippocampal seizures in vitro, posttetanic hyperexcitability of the CA3-CA1 hippocampal pathway, and neuronal degeneration in the hippocampus. Positional cloning and functional analysis revealed that Myk/+ mice carry a mutation (I810N) which renders the normally expressed Na+,K+-ATPase α3 isoform inactive. Total Na+,K+-ATPase activity was reduced by 42% in Myk/+ brain. The epilepsy in Myk/+ mice and in vitro hyperexcitability could be prevented by delivery of additional copies of wild-type Na+,K+-ATPase α3 by transgenesis, which also rescued Na+,K+-ATPase activity. Our findings reveal the functional significance of the Na+,K+-ATPase α3 isoform in the control of epileptiform activity and seizure behavior.

Have attempted to move the epilepsy sub thread to a new thread . . . Sorry to hear EIC fatality confirmed. It is a bit of a wake-up. Was it a US dog?

What a horrid thing to happen to an oldie. Even if he's not seriously hurt, I'm sure he's emotionally gutted. I keep hoping to read that they impounded the owner, but it never seems to happen. I hope this is treated as a serious crime. I would say having your dog killed is at least as bad as getting mugged or raped, and should be treated equally seriously. If people don't control their dogs, they should be held accountable for the outcomes.

1. I get short term insurance for puppy buyers that gives them a $100 deductible. I try not to sell to people who are cash-strapped and who are likely to end out in such a situation. Having said that: If the required surgery had something to do with the way I bred the dog, I'd refund the purchase price and not blacklist. I would probably opt for the green needle myself if a pup required expensive surgery to get out of the starting gate, even if I had cash on hand. For all I know, the pups we (most breeders) PTS for cleft palate could be saved if we were willing to put $3k into fixing the problem. I would prefer it if the puppy buyer call me to let me know what is happening before making a decision . . . sometimes vets prescribe expensive surgery that is entirely unnecessary. 2. Variations in vet fees/up front payment. BFD. I can buy carrots in a 20 kg bag from the corner gas station (horse carrots, but just fine for eating, also grrreat munchies for Labradors) at $0.35/kg . . . or I can buy slightly more perfect carrots from Wollies at (on special) $1.29/kg. That's life. You shop around. You figure out what you want to pay for and you look for the best vet you can find for what you want. You either keep cash reserves or get some form of insurance. I entirely respect vets requiring up-front payment. Breeders should avoid selling to people who are so cash strapped that they can't pay vet bills . . . or get insurance.

. . . not to mention having a litter of pups apparently get KC from the vaccine. I had 2 litters come down with KC at 8 weeks old when i had one of the adult dogs done with the intra nasal .Within 3 days of him having the vaccine all the dogs had it,2 developing pnuemonia despite being put on prophylactic AB'S straight away. Sounds like the same batch of vaccine that got my dogs. None of my adults got it, but all the pups did, and they were sick for weeks . . . worse still, it hung around to get two subsequent litters of pups. If this happened with any of the jabs they give kids there would be hell to pay. I don't know how everyone is so blase' about quality control for dog vac's.

If the trouble is that one is taking possession of the toy and the other wants it, it might be worth hanging the toy from the ceiling, slightly off the ground. This makes it quite hard for either dog to take possession. Might make things worse . . . but I think you're going to find yourself trying various things.

Not sure what training regime/protocol Righteous Pups have (ie are they like Assistance Dogs Australia who train the dog up and then pair the dog to the person?) but I can see where $29,000.00 would easily go. Take into account dog's food, vet care, insurance, housing costs and THEN take into account the hours on hours of training the dog receives before it is homed to a person needing and qualifying for an assistance dog. Think about your own (or the average) yearly wage and work out what percentage $29,000.00 represents, without forgetting how much of that $29,000.00 is not nett but would be taken up by out of pocket expenses. True, though. Assistance dogs who require specialised training do cost a lot for one person to pay out for. But it's not a lot of money in terms of time/out-lay. They are worth their weight in gold, though, IMO. I love seeing assistance dogs with their 'people'. There is a very special bond that forms between them that doesn't as often occur between dogs and able-bodied/minded people. I also love seeing assistance dogs . . . and would like to see more of them. As a Lab breeder I get occasional calls from people with austic kids who are DIY'ing it because the certified assistance dogs are so expensive and the waiting lists too long. I wish there were a more affordable way to do the training . . . especially for people whose kids have milder forms of autism and could use guidance but don't require a major investment in training. I'm not arguing and don't mean to be rude . . . I just don't understand the price tag. A quality Labrador pup is going to cost less than $2000. Keeping a pup for a year costs me around $1000, call it $2000. . . . though many assistance dogs are raised by volunteer families, so rearing costs are reduced. If the pups are put in service at one year, that still leaves $25k for training. I would think a trainer working full time could train more than four dogs a year. That comes out to a pretty good salary . . . quite a bit more than I earned as a Uni Lecturer. Maybe that's naive. Most of us aren't good at seeing the holes in our own reasoning.

