What Can We Do

[RottnBullies]

I thought It may be a good Idea to start a thread, on what we can all do to try and help this situation. I honestly think this Is now bigger than just a Pit Bull problem and getting to a very bad point for all, and every dog loving owner needs to step In. I just don't know where to start, so maybe collective thoughts on how we can all chip in. Maybe we can post things such as templates for writing letters, e-mail contacts to who Is best to contact, or any other useful things that can be done etc.

I don't know just thinking aloud here and very very scared at what Is happening as I'm sure many others are as well Please contribute whatever you can as I know not everyone Is great at putting letters together for starters

I hope It's ok to post It here as this Is where It's all happening but will move It elsewhere If you think It may be better

Thanks

NB: Please If you don't have any positive thoughts to add on this post, don't comment.

Much appreciated

Edited September 9, 2011 by RottnBullies

[lokelani]

Great idea RnB!

I would love to help too, I just feel really helpless about what is happening, because I have absolutely no idea how to help, or even where to start.

[Dju]

I think maybe General would give this thread wider exposure?

[RottnBullies]

I thought about general but I honestly think It would get lost there, and no body seems to go Into the BSL section either these days anymore

Here Is a Letter Template that can be of use, It's geared towards the States but It can be changed/added to, to suit here

(TO:..insert name here) (address) (city, state,zip)

(FROM:..Your name) (Your address) (your city, state, zip)

Dear (insert name here):

To be useful, legislation must be effective, enforcible, economical, and reasonably fair. Recently, a bill (CITE BILL NUMBER HERE) has been placed before (RELEVANT BODY ie., city council, etc,)that would fail all of these tests. This legislation is motivated by fear and lack of relevant knowledge. .

The media and the inexperienced would have you believe that these breeds are vicious and should be prohibited. However, these very breeds as a whole have proven their stability and good canine citizenry by becoming 'Search & Rescue dogs, Therapy dogs working inside hospitals, professional Herding dogs and family companions for years.

Our Country was not founded on the restriction and punishment of the masses based on the actions of a few....when has this changed?

A five year study published in the Cincinnati Law Review in 1982, vol. 53, pg 1077, which specifically considered both Rottweilers and "pit bulls", concluded in part that:

..statistics did not support the assertion that any one breed was dangerous, ..when legislation is focused on the type of dog it fails, because it is ... unenforceable, confusing, and costly. .. focusing legislation on dogs that are "vicious" distracts attention from the real problem, which is irresponsible owners.

In light of this and other studies, we urge you to take the following actions:

1. Reject the current legislation, which is contrary to fact and distracts from the real issue, that of responsible ownership.

2. Actively pursue legislation that would render owners liable for the actions of their pets, such as a good non-breed specific dangerous dog law.

We suggest that the appropriate policy should be "blame the owner, not the dog." Owners can and should take responsibility for their pets.

Bottom line: the legislation proposed will not only be unfair for responsible citizens but it addresses the wrong problem. Voting for this proposal as it stands only harms the law abiding responsible dog owner.

YOUR NAME

[melzawelza]

I've been thinking about this all afternoon and I think we need to get a plan of attack absolutely. There's so many of us that are willing to stand up and fight but don't know how.

I think we need to contact people in other countries like the US that have successfully stood up against and beaten BSL.

Even contacting Karen Delise to talk on what she knows can work would maybe help give us some direction.

Looking at the approach the greyhound people took to get their dogs unmuzzled... yes it's a completely different situation but also similar. There has to be good that can come out of that.

Personally I've felt for a long time that the approach shouldn't be about the dogs or the breed - too many people either don't care about the breed or dogs in general - the approach needs to be about PEOPLE. We need to focus on why BSL does not protect PEOPLE from dogs - any breed of dog -, and then we also need to show them the alternative... i.e what DOES work (Calgary?). What people want is to not be attacked, so we need to convince them that the government are screwing all of us by taking the easy option.

[RottnBullies]

I'd also like to see some responsible pet ownership type adds run on tv during prime time, why can't the government throw money Into these types of things rather than spending money on a killing spree. Have there ever been such adds? Surely this would be one of the many steps In the right direction addressing the situation.

Also a national wide type Org set up which can be the bigger voice for all dog owners, Including lawyers on board who are willing to dedicate some of their expertise and time In fighting these kinds of legislation

[melzawelza]

Agree 100%. But before we can get the ads on TV we need to be able to convince them that It's worthwhile first!

