Kavik Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It doesn't have to be a long one-on-one to teach a new complex behaviour. I am going to teach running contacts to Kaos by first shaping him to jump into and out of a pvc box. I don't have the correct components yet, so have not started the proper training with him. However, I am practicing my technique by shaping Diesel into a pvc box I have made with existing components that is approximately the right size. Only takes a couple of minutes (much more than that and Diesel gets bored anyway ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 One of my huskies does this if i leave him in a create too. I feel for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Can't I just send him to live with you Monika? Edited June 25, 2009 by ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 My idea on what to do with Chopper is not a quick fix (sorry!). Maybe find his threshold - where he will exhibit the behaviour but only mildly not manic. Could be if OH in the other room with the dogs, or outside the house etc. Ignore if he throws a tantie but reward if he is quiet (maybe throw some food in there or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) One of my huskies does this if i leave him in a create too. Crate. Not Create. Your dog creates if left in the crate. Sorry ..... seeing this spelling error a fair bit from numerous posters and it bugs me (to a very mild degree ..... I don't lose any sleep over it ). Edited June 25, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Laffi might be talking about Susan Garretts Crate Games, it is a DVD, available on Clean Run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Can't I just send him to live with you Monika? When I get a farm no problem , he can scream his guts out and noone will hear him (Ill wear ear plugs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 And when Divani's hearding him around the place and biting him on the bottom he'll be wishing he'd been a good boy Maybe I'll send the pics to Wendy, she keeps threatening to take him off me and train him properly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Thats and option, or wait for Nathan to move and Hannah will sort Chopper out in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Alternativelly you move out from your house for a while and Dave sorts the dogs out. I have faith in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Nah, I cleaned up and checked him out before I got on here. He's fine. Good thinking on contacting the crate manufacturers My trainer friend said to keep going with the new routine or else he'll think he's won and to muzzle him in his crate, although that wouldn't stop him throwing himself around inside it. He's met Chopper and he didn't think it was SA, more likely a tantrum cause he likes to get his way. It was a very quick phonecalll though and he hadn't seen the pictures or been told about the pooh. Your trainer friend is wrong, it's not about winning or losing at all, and putting a muzzle on a dog that stressed out is an awful suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Laffi might be talking about Susan Garretts Crate Games, it is a DVD, available on Clean Run. it's a great DVD and I STRONGLY recommend it I think the attitude "let him be, he will get over it" works for certain dogs.... but I think your dog is way passed this stage. So I would start from the beginning, as if he was a pup and didn't know what a crate was. You want to build an association that being in the crate is a fabulous thing. So things I recommend would be: *feeding all of his meals in the crate *letting the dogs out one at a time, but not always letting chopper out first *making it a race to go into his crate *leaving him in his crate with a bone or a kong filled with treats (not going away too far so he is not too anxious and is able to eat them... once he gets too anxious and doesn't eat means you are trying to go too far too soon) *gradually build to you playing outside with other dogs to going for a walk. The walk should be the last thing you introduce him to Unfortunately my method is not a quick fix solution It works though, it worked on my dog who was very anxious (to the point of not eating her raw bone) if I went for a walk with my other dog; it worked for heaps of my friends too. In an agility trial you will see heaps of dogs being crated. Most of them hate it (or would hate it if not trained properly) as it's like a 'sin bin' for them. They want to be out and about, not confined to a crate. So your problem is not unique. It's quite common really. Edited June 25, 2009 by laffi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Your trainer friend is wrong Whats your suggestion for a solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Your trainer friend is wrong Whats your suggestion for a solution? First of all the trainer needs to understand the dog is not having a TANTRUM he is ANXIOUS. When you are in a highly aroused state you cannot think, when you cannot think you cannot LEARN new coping strategies. Chopper does need to learn that being on his own is ok, but it needs to happen slowly and strategically through a training plan that is humane. He needs his perception of the situation changed NOT punished further and further for showing he is not ok with the dogs/ruthless leaving. I can't believe that learned trainers would diagnose this as a tantrum, it's beyond belief. Edited June 25, 2009 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I also think Crate Games may be a solution to this I have watched it. Seemed a bit full on for what I want to do in terms of crating (though the responses of the dogs for agility was amazing!) but definitely looked good for self control and the dogs did LOVE their crates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 If the trainer is who I think it is, the trainer knows Ruth and knows her dogs well. Also knows what arrangements they have at home and what is Ruths relationship with the dogs. That trainer trained many dogs very sucessfully. The trainer is not all positive tho. Chopper does need to learn that being on his own is ok I also know Chopper and had seen him being very ok in a crate many times on his own, so its not that he doesnt understand the concept of being alone and in the crate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) I can't believe that learned trainers would diagnose this as a tantrum, it's beyond belief. I agree with your posts, both in this and also that muzzling Chopper is not only not the answer, but is dangerous in itself and bears a propensity to increasing his anxiety, not lower it. Either way though (ie whether one wants to call it a 'tantrum' or not) Chopper needs someone to try to work out WHY he is behaving this way/having a "tantrum". Edited June 25, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I can't believe that learned trainers would diagnose this as a tantrum, it's beyond belief. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) I belive the word tantrum was used by ruthless, and there is no mention of the trainer diagnosing its as that. ETA Than again maybe it was, I just rered Ruths posts. Edited June 25, 2009 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'm not sure what else I can say apart from that Crate Games would be a great start, as others have suggested. It may not address the underlying anxiety though, but it might, I can't predict there. I've trained many dogs successfully as well, I'm not all positive either- I know *ratbag* when I see it, I have one at home who needs a lot of extra help to remember his manners. But pooing on the floor and doing physical damage is clearly not just an indication of belligerence (for want of a better word). I'm not always right either, but even over the net the dogs' behaviour and Ruthless's description, seems clear to me. When I think about translating that to a Veterinary setting, where a dog urinates or defecates on the table, the thought of actually punishing it makes me shudder. The dog is clearly demonstrating "hey I'm not ok here!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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