Staffordshire Bull Terrier

[kye83]

Thanks for the reply SBT123. I am a little worried about the play style a puppy Staf will bring to our Maltese X but figure now would be a better time then later because the Maltese X is still very playful. She is also a very friendly dog and I have introduced her to a friends Amstaff with no problems at all. Another question I have is what are peoples thoughts on Crate Training? A friend of myen is in the process of crate training his huski and has had nothing but good things to say about this method.

[TessiesTracey]

Another question I have is what are peoples thoughts on Crate Training? A friend of myen is in the process of crate training his huski and has had nothing but good things to say about this method.

Hi there kye83.

Both of my Staffords (one aged 7, one aged 3) are crate trained. I did this from an early age, and providing that the dogs are fully aware that the crate is their bed (therefore a safe and quiet place for them) there is nothing negative I can say about crate training.

It is important though that the dog see's the crate as a place of refuge, and not punishment.

I've often heard of people crating to try and combat over-excitable behaviour for example - that won't work!

The crate is often safer for your dog if left unattended for short periods, and can be safer for your house too if you have a chewer! LOL

[vodka]

Hi

Just wanted to ask about the different builds of the staffordshire

looking at a few different litters/pups and their parents i noticed some

of the parents were quiet "tight"( like they have had a face lift) their front

legs appeared thin and long, and some others were very thick set, wide, with lots of

loose skin, all had excellent personalities and temperments ect, just wanted to know

from a breeders point of view the different builds and exagerations

Thankyou

[Sandra777]

Just wanted to ask about the different builds of the staffordshire

looking at a few different litters/pups and their parents i noticed some

of the parents were quiet "tight"( like they have had a face lift) their front

legs appeared thin and long, and some others were very thick set, wide, with lots of loose skin

A Stafford is a "fighting dog" (well was, over 150 years ago!) so should definitely have tight skin on the head and neck to avoid this becoming a liability in a fight. Dogs with excessive wrinkles and those with folds of skin are generally not well considered by breed specialist judges or all rounder judges with good knowledge of the breed. As a breeder I find them to be very foreign and unpleasant to look at. Some people like their dog to have a "squishy face" and IMO this is fine because it's your dog and you should love it, but it doesn't make it right for a Stafford.

The breed is meant to be a 50/50 blend of Bulldog and terrier but it is not the Bulldog as we know it today, but a leggier, much more active animal. Being nature things not mix half and half like they do in cooking, so there are variations in the breed.

READ the breed standard, this will give you a reasonably good idea of the size of dog which is wanted.

16 inches is the maximum height 'desired' but many are much taller. A 16 inch tall male, fully grown and in good condition, is meant to weigh 38 pounds. In reality most show dogs of this height weigh around 40-42 pounds these days because most judges expect to see dogs with larger heads than was normal when these heights and weights were set down.

Almost without exception the "thickset" dogs are massively over the desired weight and this means they are not balanced in the eyes of most Stafford-enthusiasts. Doesn't make them any less loveable to their owners of course!

Just as a guide, the Cocker Spaniel is meant to be around the same height (to the shoulder) as a Stafford and only weighs a little less.

Many people like "big boofy" Staffords. As a pet owner people can like whatever they like, but these aren't correct Staffords from a show point of view.

The last thing to consider about the ones which are thickset is the strain on the shoulders and stifles. Most of these dogs have bones set at the wrong angles (for the breed AND for what nature intended) to allow their bigger than normal ribcages to fit in. Making bones move to whole new exciting positions isn't good for the long term health of the dog.

, all had excellent personalities and temperments ect, just wanted to know

from a breeders point of view the different builds and exagerations

Well if you want a pet dog then this and health are the two things you should concern yourself with first second third and fourth!

[TessiesTracey]

Just wanted to ask about the different builds of the staffordshire

looking at a few different litters/pups and their parents i noticed some

of the parents were quiet "tight"( like they have had a face lift) their front

legs appeared thin and long, and some others were very thick set, wide, with lots of loose skin

A Stafford is a "fighting dog" (well was, over 150 years ago!) so should definitely have tight skin on the head and neck to avoid this becoming a liability in a fight. Dogs with excessive wrinkles and those with folds of skin are generally not well considered by breed specialist judges or all rounder judges with good knowledge of the breed. As a breeder I find them to be very foreign and unpleasant to look at. Some people like their dog to have a "squishy face" and IMO this is fine because it's your dog and you should love it, but it doesn't make it right for a Stafford.

The breed is meant to be a 50/50 blend of Bulldog and terrier but it is not the Bulldog as we know it today, but a leggier, much more active animal. Being nature things not mix half and half like they do in cooking, so there are variations in the breed.

