ness Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Will make a comment on what JulesP said about leaving the dog to go and put equipment away. I have been told a sure fire way to ruin a stay is to give the dog a stay command and not be in a position to follow through with it. So if your packing up or pulling equipment down don't leave the dog in a stay. If either your or another person isn't available to enforce it then don't give the command. Tie them up or put them back in a car/crate somewhere where they are safe. The only time you should give your dog a stay command is when you intend to enforce it. It happens time and time again people give there dogs a "stay" then go off and do something else and don't release the dog and the dog eventually gets up and wanders over. Well what does that teach the dog. Not saying that any of the people who's dogs break stays do this but it can be one reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've actually had this happen. At our first trial Koori had the misfortune to do her stays next to a very dominant dog who would not stay. He latched on to her in both stays. In hindsight I should have excused myself after the first stay, but I did not. In the sit the dog got up very quick and latched on to Koori humping her, she stayed for a bit and I looked at the judge not sure what to do but the judge said nothing and as she broke I called her to me and pushed the other dog who pursed her away. The other dog repeated this in the drops, only this time I started back to her straight away and gave her a singles to come and got between both dogs. The other dog then proceeded on to the next dog in the line to repeat the process! The judge didn't offer a resit, but another handler let me do a couple of on lead stays outside the ring with her. I don't think personally that Koori's stays had been affected really as she'd had dogs jump all over her before during stays. She's a very submissive dog though and she wasn't happy. These days if that happened like Ness I'd be going to my dog regardless and if the other dog didn't leave for the next stay I would qualifying score or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I guess that is relevant if your dog doesn't have a top stay Ness. This dog does. I was also close enough that I could reinforce it. Sometimes I wonder why I bother to write on these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Zig gets to do sit stays at the beach and at the park whilst I pick up his biologically digested by-product and put it in the bin - there are often dogs playing around him (and he loves saying "hello" so this was a hard ask initially) and there are lots of way more fun things to do. At the small local park, he also does stays whilst being dive bombed by birds, screaming kids on play equipment, trains going past and older kids kicking a footy or playing with their remote control plane. I've even had idiots try and call him. When putting away equipment, if I can be in view and in a position to correct I will put him in a stay but otherwise I put in a more relaxed "lie down". We don't do a lot of formal stays with other dogs but I have confidence in him - last time we did a formal stay there were dogs breaking all around him and he just kept staring me straight in the eye So yes, opposite to LP, I look straight at my dog and he is rewarded for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 My dogs like eye contact too, but that could be a breed thing! None of my borders have had issues with staring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Natsu - I'm appalled that a dog can go and hump others in a group stay exercise and the judge nor stewards did anything about it and were basically giving you the "tough biccies" attitude? I'm obviously so new at this that anything can shock me. Seems I have a lot to learn about what is acceptable and what isn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 My dogs like eye contact too, but that could be a breed thing! None of my borders have had issues with staring! It's certainly something that I've had to teach him, JulesP.....focus does not come naturally to the Dally As for dogs being allowed to harass others during the stays - not good enough and I would step in very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 To be fair Rubystar most of the judges are very good. That's the only time I have ever had an issue. I don't know if the judge just didn't see (it was raining hard enough to float the ark at the time and the judge and steward were at the other end of the line) or what. Obviously he saw Koori come to me but I'm not sure he realised why she'd broken until the other dog came after her. In the drops he didn't get a chance to do anything, I just went back to my dog. The judge was apologetic about it after the stays but since none of us were sitting on qualifying scores I guess he saw no point in a resit. The judge has the right to use their discretion and most I find will give the benefit of the doubt when one dog gets up and interferes with another. To be honest I don't think I handled it well. It was my first time in the ring after a 17 year break and I'd forgotten how to deal with things like that. Really though I can't complain there are dogs who will break stays and go walk about and the best of them will at some point. It's just part and parcel of the game. Ptolomy I tried you sitting down stay and all I got was a very bored collie yawning at me. Poor girl she already thinks I'm nuts, I do take novels with me down to the park when we practice long stays so she's use to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ah ok then, hearing the entire story makes it sound less shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Yes my