Dol Breed Listings

[DerRottweiler]

LOL.

So you are saying....that the WORKING GSD....shouldn't have some sort of aggression......now I've seen it all.

"'Hey boy, go lick that criminal who is trying to run away!''

The word is used appropriately, nothing wrong with dogs doing what they are bred to do. Good on the breeder for being straight forward and more so, for producing working dogs of a shock, horror, working breed.

[K9Nev]

LOL.

So you are saying....that the WORKING GSD....shouldn't have some sort of aggression......now I've seen it all.

"'Hey boy, go lick that criminal who is trying to run away!''

The word is used appropriately, nothing wrong with dogs doing what they are bred to do. Good on the breeder for being straight forward and more so, for producing working dogs of a shock, horror, working breed.

Depends how extremely you want to vary from the GSD breed standard I guess

[Staranais]

Yes, I too have met working dogs that were PTS as being too sharp = weak nerves = fear aggression & dangerous. On the other hand, I've been told by several breeders (who seemed to know what they were talking about ) that a little bit of sharpness (reactive to stimuli) is a very good thing in a working dog (as compared to a sport dog). But I don't think anyone who knew what they were talking about would want a fear aggressive dog watching their back when the sh*t hit the fan. I have met dogs that have been inexpertly trained in defence alone, and the end result wasn't very pretty at all.

I am lucky in my own girl is very sociable & reasonably handler soft - I went out of my way to find a breeder who bred for social & stable working line dogs - she suits what I want to do with her perfectly. She'd still be way too much of a handful for the average family, though. Granted she's a working line mally, not a GSD, but I don't think she'd make anyone very happy if she were placed in your average pet home. And I suspect she's not nearly as hard or dominant as some of the really top flight military & protection dogs. Some dogs just aren't meant to be pets, IMO.

[Guest belgian.blue]

The breeder needs to learn to use a thesaurus.

[K9Nev]

Yes, I too have met working dogs that were PTS as being too sharp = weak nerves = fear aggression & dangerous. On the other hand, I've been told by several breeders (who seemed to know what they were talking about ) that a little bit of sharpness (reactive to stimuli) is a very good thing in a working dog (as compared to a sport dog). But I don't think anyone who knew what they were talking about would want a fear aggressive dog watching their back when the sh*t hit the fan. I have met dogs that have been inexpertly trained in defence alone, and the end result wasn't very pretty at all.

I am lucky in my own girl is very sociable & reasonably handler soft - I went out of my way to find a breeder who bred for social & stable working line dogs - she suits what I want to do with her perfectly. She'd still be way too much of a handful for the average family, though. Granted she's a working line mally, not a GSD, but I don't think she'd make anyone very happy if she were placed in your average pet home. And I suspect she's not nearly as hard or dominant as some of the really top flight military & protection dogs. Some dogs just aren't meant to be pets, IMO.

A lot have been trained in defence only, especially security dogs which becomes the reference often when describing the parents of a litter. Training produced sharpness and civil drive is not necessarily the product raised and trained another way. Generally working litters from experienced breeders will suit any application from a pet to protection dog and the higher prey driven puppies are selected for sport, but they are essentially the same dogs. Obviously having a working line dog as pet has it's challenges over a quieter dog, but often a working puppy in a pet home that wasn't accomodated for in training etc have behavioural issues surface down the track.

[tarope]

Just reading through the dol listings for upcoming litters and was very disappointed to read one that advertised this in their ad

These should prove to be incredible working dogs, with natural drive, aggression and balance.

Should we be promoting dogs in this fashion considering all the new laws they are trying to bring in, I am disappointed to read this as aggression is not a natural part of the GSD nature and shouldn't be promoted in this way

Didn't think I would read something like that on a Dol listing, maybe Trading Post or somewhere and I understand people pay to advertise here on Dol but should their ads be scrutinized more as I thought the aim was to promote healthy and well balanced dogs owned by responsible people.

I hate to see breeds promoted in the wrong way and that goes for any breed

Totally agree

Anyone who loves their breed would never claim them to be dominant or aggressive, especially today with BSL.

