ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 POW - hmm yep and then you can make a whole lot more of your own . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) But DD then what you pass Novice, Open quickly and the dog isn't ready for UD. Suppose you can keep trialling in open. I just think the way I am training heelwork is going to be the last behavior that I will have totally trained. Sure I could flog it now and I am sure she would quickly be at a level that could get her a 190 in Novice but there is so much else to teach and there is no race to get titles on your dog so whats the hurry. ETA. What is one judges 190 is another judges 180 etc etc. I also believe the new rules do make it easier for dogs to score higher then they have in the past. Especially having one heel pattern in novice. Looking at the marks rarely do I see novice dogs lose much for the COP/recall/SFE but most of the marks would be lost in the heelwork. So I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn't necessarily go on a score as such as a gauge as to whether my dog was ready to trial. I think that sometimes they can have a certain spark in the ring at a young age, that "CAN" be easily lost at the higher levels. I know this can be a training issue, but I feel sometimes its not. I think you should cash in when the times right, and not necessarily to a planned level of knowledge. Do you think your Ness showed a more enthusiastic focus while breezing through the lower levels? I find a 180 score in my own mind is about the equivelant to a judges 190 (generally speaking). P.S: Tuggie's in the mail. Edited November 6, 2008 by dogdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) She did in novice yep and I think the double heel pattern didn't help the situation but there was also a lot of other that was different. Such as she was trained in classes from a young age whereas my baby hasn't been put into a formal class yet and I think that is probably the key to the difference - I know at 7 months Ness also use to get comments on her heelwork about how wonderful it was but by around 14-16 months it had started slipping quite considerably. By all means cash in while the time is right but I don't think that pushing for endless heelwork on a baby is the solution to that. Guess its horses for courses. I guess its just a difference in training and I will certainly be taking building duration heelwork not only more seriously with my younger girl but over a greater length of time. In no great rush to push her and I'll let it develop as it does. Edited November 6, 2008 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PixieOfWrath Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 POW - hmm yep and then you can make a whole lot more of your own . And when I do (and I will!!) I'll tell you what they were as a return favour By all means cash in while the time is right but I don't think that pushing for endless heelwork on a baby is the solution to that. Guess its horses for courses. I guess its just a difference in training and I will certainly be taking building duration heelwork not only more seriously with my younger girl but over a greater length of time. In no great rush to push her and I'll let it develop as it does. Do you mind me asking how much heeling do you do with her and at what pace have you built it up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hmm POW - there is a long and a short answer to that question . Probably not as much as I ever intend to and I have probably spent to long on certain bits. Will say at the outset its mainly all done off-lead even at club as I know she isn't going to make a mad dash anywhere as she finds sticking with me that exciting. I spent a truckload of time asking her to set up at heel and no more then that. First it was lured either with food or a toy. Then when she was doing that I would ask for it whenever I saw the opportunity. So we would play that game at home, at the park, at agility training, at obedience, any time she wanted anything. Before I chucked her toy, before I would rough house with her, before we tugged. I would vary my reward too. Sometimes I would reward with food, sometimes a toy, sometimes a pat. In the early days when she was a baby I did a lot of just letting her tug in a rough heel position while we were at trials in fact anywhere. I would set her up alongside walls so she learnt to keep herself straight. I guess I have been fortunate that her focus as always been good and she hasn't learnt to be anything else. I gradually started maybe doing 1-2 paces and rewarding, then increasing as she was maintaining focus. I did have to start off in slow pace as otherwise she would bounce all over the shot and try and grab my sleeve. Sometimes I'll do half a circle of heelwork and reward with a game of tug or food. Other times a few paces. When I took my two girls to the park to see just how long Kenzie would last with absolutely nothing on me or anything to bribe her she got to 29 seconds on a first attempt. That was just walking to the park getting her out and starting to heel. I was shocked as before that I really had maybe only done half circles with her. I will point out at the 29 seconds it wasn't because she lost focus but because she decided to jump and bounce at my jumper . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 POW I started off with similar very short bursts of heeling. I am currently building duration with long straight lines and big circles. I was pleased yesterday with how Poppy kept going with the heeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 A very interesting topic, what a great read! I've been nudged by a couple of trainers to enter Ruby into her first obedience trial, just to see how we go as she can work quite well, but I don't feel she's ready as her focus isn't what it should be during heelwork. After reading this thread and a few others over the past few days, I've started working hard on her focus and will continue to do so and hold off on entering our first trial until I'm happy this has picked up somewhat! I know I am going to have to just take the plunge eventually otherwise I'll forever hold off due to my nerves!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I got my courage up to enter my first trial after I had a good run through at FOO, after saying I wanted to enter my first one and being too scared for almost 18 months The week before the trial he did the worst work I have ever seen, and I thought I had made the biggest mistake 4 months later both of them were titled, and 5 out of 6 passes between them were wins or 2nd places in ring I had never had a dog before so I went in just wanting to do ok, and not do anything too embarrasing Now i wanna kick butt, so am holding back before Novice to perfect a few things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 Thanks everyone! The trial is in December and I would like at least an extra month training so I will not enter. Funnily Kelpiechick I feel more inclined to enter Brock in an agility trial! Agility is my 'fun' thing so I am less bothered about that. Not that obedience isn't fun, but it is a different sort of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Not that obedience isn't fun, but it is a different sort of fun! Yeah its more of a cant sleep feel like Im gonna puke kind of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 It's controlled fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I usually pick out an event which I would like to enter the kids for as their first trial and we aim for this (I choose something around 16-18 months of age). I find it usually gives me something to focus on, like a goal. However prior to this - I am training everything up to and including UD exercises - but just not with any precision. Scoota was taught scent at 7 months of age - however it was just him going out to the pack and bringing back the one that smelt like me - I wasn't worried about presents, turns or holding articles. Beans and Lexi once they had had their first title - I put them back in the cupboard for a few months to mature. Lexi - is about to head back to the top shelf of the cupboard for a few more months I think. This means that I continue to train and work through duration, distractions etc but just don't trial her I have found that tollers don't mature until ....well not sure really, but after 4 they tend to become more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 As already mentioned, we're yet to enter our first CCD trial, but in the meantime I have been teaching Ruby a few small extra things like retrieving, change of position and drop on recall. I'd love to teach her more exercises up to UD level, like scent discrimination, but haven't the foggiest how to teach some of these things! (first time I've trained a dog). I think I'll probably be hunting around for old threads and the net on some tips as it seems teaching as many exercises as you can upfront is the way to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 This is a great site and its the way I have taught my kids scent discrimination. There are a couple of other games you can play as well. http://www.dogscouts1.com/Dog_Activ-_Scent_Discrim.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Thanks for that link Ptolomy I've been playing the 'find it' game with toys since Zig was a puppy - it's great for taking the 'sting' out of him if he's feeling a little mischievous Will have to wait until he's doing a decent retrieve before we start on scent discrimination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Yes thanks for the link! I've actually seen that site before and was planning on using it for scent discrimination then forgot I had it bookmarked! I know there is usually many ways to teach something, so I guess my question is, do the methods on that site for scent discrimination follow what a lot of you here do? I want to be sure I'm teaching it correctly from the start and not making it unnecessarily difficult for me and the dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddii Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I decide randomly. It's all fun for us at the moment really so I don't get too hung up on whether they are ready or not. We just turn up and have fun. I hadn't seen a flyball race (OK, one heat when I didn't know what I was looking at) before our first race day, nor had I been to an agility trial before Xena's first day out. (She is still to make a mistake in the flyball ring and has been racing for 12 months now and got her first quali in her second agility trial.) I just like to get out there and have fun with the puppies. That said I haven't trialled in obedience yet and feel the need to be a bit more cautious about that. I'm going to go and have a look at a trial and make sure we are at least going to be able to do all the exercises before we head out. I really admire everyone who puts so much planning into their dogs and dog sport. We have a lot of fun and do a lot of work, but I just go like a bull at a gate and hope for the best. Maybe once I know enough to know what I should be afraid of and what I don't know things will change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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