Dog Pees On People I Don't Like...

[Bisart Dobes]

We have had a couple of instances with two of our dogs have blocked people in our house.

1. Mother & Father inlaw staying - through the night they wanted to get up to go to the bathroom and this boy (Khann rip) wouldn't let them out of the bedroom. He wasn't growling or anything like that - just had that stance that said 'don't do it' !. The next day they decided to sit outside to have their coffee and this dog wouldn't let them in the house again. (Now I don't get on that well with this set of inlaws (I have 3 sets !!! long story) & they haven't stayed again - LOL).

2. Have had one of our girls (Rhemy) block someone from touching her puppies - everyone else who had come to see these pups she would proudly show them to where they were and bought toys to play with both the pups and Rhemy - but with this person, no this person was not going near her puppies. She got put on lead and put away but this person didn't get a puppy.

Dobermanns have an inate ability to read people and to assess your feelings about a situation or person -so this behaviour doesn't suprise me (not labeled the dog with the human brain for no reason). BUT his behaviour is way over the top - I would suggest some serious obedience training and learning of the rules. While he is learning good manners - he needs to be put away from the people he doesn't like (or perhaps take his advice and remove the 'bad' people from your life - LOL).

Can your breeder help you with the training / behaviour ? It needs to be someone who understands Dobermanns. Good luck.

Sammy is a clever boy - believe it or not he is now training to get his CCD title (having passed the 5 grades below that level). He also does agility. When he is with me and I want to work, he is amazing. I can teach him a new trick in less than a minute, and he will remember that even if I am too lazy to practice again for weeks. But if I'm not on my game, well neither is he. And I'm not going to lie, anyone who has met me will know that I'm a very happy and active person, and I find a lot of situations funny that I shouldn't so as usual, nothing wrong with Sammy - he is just my mirror.

When I'm nervous, I bite my nails. With relocation, a new job and a couple of personal issues, I have been doing it a lot in recent months. My dog has now started chewing on his paws. We took him to the vet - nothing physically wrong with him and my partner is convinced he is copying me. He yells at us both to stop biting our 'fingers'. Sammy just copies and follows me everywhere.

These people can sadly not be removed from my life - it probably doesn't help that I have several friends who are virtually at the point of wanting to attack these people for some of the things they have done to me - and these are people who have never been in fights (ie not violent). You know you have to be civil in these situations, not that they are, but I don't think I would ever be able to tell Sammy off properly for peeing on them or their stuff so I will just have to keep him away from them.

Ok - my first response was polite and obviously a bit soft. If your dog is so smart then he can learn how to behave in a civil manner and have good house manners. I would never except this kind of behaviour from our dogs - I would never accept any of our dogs not listening and responding to either myself or my partner - yes, some are bonded more with one or the other but that happens, they all do as they are asked.

You do not have to be hard to have control over your dog you just have to be the leader - he doesn't accept this at all, he is the leader. He is in charge and he sucks up to you because he knows that you are the one who will let him get away with it. He is acting in a dominant manner and needs to be under control. Dogs in general are much happier when they have a leader and they know their place in the pack.

It is very easy for a dog displaying this behaviour to step up and adminster what they see as the next step - biting someone to get the point across (NOT saying that your boy would or ever will but you cannot put your dog in that situation - you just cannot!).

As for licking / chewing his feet - this needs to be stopped straight away. This is a behaviour that is displayed by a stressed dog - don't think this is cute and that he is just copying you. With dobes in particular this can become a complusive obsessive behaviour - have never had one myself but have seen a couple who have really damaged themselves - one had a hole in its flank that was open and bleeding and another chewed its leg and exposed the bone.

You need to get help with your boy - contact his breeder they should be able to step up and help you - that is what we are here for !!

I hope there is a positive outcome to this whole situation.

[sausy.dog]

You need to get help with your boy - contact his breeder they should be able to step up and help you - that is what we are here for !!

I think he has been described as a dobe x in other threads.

I am curious, what is his mix?

[Bisart Dobes]

You need to get help with your boy - contact his breeder they should be able to step up and help you - that is what we are here for !!

I think he has been described as a dobe x in other threads.

I am curious, what is his mix?

One post said Dobermann so I assumed that was purebred .

[jacqui835]

Yet again someone posting and not likeing the responses, so ignoring them, or making excuses.

