How Many Breeds?

[carlibud]

Ok due to my breed the GSD no matter what topic is started, the posts always seem to end in breed bashing posts. Even from people who claim to love and own the breed.

I'm wondering I suppose because other breeds dont seem to cop as much cr@p as the GSD's about WL vs SL's and how they should be SCH trained or else they arnt how Germany breeds them so therefore Aussie dogs are all unfit for the title of being a GSD.

Well it has got me thinking to how many dogs still do the work that they were originally bred for??

For Example Lhasa's were originally Temple guard dogs ( I think just an eg: not a definite quote OK LOL)

What about Collies werent they for sheep??

Sorry guess I should of looked up what they were originally bred for first

Could they still do this or most of the them anyway.??

I know there is always the debate of WL vs SL in every breed and people will say that they should be the same but how many WL English Setters for example would you see with the amount of coat that we see on our SL's today ?? They are different in builds as well. Sorry I know again people will say they shouldnt be but they are and always will be different.

And I'm definitely not saying that SL's cant work so please dont think that, I dont mean that at all.

Working line Kelpies are finer than the SL's etc( or from what Ive seen dont really know if this true or not )

Ok I guess I should don a Flame suit but its a genuine question!

Does your breed or could your breed still do the job it was bred for and of course does it want to ;)

[Dogsfevr]

There are plenty of working ES that are shown & in great coats.

The problem is we dont have the avenues in Australia to do many things that our overseas counter parts can alll year round or certainly seasonal

[carlibud]

Yes I know what you are saying SD but thats I suppose where I am going with this. In Australia it is different isnt it with our climate etc..

So the WL dogs that you say are in a plenty that have good coats, that isnt in Australia or is it??

[Pointees]

I have two pointers, and although they don't go out with their master and point things out for myself to shot, they do go out and hunt all they want. They catch birds and rabbits, and the birds that fly into our backyard.

So I guess, if given the chance they would be able to do what they were originally bred for.

[Gayle.]

Mine can herd sheep, although Benson doesn't like them much. He's actually bred from very serious working lines on the sire's side, but he missed out on the sheep-loving genes and prefers to hide behind my legs instead.

Dusty is a very enthusiastic little herder and now that she's matured, I might have a more serious crack at the sport.

[carlibud]

I think my two girls are pointees too Pointees LOL

They love to hunt all the grasshoppers etc and god forbid the birds that love to annoy them by landing just near them in the trees or on the garage roof .LOL

I do agree that there will be breeds such as in the gundogs etc that will always have the instincts in them for that ,as in pointing etc when they see a bird,

I guess it depends what you want from your breed as well, dosnt it.

Mine are a working breed, I want mine as family pets first, but I dont really want my dogs to work sheep and I'm not into obedience so does that mean I should'nt have the breed because it takes away from what the breed was bred for ?.

So thats another question thrown in for the topic

Thats great Gaylek that Dusty is so keen. But just proves something I guess that there is a boy like Benson that has such lines for it but isnt keen at all, but it certainly dosnt take away from him does it .

Edited January 1, 2010 by carlibud

[Bisart Dobes]

Hmmm - also a subject of much debate, bitching and fighting in our breed.

Dobes are the only breed developed as a guard dog - they should have a happy, confident, self assured, strong, watchful, alert and aloof temperament but they must also be pliable and willing to work for and with their owner/handler.

In Aus we have what is called the ROM program to determine suitable breeding stock - they must complete 3 different parts to attain their ROM (Register Of Merit). These are their Australian Champion Title, Companion Dog Title and Working Aptitude Certification (Temperament Test). The ROM Committee and the National Dobermann Council of Australia see the ROM Program as our breeds future but it is not required to breed with an animal and I doubt that will ever be the case. Also the ROM, which is one of the most coverted and respected titles for a dobe to attain is not recognised by the ANKC.

The issue we have is with people in our breed cracking it when their dogs don't pass the WAC (Temp Test) and then bagging the test or the assessor (judge) and then instead of taking the information they get about their dogs core temperament and modifying their breeding program to select a dog or bitch with a temperament that will improve on what they have - they just walk away and keep bagging the whole thing.

In Germany dobes must have their Temp Test or they cannot attain their Champion title - so they must prove they have correct workability and temperament. I wish that dobes here had to have their WAC to attain CH Title - our breed would be in a much better place if that were the case. But I am part of a minority in our breed unfortunately.

Working lines in Aus would never title in the showring. People are importing working lines to bring in bone, size and substance, coat colour and temperament (though not sure that this is a priority) but it seems to be several generations before they get consistent type and quality through this process. It is interesting to watch what different dogs produce - both in type and temperament.

If a dog can genuinely improve on our breed in this country both in type and temperament he will be a very valuable animal but unfortuantely most seem to have very open pedigree's and they just cannot be expected to produce - hence the lack of consistency within litters.

Our temperament test does test a dobermann's core temperament and they should be intelligent enough to assess all situations and act with confidence and security.

[huski]

Beagles are still used for scent work, either in dog sports like tracking or for real work like customs with AQIS.

Sledding is a dog sport now but quite popular among Sibe owners and breeders

[carlibud]

Yes it is very disheartening isnt it

But no matter what test's are around for our breed test's you will always get people that will use bad temp dogs

Yeah good points Huski, love to see the beagle airport sniffing puppies LOL

Edited January 1, 2010 by carlibud

[huski]

Yeah good points Huski, love to see the beagle airport sniffing puppies LOL

Those noses can be used for good and not evil, sometimes

I think Daisy would really excel at tracking, I definitely want to give it a go with her but might focus on obedience for a while first.

