Dol Breed Listings

[shortstep]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard.

lol.

Is DOL a non-working dog forum now?

People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts.

Interesting to know the military shops for their hard protection dogs on DOL. I would have thought they would have had connections with breeders who only work in this type of dog. Even using show dogs for this sort of work, very interesting indeed. I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired.

Anyway back to under my rock where the unknowing should always stay on DOL.

Edited June 15, 2010 by shortstep

[kateshep]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Agree Nekhbet, at what point does trying to appease the uneducated come to an end ? Will it come to a point when we are afraid to say we breed dogs with teeth no seriously, we shouldn't have to play down at their level because people don't understand. If people let it keep going in that direction it's just heading down along an unfriendly path for dogs and dog owners. There is nothing wrong with people describing these dogs as having aggression-( did anyone take notice of the wording balance and how many times stability was mentioned ) but people are made to feel it is, when these dogs and many many other breeds have been bred like this for centuries and they are far from crazy. There is however something very wrong and misunderstood with trying to suggest otherwise, that is the far bigger problem. Time and energy will be more useful when focused towards educating others instead of being afraid.

[Nekhbet]

they're not a military only breeder so they advertise to get their kennel name noticed. Why should they not advertise on a pedigree website? If I had the space I would be very interested in one of their dogs.

I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired.

wheres the page on the breeders site where you pop in a credit card number and wait for shipment of your pup. Hmm they put all prospective owners through the rigours of scrutiny to see if the homes are worthy of the dogs they breed. I find it dissapointing that people insinuate that working breeders must have lower ethics or something. They spend a lot of money to import, train, and raise their pups too you know.

The RAAF takes working lines not show lines. VicPol will take show lines if their breeders cannot keep up with demand they prefer Sch titled dogs, have their own kennel as well). They still have to pass a test in order to become a working dog.

at what point does trying to appease the uneducated come to an end

until we turn all working breed dogs into glorified stuffed toys, then sit back and reminisc about days gone by.

THere;s a lot more dangerous dogs which are stereotypically known as family breeds then working shepherds from registered ethical breeders.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Nekhbet

[DerRottweiler]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard.

lol.

Is DOL a non-working dog forum now?

People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts.

Interesting to know the military shops for their hard protection dogs on DOL. I would have thought they would have had connections with breeders who only work in this type of dog. Even using show dogs for this sort of work, very interesting indeed. I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired.

Anyway back to under my rock where the unknowing should always stay on DOL.

I wouldn't call it random, only the best of the best are picked.

[shortstep]

they're not a military only breeder so they advertise to get their kennel name noticed. Why should they not advertise on a pedigree website?

I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired.

wheres the page on the breeders site where you pop in a credit card number and wait for shipment of your pup. Hmm they put all prospective owners through the rigours of scrutiny to see if their dogs are worthy. I find it dissapointing that people insinuate that working breeders must have lower ethics or something. They spend a lot of money to import, train, and raise their pups too you know.

The RAAF takes working lines not show lines. VicPol will take show lines if their breeders cannot keep up with demand they prefer Sch titled dogs, have their own kennel as well). They still have to pass a test in order to become a working dog.

Hey that is totally twisting what I said. I did not say anything about the breeders.

I said I was surprised that dogs for military work were randomly acquired. This taken from what was said, that they use dogs from show breeders and other types of breeders for hard protection work. That is not saying any breeder randomly sold their hard protection bred dogs.

In some working situations dogs are breed for the type of work and these are the breeders people would go to get a dog for that type of work. That is the world I am used to, sorry to have questioned this about hard protections dogs if that specialized method of breeding and selection is not the case this area of work.

It really is a shame that no one can enter into a conversation without getting jumped.

Have a nice day!

[Nekhbet]

your point was misconstrued and I apologise. I answered your randomness Q at the bottom though.

remember not all working dogs are simply protection. Some are tracking, S&R, bomb/narc detection etc and dont necessarily need the level of fight that others do hence not ultimately requiring dogs from the same sources.

[Staranais]

LOL, has anyone noticed that (on the whole) it is owners of working line dogs who have said they don't mind the wording of the ad, and owners of show line dogs that don't like it?

Off topic but the cops here breed their own dogs, they don't always manage to meet demand I believe, but they do make an attempt to breed specifically what they want. I'm surprised they don't do that in Aussie.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Staranais

[aussielover]

I think the acerage pet owner would be put of by the use of the word aggression (which is obviously a good thing!)

[K9Nev]

'Staranais' date='15th Jun 2010 - 03:44 PM' post='4606651']

LOL, has anyone noticed that (on the whole) it is owners of working line dogs who have said they don't mind the wording of the ad, and owners of show line dogs that don't like it?

Not entirely . I don't have a problem with the add as I understand the context of the aggression reference. But having said that, I think advertising in that fashion is a bit "cowboy" and can understand why some think it's detrimental to the breed attracting the wrong type of GSD owners perhaps.

It's no secret that some security dog folk love a dog that lights up fast, sharp and civil dogs that are essentially leashed and muzzled???. You could achieve the same deterent factor with a fear aggressive dog with a bit of defense drive, but the question I have, are these extreme sharp and civil dogs a proper balanced example of a good working dog or just someone's definition of a tough dog???.

Edited June 15, 2010 by K9Nev

[tarope]

Given the OP and many responses in this thread there is clearly a lack of understanding of inherited breed characteristics in gsds. Can I also echo the part of the advertisement where it mentions balance which might suggest the dog isn't a raving lunatic but perhaps they have solid nerves and are able to show aggression when appropriate ?

tarope wrote : Totally agree

Anyone who loves their breed would never claim them to be dominant or aggressive, especially today with BSL.

