Rescue Dog Aggression Problems With Dogs

[ChristineX]

He sounds like an adolescent male with no training ..... I've one like that. That means training, training and more training. I'd agree with keeping clear of dog parks for the time being. I read a post on another forum - that said for some dogs, other dogs are the ultimate in distractions! Which means add at least one more 'training' to the chant!

How did he go on the weekend at the dog training??

[Kirty]

I would not be letting him off lead at all yet. You have only had him a few days - you don't really know him yet, he doesn't know you, etc. I just wouldn't risk it. Get him settled, get him into training and then consider letting him off lead.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

A kind soul just sent me a link to this dog's original profile. Any potential owners would have believed he was the sweetest and best behaved dog on the planet. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. And now we have problems.

Far too many gung ho people out there it seems, rescuing dogs from pounds that haven't been properly tested, not quarantining them, taking them to dog parks before they even know enough about the animal and selling them on - quick as a flash and making them out to be saints to tempt potential buyers. It is highly risky - I'm very worried about other people's dogs, particularly when a dog like this ends up in a dog park or breaking it's lead. I say it again - NOT GOOD ENOUGH. And it isn't the new owner's fault, it is the rescue group's responsibility here.

Edited January 25, 2011 by dogmad

[Nekhbet]

I personally think rescues have a responsibility to start training dogs for real life. Testing is one thing, I dont find it a good litmus test for long term rehoming if the dog is with you only a couple of weeks and gets passed onto a family with the behaviour the OPs dog has. Dogs should go out with at least sit, drop, walk nicely on leash and be dog/small child/small animal safe. If you cant say that or are incapable of doing it, get together with a trainer and start helping these dogs. If you are the rescue middle man, do the dogs a favour and actually HELP the dogs, pulling them off death row then quickly onselling to a family who will feel sorry enough to fork out for professional training and dealing with behaviour probably out of their league is not fair - rescues are meant to be the professionals. I'm in awe how many dont know about dog behaviour and training.

If this becomes part of the rescue responsibility we would probably see more dogs going to homes permanently and safely.

[_PL_]

love the new signature dogmad

Yes, I too worry about other people's dogs being exposed to un-quarantined un-assessed dogs. Some dogs bounce from home to home until one sticks. It's not an exact science but there are minimum requirements nonetheless.

'Saving' them is the easy bit but ironically is the one that gets most applause.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

love the new signature dogmad

Yes, I too worry about other people's dogs being exposed to un-quarantined un-assessed dogs. Some dogs bounce from home to home until one sticks. It's not an exact science but there are minimum requirements nonetheless.

'Saving' them is the easy bit but ironically is the one that gets most applause.

That's the way it seems to me too Anna. There is so much more to taking on a dog, it's an enormous responsibility to assess properly and make sure any prospective owners know all about the dog - warts and all. If the dog isn't trained to sit, stay etc I let people know. If it raids the bin - I say so. If I know that the dog isn't good with cats, I say so. If he/she pulls me on the lead, I say so.

One of the things I got on an abusive email from a DOL person last week accused me of just wanting the "high turnover" of dogs I rescue. That's the last thing I do, unless of course you call several months of fostering most dogs "high turnover"? My longest foster was a year, the shortest would be 3 weeks and that is a real rarity.

I'm more than happy to take anyone on a tour of the homes of dogs I've adopted out locally so they can see for themselves how the dogs are - all different homes but ideal for the dogs in question.

[_PL_]

PMSL yeah, you and your high turnover dogs. That's beyond ridiculous.

Hey, email me, I'd love to know who was brazen enough to accuse you of that.

[sas]

Just a thought....

The pound notes say he seemed to be ok with dogs in their kennels, it doesn't say he's ok with dogs face to face.

If the foster carer had dogs then that is a different situation than him being out in the real world and having self control and understanding how to meet and greet dogs in the real world - lot's of dogs lack the education and/or self control on how to do the doggy hand shake.

If he is over excited/anxious then that can lead to aggression, it's a fine line and that may have been what you experienced at the dog park.

Steve at K9 Pro has a training method called the Handbrake Method that teaches dogs such as yours how to act around other dogs etc.

If you decide to keep the dog I reccomend you get Steve at K9 Pro to help you out otherwise you could be battling this problem for a long time rather than enjoying your new companion.

Good Luck

Edited January 26, 2011 by MEH

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

MEH - the foster carer took him to the dog park within his quarantine period - two issues here:

1. potentially spreading parvo and other viruses

2. putting other people's dogs are at risk of being attacked/injured

Dog is advertised sounding like a wonderful and well trained animal which is not the case.

[chran]

Hi breezy, welcome to the forum. Your problem is close to heart - I also have a dog-aggressive (among other issues) 8 year old rescue. Like yours, his profile didn't mention the aggressiveness. Unlike yours, returning him was not an option so it took 4 months of constant training before he can sit next to another dog. So it's possible to rehabilitate the behaviour.

I believe that (some mentioned by others already):

• You trust the dog too much, too soon. He's a young adult in a new family - he needs time and leadership before he can follow your rules.
  
• Get strong buckle collar & leash (forumites suggestions are good quality). Only get training collar (check chain, dominant-dog, martingale etc) if you've been trained to use it properly.
  
• Read up TOT (Triangle Of Temptation) and NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) in this forum.
  
• Establish bond & pack structure - you're the boss, he's at the bottom of the pack. No compromise.
  
