Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) I assume alot .... "Put him to death" said the Jury, who assumed the defendant was guilty. It's ok to "assume" Flip - but certainly unwise to act on assumption, including the assertion of somewhat bold and blanket based statements. ETA : Good story, Cosmolo. And certainly not the only one out there for some lucky dogs. But not to take away the work you've done - . Well done to you and Georgie . Edited August 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Erny think you need to get a life rather than psycho annalising everything that is written, pathetic that you would dismantle just an experience i shared on this thread. everyone has opinions and posts there experiences for those genuine users of dol some we agree on and some we dont, but what you just posted is testiment to the disrespect you treat other dol users. Speaking of disrespect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 People cant even use check chains properly let alone e collars, seeing that there expensive then sure its out of price range of some people but some people will abuse it, thats why training is required and poeple need to adhear to your knowledge on e collars with the do's and donts. Would you like to see them for sale at every kmart or big w ect, mass produced to be made cheap so everyone can get em or would you rather owners going to one of your classes to be taught properly on how to use them and in what way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I just wish that everyone could experience all methods of training with an experienced trainer of that particular feild and an open mind before they flame other methods. Well said, Pax. A mind open to education is a wonderful tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) People cant even use check chains properly let alone e collars, seeing that there expensive then sure its out of price range of some people but some people will abuse it, thats why training is required and poeple need to adhear to your knowledge on e collars with the do's and donts. Heck! People don't even have to purchase specifically designed dog training equipment to abuse their dogs. To decry a training method or a training tool will not make any difference to abuse stats, save that they may increase because people will 'go underground' to train their dogs* when they are desperate and other methods aren't working (or surrender their dog/s more readily). Those that do decry these things to the exclusion of all but what they themselves believe in are the ones who create the devisive line that I think DenisC refers to. I think instead we should all unite as it surely is agreed that the vast majority have the same goal at heart? But it is difficult to unite when there is always those who will rise to fight and impose their own beliefs and preferences on others. ETA - *similar occurred when "working dog training" was outlawed and permitted only by those holding a security licence. I would not be able to count on both hands the numbers of calls I received as a trainer, from people who wanted to train their dogs up to protection work. This is not a field of work I specialise in anyway and I certainly do not know enough about it to be able to train it - but the stories I was then given from people who, in the absence of being able to obtain guidance, brought up and taught their dogs to be afraid of people so that they would be more aggressive (and therefore "more protective" ). Banning tools. Banning methodologies. This is NOT the way to go. It is only the dogs who generally end up paying the most expensive price for the bias and ignorance of some. Would you like to see them for sale at every kmart or big w ect, mass produced to be made cheap so everyone can get em or would you rather owners going to one of your classes to be taught properly on how to use them and in what way. The latter. But where did this question spring from Flip? Who has talked about e-collars being at "every Kmart or BigW etc"? Edited August 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Since when did anyone say anything about making e collars available at kmart??? Did you read my story flip and OP- any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 the kmart question i asked because i belive that people need to be trained in how to use them properly and you being a professional in the use of them, should people be able to buy them off the shelf or have to be trained in a class before obtaining one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I liked your story, you know what your doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Of course people should be trained before using them. But i also think they should be trained before using headcollars and correction chains too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 the kmart question i asked because i belive that people need to be trained in how to use them properly and you being a professional in the use of them, should people be able to buy them off the shelf or have to be trained in a class before obtaining one? I answered that in my previous post. Still not sure how or why the "Kmart" suggestion/thought came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 well you can get harnesses and check chains from k-mart would you personally want to be able to get shock collars from there as well or do you agree that there has to be some responsable control and training over them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I would like to see responsible training and control over every piece of training equipment personally. And yes that includes e collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) well you can get harnesses and check chains from k-mart would you personally want to be able to