MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 When I think about translating that to a Veterinary setting, where a dog urinates or defecates on the table, the thought of actually punishing it makes me shudder. The dog is clearly demonstrating "hey I'm not ok here!". I didnt see anything about punishing the dog. Just about continuing with the new routine of taking two dog out and leaving two others in crates. And I dare say muzzle was suggested to muffle the noise, but again I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think he throws tantrums cause he's been rewarded for them in the past Yes it was me that called it a tantrum! So, I need a plan of attack! There's a spare crate in the garage, I can set that up in the office. Should I move Angel's to the spare room? Ivan never sleeps on his bed anyway, so prob ok to leave Trixie's where it is. [Not that she's ever thrown a tantrum anyway ] Tomorrow morning I can leave Chopper in his crate while OH is still in bed and take Ivan and Trixie out first. That way if he spazzs out OH can intervene. I'll then take him and Angel out and walk him with a backpack. At lunchtime I can do some one-on-one training with the three young ones. Ivan's ok, as long as he gets some cabanossi too he'll be happy! I might put them in their crates at about 5 for a couple of hours nap. They tend to get the crazies when OH gets home, so it'd be good to have them all in their separate sleeping quarters. I'll try and track down a copy of crate games too. Obviously this is just for days when I'm working from home. On other days they'll be in their runs. Is there anything else I should be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Covering his crate with a large sheet or doona cover may be helpful, but it would be something you do overnight to start off with, and get him used to it before covering him and taking the other dogs out I imagine. A DAP diffuser in your crate room may also help. When you say he was rewarded for the behaviour in the past what exactly do you mean? Edited June 25, 2009 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Is there anything else I should be doing? 1. You should confirm the plan with the trainer. 2. Have couple of shots of vodka to settle your pain tonight 3. Call me in the evening 4. Come to training tomorrow night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 K9: I guess that no one was there to see the state of mind of Chopper, so he could have been tearing at that crate, ears up tail wagging & making a good Ol game of it or, he could have worked himself into a state of high anxiety & was frantically trying to break out of the crate? It would be one of those two, how do we progress? The loose stool could be stress related or something he ate, this breed though is proned to suffer from Separation Anxiety. No one knows, but the therapy for each is completely different. As know one knows, it is anyone's guess. If I guess, I usually guess in the direction of motivation, rather than pressure, locking him in the crate assuming that his state of mind is positive is flooding. In my opinion flooding is a risky direction to go even when you know what is wrong with the dog, too risky when you don't know what is wrong & your guessing. I feel the best direction would be to set up a video camera & tape him in the crate, have that assessed by a behaviourist, this is a behaviour issue, not a training issue. If he is suffering anxiety, then some of the suggestions here, possibly coupled with medication & desensitising may be required. I personally don't like muzzles on dogs when no supervision is available. Here is an article that isn't about a tantrum throwing or aggressive dog, it is about a dog suffering SA. read it here Finally, lets keep in mind the ideal of the crate, it is not an area of punishment, rather should be trained a s good place satisfying the den mentality of a dog. I think that positive place may have been lost here. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 When you say he was rewarded for the behaviour in the past what exactly do you mean? I mean I've allowed him to get his way too many times. Like I said in the OP, I've tried walking only two instead of all four, but I always go back to four cause I can't stand hearing how distressed he gets when I leave him. I didn’t mean to spoil him, it just happened. I’d never had dogs before and then we had three within the space of 6 months! I didn’t know anything. If he was distressed I couldn’t bare it. If I walked out and he started screaming I’d go back and bring him with me. If I wanted to take just one dog somewhere I’d take him cause it was the easy option. I had to bring him to dog training to calm him down and he was really good at it, so that was even more time alone with me. He's like this because I let it happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Don't beat yourself up about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) When you say he was rewarded for the behaviour in the past what exactly do you mean? I mean I've allowed him to get his way too many times. Like I said in the OP, I've tried walking only two instead of all four, but I always go back to four cause I can't stand hearing how distressed he gets when I leave him. I didn’t mean to spoil him, it just happened. I’d never had dogs before and then we had three within the space of 6 months! I didn’t know anything. If he was distressed I couldn’t bare it. If I walked out and he started screaming I’d go back and bring him with me. If I wanted to take just one dog somewhere I’d take him cause it was the easy option. I had to bring him to dog training to calm him down and he was really good at it, so that was even more time alone with me. He's like this because I let it happen Hey, ruthless! Stop being so hard on yourself!!!! Sometimes these things can just creep up on you ETA: Snap, Kavik Edited June 25, 2009 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Don't beat yourself up about it Try to work it out and it will make you feel SO much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Ruthless and I used to train sometimes together. She would bring Chopper and Trixie. When Trixie was out being trained Chopper would happily sit in the car in the crate. So he can be quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Chopper would happily sit in the car in the crate. I'm guessing he could hear/smell/see what was going on? he wasn't in a l room all alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Here is an article that isn't about a tantrum throwing or aggressive dog, it is about a dog suffering SA. read it here Thanks, I'll have a read of that. Thanks Kavik, TSD and Laffi too. Pity party's over! Ruthless and I used to train sometimes together. She would bring Chopper and Trixie. When Trixie was out being trained Chopper would happily sit in the car in the crate. So he can be quiet. I forgot about that. He would have a little whinge though. He could see me out the window the whole time too. Maybe I could hire someone to drive him along beside me while I'm walking the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Chopper would happily sit in the car in the crate. I'm guessing he could hear/smell/see what was going on? he wasn't in a l room all alone? He could see me out the window the whole time too. No he couldnt. He would be in the car and we would be on the field. Car was closed, we were significant distance away. He would have a little whinge though. When you got back, you wouldnt know if he whinged when we were at the distance training Trixie. Edited June 25, 2009 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Ruthless and I used to train sometimes together. She would bring Chopper and Trixie. When Trixie was out being trained Chopper would happily sit in the car in the crate. So he can be quiet. I forgot about that. He would have a little whinge though. He could see me out the window the whole time too. Maybe I could hire someone to drive him along beside me while I'm walking the others :) :) Maybe I should volunteer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 he wasn't in a l room all alone? Today he was not in a room all alone, he was with another dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 he wasn't in a l room all alone? Today he was not in a room all alone, he was with another dog... Oh no, Ivan got the hell away from that fruitcake! He has access to the whole house when I'm out. He wasn't in there when I got home. In fact I didn't know where Chopper was either cause I couldn't see the crate. He'd shuffled it across the room and under the rack of drying clothes! Laffi, you're not a million miles away, see you at 6.30am tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowgirl Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Oh jeeze!! What an awful sight to come home to! Chopper really got himself upset . I wonder what the other crated dog thought of it all? Good luck with it, you're open to help and suggestions which is fantastic and can only benifit Chopper, so well done for wanting to fix the issue .... some great advice you're getting too . Did you find out where the blood was coming from? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Ivan wasn't crated, like I said above, he left and went into another room. Can't say I blame him! Chopper was bleeding from his gums. It looks worse than it was cause the excessive drool made it go everywhere. His two canines are already broken so luckily he didn't make them any worse. Guess where he is now? Sleeping happily in his crate Edited June 25, 2009 by ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowgirl Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Of course he is!!! . Little bugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo d'état Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Holy crap Ruth, what a sight to have to come home to! No advice to offer here, just lots of hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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