fault, I'm hopless at wording things at the best of times. I can't say I was overly happy though, and I did want to strangle a certain doggy at the time but thats the way it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I completed the sit stay challenge posted by Ptolomy: Ruby looked surprised by me sitting when I walked away, but stayed put. She was a bit distracted by birds flying overhead but otherwise did ok. Millie ran straight to me which I expected Second attempt she stayed put, but laid down half way through :D That was also expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 It seems this challenge was too easy or perhaps it shows which dogs really do know what a sit stay means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I tried with Ness and Kenzie and a friends dog last night. The two older dogs did it with ease even with Kenzie running around like a lunatic and jumping in my lap. Kenzie on the other hand - well hmmm first up I was silly enough to set Ness up on my left but I set Kenzie up on the right. Well then I go to leave and Kenzie follows and I remember we have only done stays so far with me leaving her on the left. Go and set her back up again. She is fine and stays sitting when I sit down but the I open my mouth and she saw that as an invitation to pounce . Interesting though as it does show me that its not so much body movement with her that is a release trigger but any verbal. I have been pretty methodical at proofing body movement (although I know thats not perfect either) but rarely do I proof verbal commands. Not really a problem for obedience as you can't speak in stays but obviously for agility I need it rock solid so she only releases on her given release word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobriquet218 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 It interesting that some of our judges in WA (including our open judge last night) will do 2 lots of stays - one for those that are passing and one for those that aren't. Yes, thankfully the sub-committee voted in favour of having separate qualifying and non-qualifying stays available. :D The qualifying stays are always held first. If you are non-qualifying, you still have the chance to do the proper stays under 'real trial conditions" something that cannot be easily mimicked at training, as the handler does not have the same vibes being exuded. Ness, this may be part of the reason you miss out on the high score ones, no matter how much you may say you are the same, you won't be! You will be 'sweating' that high score, and your dog is a zillion times tuned into you and may not understand fully what has you in the state you are in, and will react to what she thinks is "something not quite right". IMHO. Di Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobriquet218 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You need to borrow my cat for real challenges!! The tail twirling around puppy dog's nose is a good distraction. The cat going and eating the puppy's jackpot treats was a major challenge :D The look on Poppy's face was priceless! My cat has done this, dogs in stays, and she will go and help herself to the foodbowls. I'm amazed at them allowing it. They do trust me to chase her away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) Nah I don't think thats the reason. The Royal score (and possible placing) I wasn't even aware of until after she had broken. It was only when Valeta saw that I was upset and called me over to tell me how upset she was for me. All Ptolomy and Deb Hyde said to me after the ring work (one or other of them had checked my score) was that I should be tickled pink with both my handling and her performance. Was really none the wiser about the rest until after the event. Both occasions she has broken her down stay and its been the same thing. She has started licking her tummy and then sat up. I also know it wasn't ring related as both times I had been telling her off in the morning on the way to the trial for licking her tummy when she was just laying around so I think she had an allergic reaction to something. Edited February 25, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Well, my baby successfully completed her sit stay last night! Woohoo! And her down stay too. So we walked away from the Western Classic with our first CCD pass :cool: The heelwork was woeful So I'm flabbergasted how we walked away with 3rd place Perfect SFE, then she got scared by a marker on the ground in recall and went around it to give me a crooked front But nonetheless, 3rd place is 3rd place so darn it I'm gonna enjoy it! And keep on trainin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 WOO HOOOO!!!!!! :cool: GO RS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now what was your score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Not so sure I want to disclose that information, it's highly embarrassing! WORST heelwork she has ever done!! I thought her heelwork a fortnight ago was bordering on bad, but I'd have given anything to have had that last night! 3rd place didn't seem to be an indication of how good we were, it was more an indication of how unlucky some people were last night We were #13, thought it was going to be very unlucky!! Oh what the heck, scores were: Heelwork: 17/30 :cool: *hides* SFE: 10/10 Recall: 18/20 (that damn marker!) Sit Stay: 20/20 Down Stay: 20/20 Total: 85/100 Our very first trial last fortnight she got 23 for heelwork and I was disappointed with that! Shame on me! Had she completed her sit stay then we would have been sitting on a 92/100 :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Congrats RubyStar!!!!!! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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