Your dog is exibiting dangerous behaviour, stop humanising it and do something about it before as PF says he ups the anti

I agree with everything that has been said - except for perhaps about my dog being dangerous. I know people always say that about their own dogs, but truly, this is a dog that catches rabbits and doesn't know what to do with them, has had small children jump on his back (no I wasn't happy about it) and turned around to lick their faces but that said he has scratched people with his claws - one guy asked him to jump up on him at the beach (had never met him before), Sammy of course obliged and the guy got scratched - then he asked him to do it again...

He's not neutered and won't be getting neutered or bred from - he has perfect recall even around bitches on heat and doesn't have any DA or HA. I don't feel there are any health benefits and I love his drive. Any dog can be dangerous but ask anyone here who has met him if they could see him turning on someone - deliberately intending to inflict harm. Now of course they're animals and like us they can unpredictable but well where do you draw the line?

I know that the problem is me - I wondered if like it was a common thing for dogs to pee on people their owners hated - I have seen dogs pee on random people at the park but this is different - this is only people that have wanted to negatively impact on my life - they have both been alcholics, one is trying to avoid child support and his children - they're just not nice people. I am a passionate person if you like, I think that people I haven't met yet are potential friends and my dog has the same attitude. But if you hurt me or my family or someone I care about, I don't forget it and I certainly can't forgive it. So no, I don't really care that my dog has peed on these people and that is the problem. He peed on people maybe 3 times in his whole life. He has peed on the belongings of one of them many many times and it was wrong but obviously I can't hide how I feel about someone from my dog. I will make sure he is not with me when I have to deal with these people.

If someone screams at my dog or gets really scared, he runs away from them and comes looking for guidance. If they just act silly, like saying "oh nice doggy, here you want some food doggy please don't eat me doggy" well he follows them around and accepts the food they give him.

Thank you for the advice. It is hard over the internet when you haven't met the dog, but I love the passion of everyone here for their dogs and I think you were all spot on. I don't discipline him for this the way I do for things that I think are really bad, and he notices the difference. I just wanted to know if this happened to anyone else, and how they handled it.

Edited October 5, 2011 by jacqui835

[persephone]

Who knows why he does that, we are trying to stop him.

and if you do NOT know why he is doing it - how can you stop him?

To stop him .. not just prevent him /temporarily distract him , you need to find out what's going on with him ....

[Andisa]

Breed or titles has nothing to do with this behavior - he is marking people and their belongings which is shows lack of respect. He is obviously a smart dog and he needs to learn to use his manners.

When Hamish (entire male Rottweiler) came back home at 15 months old he was already displaying the same bad behavior - he even pissed on me at dog training the first night I took him - and tried several other times that night. That went down like a lead balloon, it was an obvious sign that he lacked respect for me and everyone else that he had got away with doing it to. I called him all sorts of names and told his I hated him and more importantly told him that things are going to change big time and they did. All "freebies" (free affection) stopped and I treated him like a DOG! The only rewards or affection he got from me were earned - unfortunately for him I will hold a grudge so it took a bloody long time until he got on my good side again - now I absolutely love him :D .

I would be furious if someones dog pissed on me or my things - I would never allow my dog to get away with it. Yes males will cock their legs but they can learn what is and what is not acceptable - no excuse for pissing on people...like them or not!

Edited October 5, 2011 by Andisa

[poodlefan]

The fact that you allow your dog to behave unacceptably towards people tells me quite a bit about who's running the show between you. A dog is not a method of furthering your likes and dislikes because you don't have the courage to confront these people. That's what's happening now.

You allow your dog to display territorial dominance and to intimidate people you don't like. Dress it up anyway you like but that's what he's doing and right now you don't know how far he'll take the behaviour or what he'll do if one of those people decides to call him on it.

Seriously think about the consequences of this pattern of behaviour and shut it down. You really don't want to be one of those folk we see on the front page of the newspaper going "but Sammy was a lovely dog who never hurt anyone". There's a pattern of behaviour here that should worry you and does worry people who know a fair bit about dogs. There's always a first time a dog decides to bite and you seriously do not want to be tolerating behaviour that might encourage that incident to occur.

[jacqui835]

Ok - my first response was polite and obviously a bit soft. If your dog is so smart then he can learn how to behave in a civil manner and have good house manners. I would never except this kind of behaviour from our dogs - I would never accept any of our dogs not listening and responding to either myself or my partner - yes, some are bonded more with one or the other but that happens, they all do as they are asked.

