shoemonster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Awesome Rommi, thanks So to compare to the Protech C4, can someone smarter than me help me understand, or have I not got enough info? Nobivac DHP ACTIVE CONSTITUENTS: Each single dose contains at least: 104.0 TCID50 of live canine distemper virus (CDV) strain Onderstepoort, 104.0 TCID50 of live adenovirus type 2 (CAV2) strain Manhattan LPV3 and 107.0 TCID50 of live canine parvovirus (CPV) strain 154. Live vaccine to provide protection against canine distemper (CDV), infectious canine hepatitis caused by canine adenovirus type 1 (CAV1), canine parvovirus disease (CPV) and respiratory disease caused by canine adenovirus type 2 (CAV2). Protech C4 Canine Distemper, Adenovirus, Parvovirus And Parainfluenza Virus Live Vaccine http://www.apvma.gov.au/publications/gazet...-02_page_10.php Active Constituent/s: Canine distemper virus (Onderstepoort strain, 103.2 TCID50), canine adenovirus type 2 (CAV2-V197 strain 104.3 TCID50) and canine parainfluenza type 2 (CPI strain 105.3 TCID50) and canine parvovirus (Websters K3i strain, 105.9 TCID50) grown on continuous cell lines. Edited January 6, 2010 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I guess that means that there is not much more in the three yearly?? Or am I way off the mark? Scientific people please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I think that the three yearly vaccination is just triple the amount of the one year one. That means your dog will be getting a huge input of drugs. I have my boy Titer tested (hardly any difference in price) and it means he does not need all those drugs. If you go this route, check around with local vets as to how much they will charge (there can be a huge difference in prices vets charge). I have heard lots of mixed messages about titre testing as to its effectiveness. But this is definately an option. Just not sure where in SA they do it? What do others who vaccinate do? My dog had a 3 year vac and vet will do a titre when the next one is due. Glenelg Vets on Anzac H/way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Thats what I was thinking It seems like live canine distemper virus (CDV) 1yr 103.2 TCID50 3yr 104.0 TCID50 live canine parvovirus (CPV) 1yr 105.9TCID50 3yr 107.0 TCID50 live adenovirus type 2 (CAV2) 1yr 104.3 TCID50 3yr 104.0 TCID50 canine parainfluenza type 2 (CPI) 1yr 105.3 TCID50 3yr n/a I just dont know how the measurements works, ie, how different 105.9 is to 107.0, that could be a big difference or a small difference depending on how that unit is measured, I googled TCID50 but it was a bit over my head! I cant do a titre after the 3 years as my obedience club wont accept them however they have said they will accept 3 yearly vaccs (but who knows, by 3 years away maybe they will!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) I've put this up a few times but here it is again.. this is from Intervet and compares their Triennial with their Annual. Look at the 'to the power of' number... Comparison_Companion_and_Nobivac_virus_strains.doc in their annual, there's 100,000 parvo particles, where as in their triennial, there's 10,000,000. As to vaccinating dogs triennially with the annual, well it's done on a case by case basis and we discuss it with every client coming in as to whether they board and where etc. I have spoken to a couple of boarding kennels and one was happy to accept the new protocol so long as the KC was up to date. The AVA have issued the data telling us the core vaccines that were previously annuals, have been shown to last 3 years plus. The AVA also said that boarding kennels should be following vets advice, not their own, but we all know that won't happen and kennels can and will still refuse people. eta: those 104.0 numbers would mean 10 to the power of 4. Edited January 6, 2010 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Ok, Sorry Stormie, but I am making sure I understand! so the 105.9 is ten to the power of 5.9 and the 107 is ten to the power of 7 Therefore it is 1,000,000 and 10,000,000? Been a while since I did this at school! Anyway if that is the case it is a lot more? I contacted my vet hospital today and they use the Virbac vaccines and they said there was not much difference between the virbac yearly vaccine and the nobivac trienniel? They are happy to do a 3 yearly one, but will not do a yearly one and sign off for 3 years until the companies say that that is what they are rego'd for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 So from all the discussion I think what I am getting is that the triennial vaccine is much stronger than the annual vaccine. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Going from what has been posted, I think that is right, Rommi. It's a shame your vet won't do it, but I do understand. I'm not sure many boarding kennels will accept it as yet, hence why we have to discuss it with everyone that comes. The AVA said in their statement that the new regime would mean giving off label doses (ie using vaccines that were reg'd for annual use, triennially), but I'm not sure if we would have support from them or the vaccine company should a dog get parvo that we said didn't need annuals! It's a tough one! The thing is, I have no idea what that number of particles means. The difference in between the 100,000 and 10,000,000 might be quite insignificant in particle talk? And it's a different strain of parvo, so again, there might be a reason there's so many more and maybe the 10,000,000 of the new one equates to 100,000 of the previous one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ah okay thanks Stormie. Our vet will do only as the label is rego'd for due to accountability. They are also not going the trienniel route as the norm though, due to the fact they don't think people will take their dogs in yearly for check ups and the Kennel cough vacc's. They also said of the dogs on