get shock collars from there as well or do you agree that there has to be some responsable control and training over them? This continues to be answered Flip. No to the former. May I politely ask if there is some agenda behind the insistence of your question? It is beginning to sound to me as though it has a political base? If I'm wrong, then I apologise. Edited August 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugerfly Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Funny, both my dogs know they are about to be rewarded, get treats, and have never been more enthusiastic after I started using e collars. Certainly not in pain, agony, nervous wrecks or show any signs of distress. My collars are used as markers of good behaviour, just like your clicker, but at an impressive distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 sorry, there was no political agenda i was just asking, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) Edited August 2, 2008 by PAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) sorry, there was no political agenda i was just asking, Fair enough. There is such a huge push by the "nay-sayers" to this tool, as well as that of the Pressure Point Collar (PPC) - aka "pinch" collar, which also is a fine tool that is more complex and clever than the uninitiated are first lead to believe by those who oppose it. They would like to see their use totally banned Australia-wide. Even though no evidence of harm from their use exists. Seems they have no qualms over people using the ever ready available head-collars and check chains from which damage has been caused, though . That was why I thought you might have had an 'angle' on your questioning. In Victoria, use of the e-collar is restricted in that a person must obtain Veterinary consult to confirm the dog's health and suitability for e-collar use; and work under the instruction/supervision of a qualified trainer. But even before this regulation came in, I was not aware of the tool being used and dogs being abused with it. As I mentioned, the unconscientious don't usually go to too many lengths to only then turn around and abuse their dogs. But I definately would not want their availability through common outlet stores. There were those people in recent times who apparently used duct tape around their dogs' muzzles to stop them from barking through the day ...................... :. So you see what I mean? Edited August 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 In Victoria, use of the e-collar is restricted in that a person must obtain Veterinary consult to confirm the dog's health and suitability for e-collar use; and work under the instruction/supervision of a qualified trainer. But even before this regulation came in, I was not aware of the tool being used and dogs being abused with it. As I mentioned, the unconscientious don't usually go to too many lengths to only then turn around and abuse their dogs. But I definately would not want their availability through common outlet stores. There were those people in recent times who apparently used duct tape around their dogs' muzzles to stop them from barking through the day ...................... :. So you see what I mean? Do you know why a vet has to determine the suitability? What things would the vet be looking for in suitability or what would fail the dog for suitability Erny? AND....can the typical DOL mentality of ganging up on people cease please. Some of you really need to step out of this unless you have something constructive to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) BUT I FEEL this type of training tool should never be allowed on any animal. that is my opinion. sorry some people can't accept that. Not sure why you want to argue the issue with me. I also feel that the shock collars are a lazy way to training a dog. Kyliegirl that video was just the same as the one I posted except yours mentioned they were testing it to see how the dog is going to feel... and " so he can go for walks without getting run over"... keep the lead on or get a long one... I hope those people didn't expect the dog to stop dead in its tracks at the side of the road when they clicked the button! It seems people will always be bullied on this forum if you disagree with the e-collar trainers as you have found. There are some positive training forums I can direct you to if you are interested, just send a pm to me Edited August 2, 2008 by helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Gemibabe, interesting that you waited till nearly 2 in the morning to post. Firstly here in this Country, everybody has the freedom of speech and expression.I would defend anybody's right to express themselves.In my eye's some responsibility come's with freedom of speech.I see that responsibility as being to tell the truth and if unsure of one's statement's or views on something,then check with reputable source's, before running with it. The Net is many things such as entertainment and information.The information availible on the net ranges from correct,partially correct,irrational information,mistruth and downright lies.One cannot just take something on the Net to be automatically correct or gospel.That would indeed be foolish!!!! You have used the tired old saying that people are engaging the gang mentality.I am afraid that is a very empty and rather poor comeback and has no constuctive element to it. Because People will defend against mistruths,distortions and lies, do's not equate to them being in Gang mentality. Please read again my earlier post about the logic you are using. Watching one video, do's not give one the hands on experience and true knowledge on which to constructively pass a judgement. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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