In WA we have no legal requirements that I know of. However, for reasons of liability and insurance coverage, I need to see that a vet has signed off on the vaccination due date. I don't feel that decisions relating to frequency of vaccination should be made by kennel owners -- that is a vet's function. With respect to KC, it's complicated. When K9 cough goes through a kennel some of the vaccinated dogs often get it while some of the unvaccinated (for KC) don't. I recommend, but stopped requiring KC in my kennels after having been told by a couple vets that they don't use it on their own dogs; not to mention having a litter of pups apparently get KC from the vaccine. Another vet I use told me that if you really want to protect your dog from KC, get it jabbed (or nasal puffed) two weeks before taking it to kennels. Last time I read the AVA recommendations they still recommend KC as an annual shot. I'm left shaking my head. But the disease is very rarely fatal, and in many cases it is so unserious that you barely notice the two or three days the dog has a mild cough. So the outcome of making a wrong decision isn't horrible.

Please, leave in season bitches at home.

There seems to be a lot of resistence to a new vaccination regime. The AVA may have changed its policy, but they sure haven't given their members a kick in the pants, as requried to break down the long-established and lucrative practice of vaccinating annually. I run a boarding kennel. I try not to be part of the problem by telling people of the change in recommended vaccination regimes and telling them I'll accept any date the vet signs off on . . . suggesting that three years would be in line with recommendations. Everyone seems happy to get the news, but as of yet I haven't seen anyone in with their vaccination cards signed with a 'next due' date of 2012 or 2013. I think vets are still sending out their annual reminders about vaccinations.

My crystal ball says pedigree dog owners are so busy bickering among themselves that they won't do anything to stop such processes . . . though an organised group could easily make the case for 'hobby breeding' permits clear. I would like to see the breeder permit and the 'hobby breeder' license combined . . . let the present generally high fees paid to register an entire dog or bitch be used to cover the registration fees for keeping a dog entire and perhaps require some sort of veterinary inspection to go along with it. Require desexing of all animals not registered as entire. Use the framework to make it possible for people with eight to twelve dogs to get 'hobby breeder' licenses -- which protect their right to keep multiple dogs in land with appropriate zoning.

All else equal, I'd rather have a low COI than a high COI .. . but all else is never equal. Most statistical models including the COI presume everything is independent (the IID assumption), when in reality 'everything is connected to everything else' may be a safer assumption. I don't think it's a bad thing to restrict close inbreeding, but I think it's WRONG to take an absolutist perspective on it.

I did once. The girl had uterine inertia anyway and had to have a ceasar. My vets (two different vets) recommend against. They say that if there are complications, possibly strong herbal remedies may complicate their handling of complications.

I can agree with all these points. And am reminded of a local story that, as the dog was being PTS for biting the kid, they noticed (too late) that the kid had put a bunch of staples in the dog's ear. Dogs should not be blamed for trying to protect themselves against torture by children. The statistics for attacks on children need careful review.

Awful. But curious. I've never met a mean Mastiff and have had many in boarding kennels. Maybe something has been lost in translation.

I have started as early as 3 weeks. One of my bitches tends to nick off with her chicken frame and deposit it in the puppy pen. The pups can't really eat it, but they sure have a good time trying . . . growling, tugging, pulling . . . and they pick it over pretty well before mum comes back and eats it. I've had no trouble feeding pups frames pulverized with a meat cleaver. I avoid the back end of the chook . . . which contains the guts . . . out of a guess that it is more likely to have bacteria, etc that might be harmful to the pups. The only negative I've seen is that many of my puppy buyers will choose to move on to a high-end biscuit. Pups that have been raised on bones don't much like the transition to biscuits. But being Labradors, they're born gutsers, and they survive the transition. I worry about whole necks as they tend to go down the hatch whole, and I worry that they may be oversized for the tummy of a young pup.

Might add that sometimes the pet transport companies go out of their way to do things right. I sent a pup on what was supposed to be a short flight from Perth to the far north of WA with one of the major pet movers. Oops. The plane couldn't land at the airport (bushfire, if I remember right) and went on to its second destination. The shippers took the puppy home and it spent the night in their house. They kept in touch about what was happening .. . the puppy apparently had a great time .. . . and the puppy buyer said the pup arrived in great shape with no sign of trauma.

I'm not at all against assistance animals for autistic children. What I don't understand is the training, and what, given that different individuals with autism have quite different needs. It's not like a guide dog . . . who helps with things that need sight and provide companionship. . . and needs a high level of specialised training. As I understand it, the assistance dog to an autistic child may help with development of basic emotional skills and be a calming influence to a child with erratic temper . . . many dogs seem to fit this role with fairly basic training and management . . . nothing like $30k worth. I have talked to people with autistic kids who say they did a lot of screening to find an appropriate rescue dog, or got a Lab . . . because they couldn't afford the specialised training . . . but the dog did great without it. I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong here, and would be quite interested to know what sort of training they give a dog that is to be an assistance dog for an autistic child. Or perhaps the child in question had some form of autism that meant the assistance dog was needed to do the sort of things that a guide dog does.

seems pretty pricey to me . . . especially given that, so far as I'm aware, there's no accredited training program for dog trainers to teach dogs to deal with autism. Rather hard to predict outcomes.

In kennels . . . mixing dogs . . . I have a lot of trouble with other dogs not liking SBT's. I'm pretty sure it's body language. In SBT language a good body slam is 'hello'. In other breeds it seems to be an invite to fight. With my own breed . . . Labbies generally like other Labbies and seem to be fond of Ridgies and not-so-fond of shephards.