[Tapferhund]

I thought It may be a good Idea to start a thread, on what we can all do to try and help this situation. I honestly think this Is now bigger than just a Pit Bull problem and getting to a very bad point for all, and every dog loving owner needs to step In. I just don't know where to start, so maybe collective thoughts on how we can all chip in. Maybe we can post things such as templates for writing letters, e-mail contacts to who Is best to contact, or any other useful things that can be done etc.

I don't know just thinking aloud here and very very scared at what Is happening as I'm sure many others are as well Please contribute whatever you can as I know not everyone Is great at putting letters together for starters

I hope It's ok to post It here as this Is where It's all happening but will move It elsewhere If you think It may be better

Thanks

Its a great idea R&B and I hope collectively we can come up with a few ideas ...because other than EVERYONE posting their thoughts to a special thread that can be then sent to as many politicians as possible ..on both sides of parliament house....I really don't know what to do. I say this because imo writing single letters to Ministers doesn't seem to achieve anything. I , as one of many others, have sent letters on various dog issues to various ministers ....but to no avail. My findings are Ministers do what they want to do regardless of what their constituents want...because as Australians, there is no bill of rights...so we have no rights.

So.....maybe instead of everyone sending single letters ...we could collect thousands of posts (letters) here and send forward them on to anyone who wants to listen.??????

[RottnBullies]

The next bill to pass In Vic Is the stricter penalties for owners, so they know It's a people problem, It would just be common sense for them to get some sort of campaign going as well to actually help prevent It all from happening In the first place.

And yes I often wonder do those letters actually get read I'm sure some even do read threads such as these on forums, but are they actually listening may be the biggest problem I feel. As you said Tap they end up doing what they want anyways.

We could sure use more animal loving people In Parliament In the right areas

[sandgrubber]

I think that doing a careful study of WHO to target and publishing contact details is probably more helpful than form letters. That tactic is much used by the US Tea Party, not to mention right-to-lifers, anti-gay groups, etc., and proven to be effective. I don't know Victoria and have been out of Oz for a couple years, or I'd do it. I also think that letter writing from a template is better than nothing, but a good legislative aid will notice that the letters all look the same and not read them. Sincere statements of your personal situation, if you have a dog who might fit the 'standard' are worth doing, and cc'ing to papers. I wouldn't worry about writing long letters (all the templates I've seen on DOL are, in my opinion, unnecessarily long). The office staff is just going to put the comments into piles and count the numbers in most cases. A short, pithy letter has a better chance of getting read. The pollies may not be the sharpest tools in the case, but they will have already heard all the arguments, and in most cases, already made up their minds. But they will want to avoid backlash from a small army of dog owners.

The other thing that badly needs doing is starting a legal fund. It is quite possible that the Vic Law can be overturned. Australia doesn't have a Bill of Rights, but both Common Law and various other codes of law are sure to have prohibitions of arbitrary seizure of property. In my reading there is no question that a Law that leaves enforcement to inappropriately trained people based on an arbitrary, appearance-based code is arbitrary. For this, it may be helpful to identify a good test case, eg, a sweet tempered SBT x whose sire and dam are known (even better if they are alive and DNA swabs can be taken to prove parentage), and look for donations to fight a test case.

[sumosmum]

We have a Charter of Human Rights in Victoria.

"Tuesday, 25 July 2006 (Melbourne): The Victorian Parliament passed the Victorian Charter of Rights and Responsiblities. The Charter will take legal effect from 1 January 2007. Victoria is the first Australian State to enact a Bill of Rights."

Don't think it will help much tough.

Victorian Charter of Human Rights

And here is the link to the Human rights protected by the Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities

Human rights Protected by the Charter of HR and R

Edited September 8, 2011 by sumosmum

[sandgrubber]

The human rights (as opposed to animal rights) side of this is probably better set forward in the testimony in the Vic Hansard testimony just before the Law was voted on

http://www.parliamen...August_2011.pdf

specifically p. 63, where the Hon (??) minister is trying to justify the legality of the provision, quote:

This amendment engages the right to property in section 20 and the protection against retrospective criminal laws in section 27(1) of the charter act.

Right to property (section 20)

Section 20 of the charter act provides that a person must not be deprived of his or her property other than in accordance with law. A deprivation of property is permitted if the powers which authorise the deprivation are conferred by legislation or common law, are confined and structured rather than arbitrary or unclear, and are accessible to the public and formulated precisely.