READ the breed standard, this will give you a reasonably good idea of the size of dog which is wanted.

16 inches is the maximum height 'desired' but many are much taller. A 16 inch tall male, fully grown and in good condition, is meant to weigh 38 pounds. In reality most show dogs of this height weigh around 40-42 pounds these days because most judges expect to see dogs with larger heads than was normal when these heights and weights were set down.

Almost without exception the "thickset" dogs are massively over the desired weight and this means they are not balanced in the eyes of most Stafford-enthusiasts. Doesn't make them any less loveable to their owners of course!

Just as a guide, the Cocker Spaniel is meant to be around the same height (to the shoulder) as a Stafford and only weighs a little less.

Many people like "big boofy" Staffords. As a pet owner people can like whatever they like, but these aren't correct Staffords from a show point of view.

The last thing to consider about the ones which are thickset is the strain on the shoulders and stifles. Most of these dogs have bones set at the wrong angles (for the breed AND for what nature intended) to allow their bigger than normal ribcages to fit in. Making bones move to whole new exciting positions isn't good for the long term health of the dog.

, all had excellent personalities and temperments ect, just wanted to know

from a breeders point of view the different builds and exagerations

Well if you want a pet dog then this and health are the two things you should concern yourself with first second third and fourth!

Might I also add with regard to health - check for specific health checks from parents, ie. L2Hga, PHPVC and so on?

And also to thank you for mentioning the 'big boofy's'. :-)

Be aware also that a Stafford is a brachycephalic breed and so muzzle length (comparitive to head size) should be a consideration also.

[Sandra777]

Be aware also that a Stafford is a brachycephalic breed and so muzzle length (comparitive to head size) should be a consideration also.

I would question whether the Stafford is meant to be a brachycephalic breed though. IMO the breed has been altered by some breeders to make it borderline Brachy but is it actually meant to be one, personally I don't believe so.

The definition of a Brachy breed is a breed with a cephalic index of more than 80.

The cephalic index is the ratio between the breadth and length of the head, calculated as 100 times the maximum breadth of the head, measured at the greatest diameter divided by the maximum length.

I'll try some measuring tonight

[TessiesTracey]

Be aware also that a Stafford is a brachycephalic breed and so muzzle length (comparitive to head size) should be a consideration also.

I would question whether the Stafford is meant to be a brachycephalic breed though. IMO the breed has been altered by some breeders to make it borderline Brachy but is it actually meant to be one, personally I don't believe so.

The definition of a Brachy breed is a breed with a cephalic index of more than 80.

The cephalic index is the ratio between the breadth and length of the head, calculated as 100 times the maximum breadth of the head, measured at the greatest diameter divided by the maximum length.

I'll try some measuring tonight

No, you're right, I perhaps should have phrased my sentence better. They're not supposed to be a brachy breed, but it seems many are heading that way with over-exaggeration. A breed with a normal scissor bite in their standard is not normally classed as brachy.

[ellz]

The way that the size and shape difference was explained to me is that you should remember that in terms of athletes, the Stafford is the Boxer of the Terrier Group and not the Weightlifter. In that, he should have long muscles and a natural agility and not be overweight, have short bunchy muscles and poor mobility.

And I was also told that a quick way to see if your dog is "balanced" is to run a tape measure around the widest part of his skull. That measurement should approximate his height from shoulders to ground.

[Sandra777]

No, you're right, I perhaps should have phrased my sentence better. They're not supposed to be a brachy breed, but it seems many are heading that way with over-exaggeration. A breed with a normal scissor bite in their standard is not normally classed as brachy.

The bite is not the relevant part - the definite of Brachy is as I have given.

Perhaps it would be more useful to constantly remind people the breed is NOT a brachy one so the overdone look is incorrect.

Yep Ellz, would be quite happy with head = height at withers gives a guide to balance PLUS the height/weights given in the standard gives another guide to the balance wanted, even though many breeders seem to think the height-weight ratio is irrelevant. Precise measurements don't work in nature, so being pedantic is a waste of time but the ratio gives a very clear and simple picture of the sort of dog that is described in the standard. Balanced for a Stafford, not balanced for a Whippet or Rottweiler!

[TessiesTracey]

No, you're right, I perhaps should have phrased my sentence better. They're not supposed to be a brachy breed, but it seems many are heading that way with over-exaggeration. A breed with a normal scissor bite in their standard is not normally classed as brachy.

The bite is not the relevant part - the definite of Brachy is as I have given.

b

Perhaps it would be more useful to constantly remind people the breed is NOT a brachy one so the overdone look is incorrect.