You do not have to be hard to have control over your dog you just have to be the leader - he doesn't accept this at all, he is the leader. He is in charge and he sucks up to you because he knows that you are the one who will let him get away with it. He is acting in a dominant manner and needs to be under control. Dogs in general are much happier when they have a leader and they know their place in the pack.

It is very easy for a dog displaying this behaviour to step up and adminster what they see as the next step - biting someone to get the point across (NOT saying that your boy would or ever will but you cannot put your dog in that situation - you just cannot!).

As for licking / chewing his feet - this needs to be stopped straight away. This is a behaviour that is displayed by a stressed dog - don't think this is cute and that he is just copying you. With dobes in particular this can become a complusive obsessive behaviour - have never had one myself but have seen a couple who have really damaged themselves - one had a hole in its flank that was open and bleeding and another chewed its leg and exposed the bone.

You need to get help with your boy - contact his breeder they should be able to step up and help you - that is what we are here for !!

I hope there is a positive outcome to this whole situation.

My OH can control the dog to an extent. If he wants the spot on the couch, he can kick him off with words alone, the dog moves out of his way etc, doesn't try to block him or anything like that. If OH walks towards dog, dog backs off, if OH is threatening or angry about it, dog will even roll over on occasion - if cornered and he can't run away. If he can though, he will try to make a run for it and run for me. I have never not supported his commands - what more can I do? If I am there, the dog will look at me when issued a command by someone else to see what I think of it - what can I do about that? If Dan says sit and Sammy looks at me I say yes sit and he sits. Maybe we need to go to a new training club because the trainers we see just say that Sammy is a typical working doberman, he works for one person. My partner says I'm our pack leader - the dog is still at the bottom, below us, below the cat, but my partner who is a lawyer says Sammy likes to try for appeals to the higher courts...

However, say the dog is off-lead at the park. If OH calls, there is a 50/50 chance he will return. If I call my dog, he comes, he sprints to me.

If OH asks dog to get in the bath, he runs and hides. If I ask, dog puts tail between his legs, head hangs low, gets in bath.

I think I'm quite dominant over Sammy, I can get him to spit out a kangaroo steak mid chew (his favourite food) and no matter what the command, if I want it obeyed, I can get it. I think the problem is simply if I don't care I can't fake it with the dog, and it's not my words, it's the feeling behind my words. I don't hit him or anything, all we do is say you are a naughty boy (it makes him look very sad and crouch or roll over) and if he's been absolutely appalling - ie moved a gardening glove or something he shouldn't have touched well he gets isolation for like 1 minute (that's the only thing that makes him upset).

eta - he has never peed on me, damaged anything of mine (except one box when we first brought him home and one thong (the shoe lol) on the first day I had to leave him at home for work). He also can not ask for attention. If we think he wants attention, we call him to us, make him sit or do some sort of trick and then he gets his love and affection - he has been on NILIF since day 1 (no kidding, he sat for a piece of chicken the day we picked him up).

Edited October 5, 2011 by jacqui835

[persephone]

Ok .. you have trained your dog to do stuff...

that's good.

BUT his running away , his peeing, his leaning, his 50/50 recall ..all sorts of things are suggesting to me that help is needed.

You have also said "What else can I do?" "Who knows why he does that/"

well, that is why people enlist the services of trained professionals!!

professionals who will observe your dog at home, with you.

professionals who will then be able to teach YOU behaviours and strategies to make your family a much more even functioning one ..and also help your dog smooth out all his responses, instead of what's happening now .

They won't ruin what you & your dog have ..they will help you make it BETTER!

[jacqui835]

Well... I wouldn't be so quick to write it off as dominant, antagonistic, or threatening behaviour.

I have known male dogs that mark when they are uncomfortable in their surroundings. They aren't especially discriminatory as a general rule, but that's not to say they wouldn't target areas that smell strongly of someone they are not comfortable with, be that human or dog. It must make them feel better to smell themselves when all around them are smells that unsettle them. Add to that the paw chewing, which absolutely can be a sign of anxiety, and I'm not seeing a dominant dog. I'm seeing an anxious dog.

