Merry Christmas

[shortstep]

Will be an interesting few months ahead in Queensland. The pet shop industry will already have worked out how to rort the system and it will be up to others in the decision making process to be aware of this and to put safeguards in place.

To date, only registered purebred dog breeders have been visible and accountable - the others (the majority) have been lurking in the shadows and have been answerable to no organisations.

No system is perfect but if this makes some of the others visible, and a little bit more accountable, then that has to be an improvement. Lets hope that the policing is adequate, because that will be as important as what is written into the legislation. Let's also hope that the Queensland Government are not completely snowed by the self-interest of those who see themselves as "peak bodies".

Souff

I know I can't wait for this to go through. We can all go pick up our next pup at the local shopping center pet store and have full assurance that Anna Bligh says it has been bred by a licensed puppy mill!

Edited December 24, 2010 by shortstep

[Souff]

Will be an interesting few months ahead in Queensland. The pet shop industry will already have worked out how to rort the system and it will be up to others in the decision making process to be aware of this and to put safeguards in place.

To date, only registered purebred dog breeders have been visible and accountable - the others (the majority) have been lurking in the shadows and have been answerable to no organisations.

No system is perfect but if this makes some of the others visible, and a little bit more accountable, then that has to be an improvement. Lets hope that the policing is adequate, because that will be as important as what is written into the legislation. Let's also hope that the Queensland Government are not completely snowed by the self-interest of those who see themselves as "peak bodies".

Souff

O know I can't wait for this to go through. We can all go pick up next pup at the lcoal shopping center pet store and have full assurance that Anna Bligh says it has been bred by a licensed puppy mill!

Well, if you cant get rid of puppy farmers and pet shops because of the protection they enjoy through taxation and trade practices legislation, then you might as well resign yourself to the fact that at least this type of state legislation has some form of accountability in place to rein them in a bit. Not a lot of room to move Shortstep, when you consider that some of the puppy farmers in the past have in fact been registered breeders.

There is no magic bullet but at least this legislation is not yet done and dusted and if dog breeders are half smart they will ensure that their voices are heard before the ink is dry.

Souff

[shortstep]

Will be an interesting few months ahead in Queensland. The pet shop industry will already have worked out how to rort the system and it will be up to others in the decision making process to be aware of this and to put safeguards in place.

To date, only registered purebred dog breeders have been visible and accountable - the others (the majority) have been lurking in the shadows and have been answerable to no organisations.

No system is perfect but if this makes some of the others visible, and a little bit more accountable, then that has to be an improvement. Lets hope that the policing is adequate, because that will be as important as what is written into the legislation. Let's also hope that the Queensland Government are not completely snowed by the self-interest of those who see themselves as "peak bodies".

Souff

O know I can't wait for this to go through. We can all go pick up next pup at the lcoal shopping center pet store and have full assurance that Anna Bligh says it has been bred by a licensed puppy mill!

Well, if you cant get rid of puppy farmers and pet shops because of the protection they enjoy through taxation and trade practices legislation, then you might as well resign yourself to the fact that at least this type of state legislation has some form of accountability in place to rein them in a bit. Not a lot of room to move Shortstep, when you consider that some of the puppy farmers in the past have in fact been registered breeders.

There is no magic bullet but at least this legislation is not yet done and dusted and if dog breeders are half smart they will ensure that their voices are heard before the ink is dry.

Souff

So what accountablity exactly will it place on puppy mills and ANKC breeders who breed one litter a year?

[Souff]

So what accountablity exactly will it place on puppy mills and ANKC breeders who breed one litter a year?

Not having seen a draft of this legislation, your guess is as good as mine at this stage. Would like to think that ALL dog breeders are more accountable for the welfare of the animals themselves, in the same way that registered breeders have to work to the code of ethics and not over breed etc, but this will depend on what the final wording is in the legislation.

[shortstep]

So what accountablity exactly will it place on puppy mills and ANKC breeders who breed one litter a year?

Not having seen a draft of this legislation, your guess is as good as mine at this stage. Would like to think that ALL dog breeders are more accountable for the welfare of the animals themselves, in the same way that registered breeders have to work to the code of ethics and not over breed etc, but this will depend on what the final wording is in the legislation.

Ok I will take your word for it Souff.

Edited December 24, 2010 by shortstep

[Mystiqview]

I wonder how many of these BYB who sell to pet stores will start selling online only? It seems a good way via some websites to keep yourself anonymous. No traceability.

When you see some of the dedicated puppy stores around here, you have to ask how many "breeders" of poodle crosses are actually on their books. One web site listed all these excellent designer mutts they were getting in the following weeks. It really is sad to see puppies advertised as a new product line like a new variety chocolate biscuit being launched by Arnotts.

While I against the principles of PIAA... IF and that is IF they are regulating their members, then hopefully that is a positive step. Something has to be done to make those people accountable for the mongrels they sell.

ANKC Membership and especially this new toted ANKC Excellent Breeder program should be enough for accountability for these drafted laws. Registered breeders already do and pay I think enough in membership fees and registration fees to council for permits etc... With the DNA testing as well.. It is really pushing out the hobby breeder in favour of commercial enterprise.