Yep Ellz, would be quite happy with head = height at withers gives a guide to balance PLUS the height/weights given in the standard gives another guide to the balance wanted, even though many breeders seem to think the height-weight ratio is irrelevant. Precise measurements don't work in nature, so being pedantic is a waste of time but the ratio gives a very clear and simple picture of the sort of dog that is described in the standard. Balanced for a Stafford, not balanced for a Whippet or Rottweiler!

Oh I understand the definition, and how the cephalic index works/is measured (and the fact that it was first introduced to classify Europeans! lol).

Although the workings of the cephalic index does not include measuring the jaw/muzzle only the skull, I do think my point in bringing up the jaw and scissor bite is relevant to a canine head, as most mesaticephalic breeds have normal occlusion (placement of teeth) because of simultaneous jaw / mandible length, (i.e. a normal scissor bite) whereas a brachy breed tends to have a shorter upper jaw (i.e undershot) due to underdevelopment of the basicranial axis bones, i.e. the base of the skull.

And of course there is the breathing problems witnessed in brachy breeds due to elongated soft palates and shortened muzzles, so forgive me if I do think it has a relevance. I hope I'm not coming across as troublesome, but I do feel it's an important issue.

Could you also perhaps clarify the head to withers ratio as a guide to balance? I find that one really interesting - are you saying the measurements should be the same?

I digress, so, back to the point (sorry for going slightly off), your second sentence is completely correct. Over exaggeration, particularly with regard to a Staffords' head, should be avoided to encourage a healthier dog which is, I'm sure, what every new owner wants.

[Sandra777]

Oh I understand the definition, and how the cephalic index works/is measured (and the fact that it was first introduced to classify Europeans! lol).

Really? how weird, How did we all measure up :D

Although the workings of the cephalic index does not include measuring the jaw/muzzle only the skull, I do think my point in bringing up the jaw and scissor bite is relevant to a canine head, as most mesaticephalic breeds have normal occlusion (placement of teeth) because of simultaneous jaw / mandible length, (i.e. a normal scissor bite) whereas a brachy breed tends to have a shorter upper jaw (i.e undershot) due to underdevelopment of the basicranial axis bones, i.e. the base of the skull.

Not arguing that this isn't so in practice, but the theory and classification of a breed is based on the cephalic index not jaw length or bite. Not saying it's right just saying that is the way the classification works and using that classification for Staffords is simply wrong, not because of bite but because of skull dimension ;)

And of course there is the breathing problems witnessed in brachy breeds due to elongated soft palates and shortened muzzles, so forgive me if I do think it has a relevance. I hope I'm not coming across as troublesome, but I do feel it's an important issue.

Is it possible to shorten the muzzle without increasing the skull dimensions though? What I mean is if you had a Stafford with a really short muzzle (sorry, stupid me, what do I mean if :p ) wouldn't it's skull automatically shorten and increase it's ratio and the dog would come under the brachy classification. Yep, I realise it's intended to classify a breed as a whole not individual dogs.

In other words, you shorten the muzzle means you increase the skull width/length ratio - this is the way nature works - same amount of material crammed into a whole new space.

Could you also perhaps clarify the head to withers ratio as a guide to balance? I find that one really interesting - are you saying the measurements should be the same?

Yes, skull diameter = height is a very old measurement used as a guide to the size and proportions wanted. First mentioned in Beilby's books way back in the dark ages

[Eileen]

What does the "totally reliable" mean in the stafford breed standard?

[Pointees]

Hey there Staffy owners,

My OH and I are looking into getting a Staffy in the next 2-3 years, I know, its some time away, but he is VERY excited, and this is making him happy to see that I am writing to ask a few questions.

Would a Staffy pup go well with an English Pointer bitch? My girl is currently a year and a half, so will be close to 4 years old by the time we get a Staffy.

What colours are most common? I tend to see a lot of Black and Brindle ones.

How do Staffy's go with rabbits and horses?

Are they better off raised inside with the family or outside? In other words do they love to be in with the "pack" all the time or do they rather be more independant. I tend to have my dogs sleep inside when I am home, and outside when I'm not (unless its raining or looks like it will rain, then they are crated to avoid a ruined house.

What is the general diet these little ones eat? I tend to feed two cups of dry to my girl, and meat daily, along with yoghurt, cheese, milk, egg, dog rolls, etc for variety.

How do they tend to go in dog obedience? And do they do recall well? I like to be able to let my dogs run around the horse paddocks, or go to the oval and play some soccer.

Another VERY important question, can they easily jump up onto a couch or bed? I don't mind lifting them up, but I would rather they are able to jump from time to time. As I said, VERY important question.

Thanks in advance guys!!