GSD's are not aggressive or dominant but wonderful family pets loyal, loving, very Intelligent and protective.

[carlibud]

Just reading through the dol listings for upcoming litters and was very disappointed to read one that advertised this in their ad

These should prove to be incredible working dogs, with natural drive, aggression and balance.

Should we be promoting dogs in this fashion considering all the new laws they are trying to bring in, I am disappointed to read this as aggression is not a natural part of the GSD nature and shouldn't be promoted in this way :D

Didn't think I would read something like that on a Dol listing, maybe Trading Post or somewhere and I understand people pay to advertise here on Dol but should their ads be scrutinized more as I thought the aim was to promote healthy and well balanced dogs owned by responsible people.

I hate to see breeds promoted in the wrong way and that goes for any breed :D

Totally agree

Anyone who loves their breed would never claim them to be dominant or aggressive, especially today with BSL.

GSD's are not aggressive or dominant but wonderful family pets loyal, loving, very Intelligent and protective.

:rofl:

So agree with you both here

Sorry but even working lines shouldnt be aggressive ;)

I hate to see AGGRESSIVE when seeing these adds as it may make people look at other breeders then and wonder OH what if they are aggressive too !!!

Surely the breeders of these lines would vet their puppy buyers before selling them a puppy. Or we should hope so

[Jeff Jones]

I fail to see a problem with the ad.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Jeff Jones

[BJean]

Just reading through the dol listings for upcoming litters and was very disappointed to read one that advertised this in their ad

These should prove to be incredible working dogs, with natural drive, aggression and balance.

Should we be promoting dogs in this fashion considering all the new laws they are trying to bring in, I am disappointed to read this as aggression is not a natural part of the GSD nature and shouldn't be promoted in this way

Didn't think I would read something like that on a Dol listing, maybe Trading Post or somewhere and I understand people pay to advertise here on Dol but should their ads be scrutinized more as I thought the aim was to promote healthy and well balanced dogs owned by responsible people.

I hate to see breeds promoted in the wrong way and that goes for any breed

Perhaps the advert wording is not the problem

but your own perception of the word 'aggression'?

Given aggression is a natural part of the dog psyche, how is it that aggression is not a natural part of the GSD

Can you explain why aggression is not constituent?

nb: The advert also contained these words:

natural drive; balance.

[kateshep]

Given the OP and many responses in this thread there is clearly a lack of understanding of inherited breed characteristics in gsds. Can I also echo the part of the advertisement where it mentions balance which might suggest the dog isn't a raving lunatic but perhaps they have solid nerves and are able to show aggression when appropriate ?

tarope wrote : Totally agree

Anyone who loves their breed would never claim them to be dominant or aggressive, especially today with BSL.

GSD's are not aggressive or dominant but wonderful family pets loyal, loving, very Intelligent and protective.

How are they supposed to be protective if they have no aggression I wonder ? German Shepherds are not Golden Retrievers, but it does not mean with the right handling they cannot also be loyal, loving and intelligent dogs with their families.

wolfgirl wrote: Should we be promoting dogs in this fashion considering all the new laws they are trying to bring in, I am disappointed to read this as aggression is not a natural part of the GSD nature and shouldn't be promoted in this way

So we should be expecting working breeds like the gsd to have no aggression, which if it applies to gsds it must apply to many other working breeds also ? we would want all dog breeds to act the same unless they go extinct first, would we ? This would all essentially be bowing down to this mentality in society these days and fear of lawmakers that if a dog is not loving and sociable with everyone there must be something wrong with it or we risk BSL ? A dog can have aggression but still be stable and predictable. A better and more justifiable option you would think is to educate the community so these dogs are given a fair chance, which would include people not jumping to misguided conclusions to quickly before speaking to knowledgeable people and doing some research.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but what I wrote, I meant it in the most genuine and sincere way. I think don't you realise in posting your thread in the way you have, you are actually in way unintentionally doing what you feared the breeders in the advertisement were.

edit spelling.