[KOE]

the mind boggles

Wonder how they are going to stamp out the registered breeders that happen to farm puppies for the market.

[Little Gifts]

Mystiqview I have no idea how a normal person can buy a puppy online. I wouldn't even buy plants for my fish tank online let alone a companion animal! But if that does happen then an outcome may be that less people see a cute puppy at a shop and buy it on the spur of the moment without considering the realities of dog ownership. And if you buy a dog online I'm assuming you may have to wade your way through the choices and wait for delivery so some people might also be put off by that. Or is that just me being a wishful thinker?

The other thing for me is that if I see animals in a pet shop in poor condition not only can I complain about the pet shop but I can also make a complaint about the 'breeder' (using that term very loosely). If that 'breeder' gets enough complaints then maybe they get put out of business? And it's not just the health of an animal but even the breeds they list them as. That pet shop owner was already saying he didn't want amstaff's so I can already see 'breeder's trying to pass off amstaffs as SBT's (just one example). That is not right for the dog, the new owner or reputable breeders of either breed. And if I see anything saying it is pure bred when it clearly isn't then I will also be complaining about that kind of misrepresentation. A cross breed is a cross breed and people shouldn't be paying for a pure bred if they aren't getting it. Surely that has to be some kind of legal misrepresentation of goods?

[Mystiqview]

Puppy Sniffer.

There are quite a few online websites dedicated to the sale of puppies. Email, photo exchange..

Many registered breeders advertise online as well. Difference: ETHICS

Biggest problem here in Qld at the moment, there seems to be a target/belief that AMSTAFF = PITBULL.. by the ignorant and ill-informed. So as a puppy shop, I can understand on one level why they do not want those breeds. I would not like to see those breeds sold by pimply faced kids with no knowledge of the breed and those who are suitable or not to own them. Amstaffs should be left to responsible breeders to filter the idiot portion of the wider community.

If a person selling an item is under the firm belief that what they are selling is X... then is it really mis-representation? If the person who dropped off those puppies said they were X crosses then.. unless there is doubt by looking at them.. then who is to really know what they are??

The only way to guarantee is DNA testing the parents, and then profiling. Something back yard breeders do not do. Many registered breeders do not either, but may be made to soon...

[Little Gifts]

Thanks for the online info Mystiqview. In my head I was picturing these BYB's and puppy farmers having their own websites with page upon page of the pups they have for sale. Didn't even think about the obvious 'for sale' sites but shouldn't be surprised - maintaining your own website would eat into those puppy farming profits!

I don't trust BYB's, puppy farms or pet shop owners when it comes to honesty over money so can imagine them working together to ensure a supply of popular breeds is available, so I can imagine the misrepresentation of a breed or cross breeds happening from both sides.

Two pet shops local to me regularly advertise litteras of pups as pure breeds and there have been occasions when I can easily tell by looking at them that they can't be. They put whopping big prices on them because of this and I think it is wrong and that it can have repercussions for the animal. Unless the parent dogs were both guaranteed pure breed then they shouldn't be claiming a pup is. I'm not saying it needs to say it is a cross breed, but it shouldn't say pure breed.

As for cross breeds there have been several 'what breed am I' threads on DOL from people who bought a pup and it has grown to look like something other than what the pet shop said was in it. I think this is a risk for anyone buying a cross breed dog of course given we know a bitch can whelp pups that have different dads. But say mum was a dalmation then advertising a pup as dalmation cross is the best that can probably be done. And a cross breed is a cross breed and sale price should reflect that. So many people actually think designer dogs are an actual breed and that their moodle is a pure breed dog!

[Mystiqview]

Puppy Sniffer,

Again the problem with cross breeds is generations down. Say G1 is cav x poodle. Some pups will look a bit like mum and a bit like dad. A pup from that is put to another cav/poodle that has a different bloodline to the first... Not only do you introduce different genes to the offspring, but the two dogs could be different in what we call style.

Now to make it simpler. My breed: border collies. Within the border collie breed, certain bloodlines have distinctive traits. How often do you see Oh that is XYZ bloodline?? Ok so you have line breeding and desirable (and undesirable) traits are more commonly expressed the more common ancestors are used. This is a line breed.

Now in my line.. you have two pedigree border collies that are different styles. BC1 has shorter coat, long hocks, longer body, long nose. BC2 has full coat, compact body, and square head. While all resulting puppies will be border collies and look like border collies, they will show attributes from not only the parents but other influencing dogs in each dog's pedigree. This is an outcross. (Or I like to say. Mixed bag of lollies).

The more mixed lollies in the mix when you breed, the bigger the variation in resulting end product.

The same can be said with these mongrels. It really depends on what the so called breeder is crossing when and what with. If there is a larger population of poodle than cavs then the puppies may look more like poodle than cav's.

To me.. Any dog locked up in those runs day in day out is cruel. There is no break from the tap tap tap on the window. They are not given the opportunity to explore, socialise and develop muscles as they are locked up in those small enclosures.

As a groomer.. don't I know about how some of these dogs are "pedigree" Cavoodles.. They are better than their true pedigree cousins. They are 3 or 4 generation pure cavoodle... hmm... Some will believe anything.