[WreckitWhippet]

Hell yeah they go with Pointees It's an awesome combination as they Pointers play hard and fast without getting fired up and the Staffords just play. Mine adore the Pointers

ETA: I had to go as I had to go and flog a Whippet.

Feel free to email or PM me and I can let you know more about the Staffords and the Pointers interact together etc

Edited October 4, 2009 by SBT123

[sandra64]

all of the above,they can quite easily get up on the lounge. ours has such a gently nature with the livestock, never ever has one of them gone for the cattle or ducks for that matter. All i know is that any that we have had feel the cold, so in winter they are usually inside alot sleeping on the beds, or in summer its usually outside. My kelpies are always outside on the verandah at night, as they prefer that. Just comes down to how you want your dog to be i spose.

Edited October 4, 2009 by sandra64

[WreckitWhippet]

That's Ashanali's "Ronin", who was visiting us for a while.

My Staffords are pretty much of the mind, that if it's big and it looks red and white, you can play with it

[WreckitWhippet]

I won't clog up the thread but yes, they can and do get on well

[Pointees]

Glad to hear SBT123. Although my Pointer tends to be a sook.

Great photos!! I love them!

OH will have to get a Staffy or two to go with my Pointee!

ETA: Glad to hear they can be inside and outside. I love my doggies to sleep inside, on the couch or my bed, and be outside during the day when I am not home.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Pointees

[wotan]

Hi I'm new to the forum and wow loads of great info to be found here!!!

For first time SBT owners wanting to know more about puppy feeding requirements/frequency, could we please have some guidance on the following questions:

1. How many cups/grams of dry food per day?

2. For variety, what else can be mixed with it? (ie egg, yoghurt, sardines etc)

3. When to start introducing fruit/vegetables and which ones are recommended and not suitable?

4. When can they start eating raw chicken and beef, and are cooked leftovers a no-no?

5. Real bones or substitute bones, which is best for growing teeth?

6. As with other breeds, is there an age/height/weight guide for SBT's?

Opinions & recommendations appreciated!

[Sandra777]

1. How many cups/grams of dry food per day?

Sorry, don't feed dry so can't help with this one. Feed what is reccomended on the bag and feed more or less if the pup gets too fat/thin would be the best bet. This applies throughout the dog's life - feed it what it needs to maintain a healthy weight - there is no magic number

2. For variety, what else can be mixed with it? (ie egg, yoghurt, sardines etc)

Yes, all the things you've mentioned. Plus cheese, table scraps, any sort of meat cooked or raw except bacon/ham/salami and similar processed meats. Basically anything can be added with the exception of onion, chocolate, cooked bones of any sort and highly spiced food. I wouldn't feed a puppy 1/2 a pizza either But you need to avoid adding so much "junk" food that you unbalance the diet IF you are feeding dry food as a staple. ETA: corn tends to go straight through dogs and never EVER give him corn on the cob or the 'empty' cob - not even as a toy. They're deadly.

3. When to start introducing fruit/vegetables and which ones are recommended and not suitable?

I don't 'do' vege but you can start feeding a pup some vegetables at any time - but again avoid feeding them so much vege that the dry food (IF this is the staple diet) gets pushed out. Avoid onion and any of the cabbage family (stink!). Cooked is fine, raw is fine. If raw, pulverise it (blender) as dogs can't digest the cellulose in the cell walls.

4. When can they start eating raw chicken and beef, and are cooked leftovers a no-no?

Mine start eating raw beef, chicken, lamb, pork, roo, turkey & fish at 3.5 - 4 weeks. So any time. Cooked table scraps are fine so long as they don't include cooked bones, onion or strong spices and again, avoid making the left overs the main part of the diet.

5. Real bones or substitute bones, which is best for growing teeth?

Real. Chicken carcases, chicken maryland, turkey necks, lamb necks - all great for puppies. Personally I won't feed brisket because I have had a dog choke and die when he managed to 1/2 swallow a brisket bone (and know other Staffords which have done the same) but for a puppy it would be fine - but perhaps too fatty for many. The weight bearing bones of large animals are not good for Staffords because they have enough jaw power to crunch the bone - and break teeth in the process. Plus because they can break pieces off they will swallow them, and that much bone all at once can cause impactions. A puppy probably wouldn't find them all that interesting. IMO bones with interesting corners and curves are better for puppies - neck bones, tail bones etc.

6. As with other breeds, is there an age/height/weight guide for SBT's?

No, not really. Depends on the line and the individual dog. As long as your puppy is active, not fat and growing at a steady rate it's probably OK. Generally speaking my pups are about an inch under their adult height at around 5 months, but every one is different!

Edited October 14, 2009 by Sandra777