[Ons]

lots and lots of coolies still used for what they were bred to do

round up sheep and cattle

my boy does have some instinct, he is awesome at rounding up the cats giving them "eye" first

I don't know about in Australia but certainly in England my uncle's labrador was used to go pheasant hunting and retrieve the birds

[Kanati Whippets]

My whippets all hunt and race (yes, they are also show dogs) when they are old enough.

They love it! I once had someone tell me that a show dog couldn't hunt and a hunting

dog couldn't show......I have 2 girls that proved that person wrong

[Pointees]

Hey Carlibud, I should have mentioned, mine don't just point.

But they do what they are bred for, the will point out game, look around for somewhere to hide, and run under the trees (The trees in our yard follow the fence line) and basically come out of nowhere and catch these birds. It is amazing to see, and they work as a team, one comes from one direction and the other comes from another direction.

Or if they are on the oval, they will quietly crawl up to the birds. Its funny to watch a Pointer with its belly on the ground walking across an oval, considering how green the grass is and how white my dogs are. But they catch them!

I think my two girls are pointees too Pointees LOL

They love to hunt all the grasshoppers etc and god forbid the birds that love to annoy them by landing just near them in the trees or on the garage roof .LOL

I do agree that there will be breeds such as in the gundogs etc that will always have the instincts in them for that ,as in pointing etc when they see a bird,

I guess it depends what you want from your breed as well, dosnt it.

Mine are a working breed, I want mine as family pets first, but I dont really want my dogs to work sheep and I'm not into obedience so does that mean I should'nt have the breed because it takes away from what the breed was bred for ?.

So thats another question thrown in for the topic

Thats great Gaylek that Dusty is so keen. But just proves something I guess that there is a boy like Benson that has such lines for it but isnt keen at all, but it certainly dosnt take away from him does it .

[carlibud]

Yep about Coolies , but are they actually registered with the Kennel control or do they just have their own registry ?? Sorry not sure about that one. Coolies are very popular up here at Taree.

I think its great with the whippy's, I could just imagine how they would love it LOL

[NZVizsla]

Yep. My Vizslas definitely could work their butts off. The drive to work, to find birds, to retrieve, to receive praise is so inherently strong.

But as you said it is easier with the gundogs.

[carlibud]

Thats funny Pointees' yeah I remember my English Setter girls doing that and think Hey girls everyone can see you LOL

I remember a puppy we bred years ago winning a class at the Royal with stiff comp after a bird landed in the ring, the puppy set the bird and was the only one to do it, and the judge said that he won it after he was unsure of the placing's because he was the only one who did know what to do as the others just stared at the bird LOL

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I think the debates exist in most breeds except perhaps the toy breeds. GSD people do have a reputation tho' for being particularly feral. If it helps, I think rescue politics and cat people give GSD politics a run for their money

In my breed there is greater division in western countries overseas, where there are established national coursing competitions in many countries and often major differences between people who breed for coursing and people who breed for show. Having said that, there are kennels overseas that do well in both. Windrush in the USA does well in the conformation and lure coursing arenas, likewise Hadi el Basher in Europe. And doubtless there are more I'm not personally aware of. Here in Australia you can only compete in lure coursing in QLD tho' many of us take our dogs to private or fun events to see how they go.

As I think I've mentioned here before I have an import girl in my yard who was bred by a traditional country of origin breeder for original purpose - hunting hare and gazelle. All her siblings who have been retained in hunting homes back in the middle east have proven themselves on hare and gazelle. I don't advertise this, and I doubt it would do me any good even if I did. My breed is a competitive one when it comes to "show" attributes, and I am small fry My girl is a few points off her Championship title and when she gets it, she, like my other dogs, will go on to other pursuits. I don't think collecting brick dust on my forehead in the show ring is a worthwhile pursuit tho' I do think achieving a Ch title on dogs you may consider breeding is worthwhile.

And yes, in their spare time all our dogs help keep our paddocks clear of hare and rabbit. If I had one that couldn't, I would not consider breeding from them.

Edited for clarity

Edited January 1, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Diva]

Many of the 'Eastern' sighthounds are still involved in hunting or live coursing in their countries of origin and elsewhere, not on the scale it used to be but to some degree. And many sighthounds lure course or race, not the same as the original task but a functional test.

The Scandanavian spitz type hunting dogs could still be hunting too, Finland at least is protective of the right to hunt and cherishes its native breeds' original purpose.

Some of European herding dogs would still work on farms there. And the livestock guardians are being used for their original purpose in places.

And the toy breeds of course - bred as companions, and still are.

Bits of those working activities take place in Australia, but not so much.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Diva

[Pointees]

Thats funny Pointees' yeah I remember my English Setter girls doing that and think Hey girls everyone can see you LOL

I remember a puppy we bred years ago winning a class at the Royal with stiff comp after a bird landed in the ring, the puppy set the bird and was the only one to do it, and the judge said that he won it after he was unsure of the placing's because he was the only one who did know what to do as the others just stared at the bird LOL

Lol, yeah. They aren't the smartest when it comes to stalking on an oval.

That is awesome to win a class at a royal because your pupp had natural hunting abilities.

There is no point to breeding something that doesn't do what its meant to do.

Your breeding out what it is meant to do... Its like, a Pointer who can't Point, a BC who can't work sheep and run all day, and a Malt cross who can't keep your feet warm.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

a Malt cross who can't keep your feet warm.

LOL - now I'm picturing working tests for companion breeds. NQ for that CKCS who just wandered away from their owner sitting in a plush armchair in front of the fire!