poodlefan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Tomas: Dogs need structure and time,without calling people lazy,I never understand why people ever have issues. Is it because their dogs don't get enough mental and physical stimulation maybe? Or maybe there are genetic and socialisation issues that don't get resolved by exercise. The only thing I'd ever be prepared to guarantee with dogs is this - those folk who think they know it all with regard to aggression and dog management occasionally get humbled. Those prepared to guarantee on the internet that following a bunch of advice based on what they've never experienced in their own dogs do so at their own risk. Never say "never" Tomas. You might be right most of the time but somewhere out there is a dog who'll prove you wrong. Lets just hope its not another dog owner who gets to experience that. I've never had a serious issue with my dogs. I don't kid myself its because I'm the bees knees as a dog whisperer. Breed and management have something to do with it but there are some breeds and dogs where what you think you know just goes out the window. Furthermore, people with the skills of Cesar Milan don't grow on trees. Whilst the OP is clearly no novice dog owner, guaranteeing no issues with two male littermates without knowing the dog or the owner is a gamble. Edited May 25, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion 01 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 8 years ago I had an accidental mating of one of my Tibetan Terriers and my Chinese Crested Powder Puff, the result was 4 girls, I kept them all and that made 17 dogs in all, but we are now down to 8 with a lot of the oldies passing over the last two years. They were wonderful as pups and growing up and integrated beautifully into the rest of the family, as they matured they tended to do the sibling rivalry thing, and also tended to be their own pack, one bitch would like to be the alpha female, but as I am the alpha person with the dogs this has not happened. Don't know that I would deliberately get siblings, but the same age wouldn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I see your point Poodlefan,looked after aggressive dogs with my lot without an issue,dogs that can't go near anyone elses. Their owners were amazed,yes I exhausted them completely. Maybe I AM lucky,or maybe it's my good management :D Anyway,I am out of this discussion,time for bed,up at midnight for work. Tomas: Dogs need structure and time,without calling people lazy,I never understand why people ever have issues. Is it because their dogs don't get enough mental and physical stimulation maybe? Or maybe there are genetic and socialisation issues that don't get resolved by exercise. The only thing I'd ever be prepared to guarantee with dogs is this - those folk who think they know it all with regard to aggression and dog management occassionally get humbled. Those prepared to guarantee on the internet that following a bunch of advice based on what they've never experienced in their own dogs do so at their own risk. Never say "never" Tomas. You might be right most of the time but somewhere out there is a dog who'll prove you wrong. Lets just hope its not another dog owner who gets to experience that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 what wolves has to do with someone wanting to purchase litter mates is beyond me. There is an opinion that wolves, being closely related to dogs and studied closely both in the wild and in captivity, are a good model to draw on in discussion on social structure. Wolves usually have more than one cub so there is a valid analogy there. Though valid, there are a number of problems with the analogy, so it must be carefully considered and used accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Tomas if my one dog had not passed away I would have loved for you to meet her as she would prove you wrong. Professional behaviourists etc told me over and again they could not help me. No matter how much exercise etc she got she was a grumpy bitch who would go for any other dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Tomas if my one dog had not passed away I would have loved for you to meet her as she would prove you wrong. Professional behaviourists etc told me over and again they could not help me. No matter how much exercise etc she got she was a grumpy bitch who would go for any other dog. Just remember though Mason... that was totally your fault. Seriously, anyone who can write off all dog aggression issues as owner created needs to meet more dogs. Yes, some are. But by no means all. If we want to run with the wolf pack analogy, lets not forget that young male wolves who aren't content with no breeding rights leave the pack. We don't allow dogs to do that. Edited May 25, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If we want to run with the wolf pack analogy, lets not forget that young male wolves who aren't content with no breeding rights leave the pack. Which is pretty much all of them (with some exceptions). It would be hard to say they weren't getting enough exercise (although I wouldn't rule that out as a possible factor in the captive wolf problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I would never sell two puppies from the same littler to anyone no matter what. They do bond with each other more than with their owners. The main thing for me though is it's all great while they are young, but you will also have two old dogs who you could possibly lose close together. Too heartbreaking for me to cope with. I wouldn't put a puppy buyer through that. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If we want to run with the wolf pack analogy, lets not forget that young male wolves who aren't content with no breeding rights leave the pack. Which is pretty much all of them (with some exceptions). It would be hard to say they weren't getting enough exercise (although I wouldn't rule that out as a possible factor in the captive wolf problem). Conversely, if we wish to use African Painted Dogs as our analogy (an idea I think has some merit), its the females that leave. Sibling sisters will leave together to start a new pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 My thing is I find it extremely irresponsible to say that you can guarentee something about dogs and people you have never met, there are no guarentees in dogs or life for that matter. With some dogs you can exercise them all you like, but it just makes them fitter to do naughty stuff for longer. Exercise alone will not stop or solve all behavioural or training issues in the average dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If we want to run with the wolf pack analogy, lets not forget that young male wolves who aren't content with no breeding rights leave the pack. Which is pretty much all of them (with some exceptions). It would be hard to say they weren't getting enough exercise (although I wouldn't rule that out as a possible factor in the captive wolf problem). Conversely, if we wish to use African Painted Dogs as our analogy (an idea I think has some merit), its the females that leave. Sibling sisters will leave together to start a new pack. Strong, independent women in the animal world? Which post-feminist animal behaviour text-books have you been reading? I keep telling you, don't read anything published after 1965! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Strong, independent women in the animal world? Which post-feminist animal behaviour text-books have you been reading? I keep telling you, don't read anything published after 1965! How about something published in 1792 ;) Edited May 25, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yip i agree Poodlefan its not always the owner its sometimes just the dogs temperament. After my aggressive dog i have had another dog and he is the most non- aggressive dog there is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyla Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I have had a couple who got two males from the same litter a couple of years ago, and it has worked out fabulously for them, and they are so glad they did it. That being said I have a gundog breed that is very easygoing, never had any pack rank issues (I have no top dog), and the couple have put the effort into the dogs. Both owners do a lot with the dogs, it's not just one person doing everything. They don't have kids either, so all their time is for the dogs. There was never any intention initially for them to get 2, but after being on my waiting list, then meeting my dogs and the litter, and doing lots of research, they asked me the pros and cons of getting 2 dogs. I discussed the good and the bad with them, I considered them to be responsible people who didn't just do things on a whim, so the decision was made. Had there been an issue i would have taken the pup back, but there has been nothing but happy updates and lots of family pics from them. I would consider them in the top 2 puppy owners I have sold to. In my breed I don't see an issue with having littermates. I also bought a pup at the same time that I had a litter and kept one of the pups, and while the are good mates, they certainly didn't bond to each other over me. I'm sure in some breeds it would be an issue, but in mine, to responsible owners, I don't see the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVO8Gold Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Thnakyou for your comments. We have made our decision. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I met someone the other day who has two BC litter mates. They really regret their decision as the dogs are so bonded, the family barely gets a look in. They've started taking them to training individually and the dogs just fall apart without the other. Sounds like you're going to go for it EVO - so best of luck and be share to come back and post pictures - I bet they'll be gorgeous puppies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVO8Gold Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) The reason we are getting two is so that we can train them together as a common interest. Dogs are already booked into puppy class and will go straight onto obedience training at the appropriate age. i have talked to a very experienced breeder for this breed and with our experience she cannot see an issue and she has observed this exact scenario with this breed a number of times with complete success. We are not breeders but have had dogs as children and have had dogs for 31 years of our 32 year marriage. Our enviroment is very stable and we traditionally give our dogs two long walks a day and regularly visit a leash free park in our area for socialisation. Over the years I have observed very dog issues or fights in this park. Now being made aware of the potential pitfalls I am sure we can make this a success. I will advise our progress at a later date. Edited May 26, 2011 by EVO8Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 If we want to run with the wolf pack analogy, lets not forget that young male wolves who aren't content with no breeding rights leave the pack. Which is pretty much all of them (with some exceptions). It would be hard to say they weren't getting enough exercise (although I wouldn't rule that out as a possible factor in the captive wolf problem). All the documentaries I've ever seen on wolves and coyotes have left me with a different understanding (and just confirmed it with a couple of google searches). A wolf pack typically only has one breeding pair, but can have up to 15 + adult individuals both male and female. The alpha pair breed, the rest help raise the young, they are typically related anyway. I know in lions the males leave (or are kicked out) upon reaching sexual maturity, as do elephants (although of course no males stay with the herd at all so it's a bit different), but it's a different story for wolves. I have read that young animals may leave to find a mate and start a pack of their own, but that this is not the norm. I always thought that was why dogs fit in so well with a family so long as they are not occupying an alpha position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 The reason we are getting two is so that we can train them together as a common interest. Dogs are already booked into puppy class and will go straight onto obedience training at the appropriate age. i have talked to a very experienced breeder for this breed and with our experience she cannot see an issue and she has observed this exact scenario with this breed a number of times with complete success. We are not breeders but have had dogs as children and have had dogs for 31 years of our 32 year marriage. Our enviroment is very stable and we traditionally give our dogs two long walks a day and regularly visit a leash free park in our area for socialisation. Over the years I have observed very dog issues or fights in this park. Now being made aware of the potential pitfalls I am sure we can make this a success. I will advise our progress at a later date. If you're going ahead with littermates, I'd get one of each sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I will advise our progress at a later date. Don't forget to post pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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