Edited June 15, 2010 by kateshep

[DerRottweiler]

Just reading through the dol listings for upcoming litters and was very disappointed to read one that advertised this in their ad

These should prove to be incredible working dogs, with natural drive, aggression and balance.

Should we be promoting dogs in this fashion considering all the new laws they are trying to bring in, I am disappointed to read this as aggression is not a natural part of the GSD nature and shouldn't be promoted in this way

Didn't think I would read something like that on a Dol listing, maybe Trading Post or somewhere and I understand people pay to advertise here on Dol but should their ads be scrutinized more as I thought the aim was to promote healthy and well balanced dogs owned by responsible people.

I hate to see breeds promoted in the wrong way and that goes for any breed

Perhaps the advert wording is not the problem

but your own perception of the word 'aggression'?

Given aggression is a natural part of the dog psyche, how is it that aggression is not a natural part of the GSD

Can you explain why aggression is not constituent?

nb: The advert also contained these words:

natural drive; balance.

Good post.

[Nekhbet]

I wouldnt be bagging out Integraguard here where it can be publically accessed. And yes I will mention the kennel name its only fair since they're being made to look irresponsible which they are NOT. They breed serious dogs for serious situations. Not every german shepherd is bred to sit on the couch for its whole life. Aggression has different meaning when we talk about working dogs - its fight not simply unpredictability. I dont see why Troy should get involved, are we now going to sanitise DOL of anything except pure showlines? I bet they pay quite nicely to place an advertisement on here as well.

We concentrate on quality over quantity and supply services such as the prisons, police and RAAF with functional dogs on a regular basis. Our selective breeding program incorporates some of the finest working bloodlines available today. Our training programs incorporate many techniques learned during our travels into Europe and more specifically along the lines of the KNPV program in Holland.

We stand by both our dogs and our training techniques for them. We strive to breed and train highly driven, motivated and healthy German shepherd dogs. Our preference is for a harder, aggressive, more civil than sport dog. Our KNPV style training demands a harder more stable dog than most. Suit protection work requires a higher level of fight drive, but also more stability and stronger nerves in our dogs; to deal with this extra stress placed on them. As well as being a highly driven, trainable dog, we strive to breed a harder line than most, more suited to practical security and protection types. Our ideal animals are balanced and stable, but more pronounced in civil aggression and fight drive and therefore not always suitable for every family and or sport home.

Personally, I would buy a dog from them. I also personally know the stud of the upcoming Malinois litter and he's fantastic, solid nerve, good nature and great drives. The owner would not be letting his dog be advertised on a website made by irresponsible people trust me.

[Aidan]

I agree that aggression is a perfectly appropriate word to describe these dogs and a normal aspect of GSD behaviour. It does not imply that the dogs are unbalanced or incapable of normal, social behaviours; and the ad gives further detail to this effect. If a person is not looking for this sort of dog they would be amply put off by this ad as has been demonstrated here - and that's a very good thing!

[Nekhbet]

they specifically state their dogs are not for sport or pet homes.

[DerRottweiler]

Good posts above again.

I think this is just a case of politcal correctness gone mad.

God forbid we use the words aggressive and dog in the right context. How about sooky and zero working drive instead!

[MolassesLass]

It might be an appropriate use of the word but I too think it's best for us all if dog people don't ever name "aggression" as a good/desired trait.

[Nekhbet]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Nekhbet

[shortstep]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard.

Edited June 15, 2010 by shortstep

[Nekhbet]

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

consdering the advertisement level of DOL, and the fact so many people know each other in the dog world I would say yes, some people would come onto DOL to see upcoming pedigree litters for sale especially as it googles well. The idea here is pedigree dogs, not just show dogs.

I added hard to the protection term. These are dogs used for manwork where you need a dog willing to fight, not just bark to make someone go away.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Nekhbet

[DerRottweiler]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard.

lol.

Is DOL a non-working dog forum now?

People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts.

Edited June 15, 2010 by DerRottwelier