their books, they think around 1 to 2% would have adverse reactions to vaccinations. Interesting since I have had three with very mild to not so mild reactions. Also one cat that ended up very unwell with a high temperature and I never vaccinated him again. Anyway I think at this stage I will go with trienniel and see what panns out of the next few years. All the discussion is a step in the right direction even if it takes us a while to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Argggg just wrote out a long reply then accidently hit back and lost it all Thanks Stormie for posting that comparison again for us, Spoke to a vet today while in there with a friend getting her dog vaccs, he said he'd asked the rep the same, if it was a triple dose, and they wouldnt say yes or no, just that its within the min and max dosage that is required, so he wasnt satisfied enough with that to be reccomending over the 1 yearly. He did say he much prefered the titre testing, but I guess unfortunately until clubs/kennels etc get to know more about it, it wont be accepted just yet (I know a few are but not the majority, and unfortunately not my club) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think that the three yearly vaccination is just triple the amount of the one year one. That means your dog will be getting a huge input of drugs. I have my boy Titer tested (hardly any difference in price) and it means he does not need all those drugs. If you go this route, check around with local vets as to how much they will charge (there can be a huge difference in prices vets charge). I enquired with our local vets and it will cost me $260 to titre test my dog Not that I mind paying it, but yes there is a BIG variation in price with different vets. I believe it cost a lot more for the vets who use Gribbles rather than sending direct to Vet Path in WA. Kei is due for his 12 month booster this month and after a lot of thinking I have decided to give him a C3 only, then titre test as of next year. Kei had a reaction to his 12 and 16 week vaccs (C5) and I am still reluctant to vaccinate him but the vet that I spoke to believes that there is much less chance of a reaction to a C3 over a C5 and will give him an antihistamine before the vacc to further reduce the chance of a reaction. I have ummed and arred over the 3 yearly. It SEEMS like a good idea - but I'm not entirely convinced. Especially if it is 3 x stronger than the annual I do hope that I am making the right decision. There does seem to be a lot of conflicting evidence as to whether the dog needs the 12 months booster to achieve full immunity or not. I did read somewhere that a dogs immune system is not mature enough to develop immunity until after the age of 6 months (can't remember where I read that sorry so can't reference it). I'm sure that I've also read that Jean Dodds recommends the puppy vaccs and 12 month booster (then titre test), but then I think that someone here mentioned that she (Dodds) said that the 12 month booster might not be neccessary at one of her seminars?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmiller Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I spoke to a vet today regarding prices. The 3 year vaccination was $135, plus an anual $68 for kennel cough. The 1 year vaccination was $80, with the second dog done at $65. I would have thought the vaccinations would be a bit closer in price from what others are saying...maybe it is just my vet (which it is a bit pricey, must admit). Will go with the one year option as they are in there for their annual heartworm shot at exactly the same time. Probably save on consult fees. Should be earning a few frequent flier points out of my little guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Oh wow Kei thats expensive, the vet today said about $120 for titres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 There's two types of titre tests. One is more expensive than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 That's a pretty significant price difference I got a price difference from our wholesaler recently on the same company's annual and triennial, but I can't remember what the difference was, but I'm thinking it may have been something like $10 more per single vacc? Obviously then there's the mark up too, which is done as a percentage, so say for example the annual cost the vet $10, they might put a 100% mark up on it, making it $20 (plus then the consult fee). If the triennial was $20 per vacc, the same mark up would then make it $40 - so the customer doesn't just pay the extra $10 in most cases. Sucks, but it's a business and that is how things have to be run in most cases. We have found most of our clients have been really great with the changeover. The previous vet who ran the practice had most people on a C4, so we've changed a lot of them over to just a 3 yearly C3, but an annual KC and most are very happy with that. We are happier to recommend the KC now that is is mostly being given on its own, rather than hitting them with 5 different things all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Oh wow Kei thats expensive, the vet today said about $120 for titres Yes, I know :D They use Gribbles and I think that adds a lot on... I did consider doing the drive to Adelaide and having it done there, but by the time you add on fuel costs, day off work and an 8 hour round trip it's better to get it done here. I will speak to the vet again when I go in this month. From my understanding if they open a direct account with VetPath it would be cheaper (though I'm not entirely sure on that one ) If that's the case I'll have a year to work on them ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 For reference, we had the 3 yearly vaccine done last year. It was $59 for the C3 plus KC (plus consultation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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