GSD's are not aggressive or dominant but wonderful family pets loyal, loving, very Intelligent and protective.

How are they supposed to be protective if they have no aggression I wonder ? German Shepherds are not Golden Retrievers, but it does not mean with the right handling they cannot also be loyal, loving and intelligent dogs with their families.

Protective is a much better word than aggressive don't you think ? I don't think a lack of understanding of inherited breed characteristics is the problem here, as I own two GSD's. The problem is how the general public see the breed and how the breed is presented. I'm not talking about this add, I'm talking about the breed as a whole.

No one wants their breed labeled dangerous, aggressive or vicious as happened to the Pitbull.

If a young family wanted a GSD and saw an add saying loyal, loving and protective family pet (which they are) they would make inquiries to the GSD club in their state but not if the add said otherwise.

I was sitting at the vets today with my Rottie who is gentle as a lamb, no one sat next to us and anyone who came in walked right around us because people are scared of what they read which is such a shame.

[Nekhbet]

you think they would miss the fact 'working' was put in there a few times? The website also explains this explicity. The GSD is a working dog and in this respect is being utilised for one of the reasons it was originally bred for. I still dont see why there are so many panties in a twist.

[casowner]

As a puppy buyer I appreciate full disclosure of the temperament/qualities of lines and or individual dogs when they are advertised that minimises wasting the breeders and my time with enquiries that would otherwise go nowhere.

[K9Nev]

Given the OP and many responses in this thread there is clearly a lack of understanding of inherited breed characteristics in gsds. Can I also echo the part of the advertisement where it mentions balance which might suggest the dog isn't a raving lunatic but perhaps they have solid nerves and are able to show aggression when appropriate ?

tarope wrote : Totally agree

Anyone who loves their breed would never claim them to be dominant or aggressive, especially today with BSL.

GSD's are not aggressive or dominant but wonderful family pets loyal, loving, very Intelligent and protective.

How are they supposed to be protective if they have no aggression I wonder ? German Shepherds are not Golden Retrievers, but it does not mean with the right handling they cannot also be loyal, loving and intelligent dogs with their families.

Protective is a much better word than aggressive don't you think ? I don't think a lack of understanding of inherited breed characteristics is the problem here, as I own two GSD's. The problem is how the general public see the breed and how the breed is presented. I'm not talking about this add, I'm talking about the breed as a whole.

No one wants their breed labeled dangerous, aggressive or vicious as happened to the Pitbull.

If a young family wanted a GSD and saw an add saying loyal, loving and protective family pet (which they are) they would make inquiries to the GSD club in their state but not if the add said otherwise.

I was sitting at the vets today with my Rottie who is gentle as a lamb, no one sat next to us and anyone who came in walked right around us because people are scared of what they read which is such a shame.

IMHO, I think adds like that are appealing to a particular audience who believe that type of dog makes the ultimate security/protection dog. I personally prefer a calm, confident GSD of hard nerve strength with a clear head that can be trained in security/protection work with enough fighting drive to take a bite on command with the courage and defense drive to win the challenge. That's what I expect from a working GSD which I think is more consistant with the breed standards definition. Being a "working line" is too often the excuse for a nervy dog that flies off the handle in aggression easily seeing everything in it's path as a threat which IMO is incorrect???

[Jeff Jones]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard.

lol.

Is DOL a non-working dog forum now?

People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts.

Interesting to know the military shops for their hard protection dogs on DOL. I would have thought they would have had connections with breeders who only work in this type of dog. Even using show dogs for this sort of work, very interesting indeed. I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired.

Anyway back to under my rock where the unknowing should always stay on DOL.

Maybe you should read Nekhbet's post again.

[shortstep]

I think a few people need to go read up on working dogs and desired traits, as well as the meaning of the terms, before casting opinions.

We're not going to water down the whole world for the uneducated. Theyre advertised as not for pet, military and hard protection only. If you cant understand that then leave well alone.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL?

Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard.

lol.

Is DOL a non-working dog forum now?

People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts.

Interesting to know the military shops for their hard protection dogs on DOL. I would have thought they would have had connections with breeders who only work in this type of dog. Even using show dogs for this sort of work, very interesting indeed. I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired.

Anyway back to under my rock where the unknowing should always stay on DOL.

Maybe you should read Nekhbet's post again.

No I don't think so Jeff. I am fine with the how hard protection dogs are selected by the militray or others in the public sector that use dogs for hard protection work.

I also think it is fine to advertize breeding programs for hard protection bred dogs and use the word agression to discribe their temperament here on DOL, after all GSD dogs are not banned (yet).

Have a nice day!

[Kavik]

Whether the dog 'has bite' and how much bark and bite it has is also used when advertising working Kelpies (obviously referring to moving difficult stock).

[shortstep]

Whether the dog 'has bite' and how much bark and bite it has is also used when advertising working Kelpies (obviously referring to moving difficult stock).

But of course the perferred stock dog is a dog that does not need to bite to move difficult stock. Every bite is a potentially damaged sheep/cow and loss of $ to the producer. This is further demonstrated by gripping on the trial paddock as an instant DQ.

Edited June 15, 2010 by shortstep

[Aidan]

Being a "working line" is too often the excuse for a nervy dog that flies off the handle in aggression easily seeing everything in it's path as a threat which IMO is incorrect???

I know individuals who prefer this sort of dog. I don't think the majority of breeders of working lines think this is the standard to which they should strive though.

[Kavik]

Since it is mentioned as a positive (will bite if asked/to move difficult stock) I assume it is sometimes necessary and not always a bad thing

[Aidan]

The problem is how the general public see the breed and how the breed is presented.

I tend to think that if we stopped pandering to the vocal minority and just presented the facts the "public" would have a better chance of understanding. This is just my opinion though.