I'm not a lawyer and my reading skills are challenged by reading law. But I'd say you need to find and understand the Section 20 right to property and the rules against retrospective criminal laws to mount any sort of defense.

We have a Charter of Human Rights in Victoria.

"Tuesday, 25 July 2006 (Melbourne): The Victorian Parliament passed the Victorian Charter of Rights and Responsiblities. The Charter will take legal effect from 1 January 2007. Victoria is the first Australian State to enact a Bill of Rights."

Don't think it will help much tough.

Victorian Charter of Human Rights

And here is the link to the Human rights protected by the Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities

Human rights Protected by the Charter of HR and R

[Dory the Doted One]

Seek sponsorship from organisations with a vested interest in opposing breed bans?

eg. Vets, Petshops, Interested Pet Owners, Delta Society...Government ( ).

Raise enough funds you could conceivably run your own ad campaign.

[lillim]

I was wanting to put together a leaflet that explains BSL with the hope of distributing it to vets, rescue and pet supply places to inform the public about BSL and making it available to other people to distribute.

Because I don't think my knowledge of BSL or ability to put together all this information is fantastic, the process is slow.

I'm fine with designing the leaflet but not as competent as I'd like to be with everything else.

If anyone is interested on working on this with me , please PM me

[JulesP]

You can't do anything except ban people. No amount of tv adverts, leaflets etc is going to stop some dog owners from being morons.

Making people face manslaughter charges etc might very well have the biggest impact. Am already seeing a bigger care factor when out walking. People aiming for better control etc.

Unfortunately in the short term a lot of dogs are going to suffer. And that is the fault of anyone that has been merrily breeding pitbulls and pitbull crosses in places that have BSL.

[lillim]

You can't do anything except ban people. No amount of tv adverts, leaflets etc is going to stop some dog owners from being morons.

Making people face manslaughter charges etc might very well have the biggest impact. Am already seeing a bigger care factor when out walking. People aiming for better control etc.

Unfortunately in the short term a lot of dogs are going to suffer. And that is the fault of anyone that has been merrily breeding pitbulls and pitbull crosses in places that have BSL.

There will always be moron dog owners and people who own dogs that don't know how to raise/train them. I don't see the harm in trying to educate people that tougher BSL will not fix the problem of dog attacks.

I don't expect anything I do will change the world or how everyone approaches dog ownership, but I do feel that it is important to do at least something and not to approach BSL with a defeatist attitude and blame other people.

[RottnBullies]

I think that's a great Idea lilli

Unfortunately in the short term a lot of dogs are going to suffer.

And they don't need to nor do they deserve It, do you suggest we sit back and continue to let these Innocent dogs die

I know It's Impossible to try and stop morons, but that doesn't mean there's nothing we can do about It to try and help

That's just giving up and I'm sure owners good owners who are finding themselves In this mess are not going to give up on their dogs

And you're missing the point, this Isn't a Pit or Pit X problem only anymore

Please If you don't have anything positive to add to this thread, don't post, I don't want It to turn Into a negative, It's meant for people who want to try and help and do something. Thanks

ETA

Edited September 9, 2011 by RottnBullies

[JulesP]

I think that's a great Idea lilli

Unfortunately in the short term a lot of dogs are going to suffer.

And they don't need to nor do they deserve It, do you suggest we sit back and continue to let these Innocent dogs die

I know It's Impossible to try and stop morons, but that doesn't mean there's nothing we can do about It to try and help

That's just giving up and I'm sure owners good owners who are finding themselves In this mess are not going to give up on their dogs

And you're missing the point, this Isn't a Pit or Pit X problem only anymore

Please If you don't have anything positive to add to this thread, don't post, I don't want It to turn Into a negative, It's meant for people who want to try and help and do something. Thanks

ETA

Not wanting to listen to other people's views is not going to help your cause.

[RottnBullies]

Not wanting to listen to other people's views is not going to help your cause.

And are you listening! Read the OP post, It's about what can we do to help. You're stating that nothing can be done, so If you wish to start another on your thoughts please do so

[sumosmum]

This is a problems for owners of all dogs now. With this standard, so many other dogs have been put in danger. And there is also the chance that this standard can be changed at some time to put even more types of dogs at risk.

There are things we can do to try and get the Government and the population to listen. Local papers, writing to MPs and also writing to the opposition, to get some sort of discussion going on this is a start. Don't just let it slide through without a whimper.

It is the fault of irresponsible dog owners that this has happened. Dog owners of all dogs, that have done the wrong thing, have brought this down on us.