• Have a strategy in place - what to do when he's about to be aggressive (you won't have control once he passes his threshold). Some options: leash pop, LAT, BAT (also in this forum). This is the hardest as each dog requires different technique - this is where an expert can help you the most.
  
• Pick up his body language. Dogs don't lie. Watch for "staring contest". He will stare at a dog he's going to lunge at. Use your chosen strategy as soon as you see the stare.
  
• Do not take him to an off-leash area. Brisk walks only - play fetch/ tug indoor/ in backyard to burn energy/ exercise.
  
• Be patient - it took me 4 months (and ongoing) - the timeframe is up to the dog, not you.
  

Please keep us posted

[breezy]

hi all, after much discussion we have decided not to keep him. though we are committed to training any dog we have, keeping him will mean a huge amount of ongoing stress and concern. We feel though his DA issues may be able to be managed by someone very experienced, they are far too out of control now for us to walk him or take him out to exercise safely, particularly myself, and that is not good for him or us, as we are active and enjoy the outdoors all the time.

So we hope he will go to a home that will provide him with the training & environment he deserves. We dont feel his description matched his personality & the DA issue is a major one that will affect us everytime we take him out of the house. A walk we went on this week became a pretty frightening experience for us (and the other dog owners) & that was on the lead the whole time!

thanks again for your responses

[persephone]

Good ,if difficult decision, Breezy .

perhaps if you ask some of the rescuers on here, they may know of a lovely dog who will fit in with you well?

Best of luck .

[raineth]

Breezy, I think that is a wise decision

I'm sure you'll find a lovely rescue dog who is a good fit for you in the future :D

[Staranais]

Good decision, I think.

Taking on an already DA dog can be a steep learning curve, and often a heartbreaking and expensive one. I learned a lot of very valuable things from my own DA dog, but it was also an experience that I wouldn't wish on any pet owner.

[BMAK]

Tuff descision but deffinately the right one!

Dito, i wouldn't wish a DA dog onto anyone.

Maybe do a bit more research before picking the next dog find a breed that you like and suits your lifestyle and look for something similar in rescue, purebred or mutt i have had the most delightful cross bred dogs in my care they were just heartbreaking to think they were about to be PTS.

so don't think that because this boy you gave back was hard to deal with doesn't mean your next one will be aswell.

Just ask heaps of questions its the only way you get aswers.

PetRescue might help on chooing one go to the website

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

catherine.b - this dog was on Petrescue. My advice is to choose a rescue group that operates in a different way, ie keeps dogs for a longer assessment period. You want a "bulletproof" dog that is good with all other dogs and perhaps walks well on the lead.

Did this dog appeal because he looked like a black Lab? If so, perhaps consider contacting Amanda of Lab Rescue.

[dee lee]

I am so relieved for you.

Thanks for letting us know.

I wholeheartedly agree with those who believe rescue dogs should require more training and assessment before release.

I can't see that it will happen though.

Especially when I know of certain rescuers who have berated adopters for daring to complain that the angel dog in the description is instead a string willed unsocialised one- or one with extreme SA issues.

Just behaving like dogs, they are told.

catherine.b - this dog was on Petrescue. My advice is to choose a rescue group that operates in a different way, ie keeps dogs for a longer assessment period. You want a "bulletproof" dog that is good with all other dogs and perhaps walks well on the lead.

Did this dog appeal because he looked like a black Lab? If so, perhaps consider contacting Amanda of Lab Rescue.

Second time around we went with breed rescue (nsw Golden Retriever Rescue).

We decided on Golden Retrievers because we wanted as little risk as possible of aggression after our bad experiences.

We were able to outline our needs & went on a waiting list until an appropriate dog was available.

The dog and my family were matched- for us it has been a reaffirming experience with rescue.

[chran]

Thanks for the follow-up breezy. Hopefully he finds a forever home soon.

I wonder how multiple rehoming affects a dog; whether the dog would develop trust issues. In our case, Albus was a stray that ended in RSPCA, adopted multiple times then returned before we got him. He's mostly Cairn Terrier which should make him independent but very clingy even after we got rid of his SA. I'm curious if he's naturally clingy or becomes clingy because he has been left by his pack multiple times.

[Cosmolo]

I agree that more needs to be done to train dogs pre adoption. But try not to be negative about whether that is happening or not- i can tell you from experience that many rescue groups ARE trying to do just this. It is a slow process in many cases but it IS happening with many.

Chran- in my experience abandonment at a pound or a shelter can worsen existing anxiety issues but in the vast majority of cases, does not create them.

ETA- To those reading who have had issues with rescue dogs (that have occurred within the first month-2 months of adoption) that they feel they were not made aware of, write a letter to the head of the rescue organisation explaining your concerns regarding assessment and training of dogs in care. If the issue comes about after the first month or two- still contact the rescue group but recognise that in those cases there are often family dynamics contributing to, or in some cases causing the dogs behaviour. The issue with assessment is that you can take the same dog, place them in 10 different homes and get 10 different sets of behaviour. Thats why assessment is the first step- training AND matching dogs and owners is just as important. There are foundation elements of a dogs behaviour that are compatible with some people and not with others and i think these are often missed.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Cosmolo

[chran]

Thanks Cosmolo.

I'd also like to add that some (a minority of?) adopters are willing to put the effort to fixing the dog and this needs to be considered in the assessment.