As for the antagonistic behaviour towards people that are frightened of him, I have a dog that is positively drawn to people who don't want to talk to him. I honestly think he just reads tension in their bodies, or just sees someone behaving strangely and he has to go and sticky beak. I don't think it's odd at all that he gets in their personal space. He doesn't understand what they are on about and being the social fellow he is who has had nothing but good experiences with people, he doesn't even hesitate in going over there for a closer look. What's he got to lose? He will lean on people and get way too close to their food if he thinks he might be allowed to sneak a morsel. He doesn't have much sense of personal space. He gets told to go away and he does, but I can't guarantee it would work with someone who wasn't confident around him or who was drawing away from him. That kinda looks like withdrawing from the food to leave a space open for him to have a go. This is how dogs read each other all the time. If they are ready to let someone else have a go at their resource, they move away from it. If they are not, they hover over it and don't open a space for another dog to enter. Standing too close is pushy in my mind. It's like saying "Hey. I'm pretty sure you're done, right?" So I don't stand around and let it happen because I'd hate for that behaviour to be rewarded, but I wouldn't be especially concerned about it. It might be a red flag for a very confident dog, but hey, I like very confident dogs.

It completely does not surprise me that he runs away if the person who copped a marking tries to tell him off. They have no history with him like you do. If he's run away and been safe once, he'll keep doing it.

All that said, though, I haven't seen him so I don't know what is driving his behaviour. Just ideas.

That's probably exactly right - he knows they don't live with us and he gets away with peeing on the people I don't like. He's sneaky about it, so he knows it's not ideal - it's not like he will do it with me watching. But if I'm not there, well I guess he knows there's nothing to lose really and everything to gain - peeing on people must be very satisfying for dogs. I always just thought it was weird that he doesn't pee on randoms when he has so many opportunities - people I have never met nor introduced him to, liked or disliked etc. It's just the ones who are nasty.

I like my dog being confident too, but I tell him off for this behaviour. The thing is, there is no problem if the people don't make silly noises and back away from the dog continually - I think he half thinks they want to play. If I back away from Sammy and haven't told him not to, he will come closer - it's how we taught him come! If someone is not enjoying my dog, whether I think he's great or not I don't think it's fair to impose on them. But I am also reluctant to isolate him from everyone for the whole day so it's one that I will have to monitor carefully. I think moving forward he will just be on lead unless I'm in the room with everyone (I tend to get stuck in the kitchen).

[persephone]

I think moving forward he will just be on lead

..IF your dog feels threatened /uncomfortable by these people .. OR if he is feeling a bit aggro , then having power taken away /his flight path removed by being on leash MAY not be the right thing to do.

Playing around with all sorts of fixes might help - or it might mean even more confusion/stress for your dog ...and a worse outcome.

*broken record*

contact a recommended professional.

Please.

Edited October 5, 2011 by persephone

[corvus]

Breed or titles has nothing to do with this behavior - he is marking people and their belongings which is shows lack of respect. He is obviously a smart dog and he needs to learn to use his manners.

Marking people is not necessarily a lack of respect. Obviously it would be if a human did it, but we need to not jump to conclusions just because it's something that's very rude to us. We don't know how the dog views a human leg or a coat over a chair. Like I said before, sometimes dogs do it when they are feeling insecure. We don't know how their perception of the world may change with their emotional state.

I would be furious if someones dog pissed on me or my things - I would never allow my dog to get away with it. Yes males will cock their legs but they can learn what is and what is not acceptable - no excuse for pissing on people...like them or not!

Truly, sometimes dogs don't know how to behave and they default to instinctive behaviours. I'm not saying we should excuse it and do nothing about it, but I am saying that sometimes these things can be an indicator of a disturbed, frightened, unsettled, anxious or uncomfortable dog. I don't think that dogs should be punished for feeling like that, regardless of the behaviour that comes as a result of those feelings. Yes, sometimes dogs just need to be taught that people's stuff is not a pee-mail box, but it's not always as simple as that. If a dog is behaving that way because they are anxious, shouting at them, calling them names and so on is most likely going to make it worse if it does anything at all. Even if you manage to suppress the marking behaviour, do you think you have dealt with the underlying emotional state?

Incidentally, Kivi marked someone's leg, once. It was indicative of a lack of aim! He was going for the bench the guy was sitting on. I was still mortified, but it's the only time he's ever done it and I'm not gonna hustle him into a rigid NILIF program on the off chance that it was a display of a lack of respect for this poor stranger sitting on a bench that Kivi did not even look at.

[poodlefan]

Truly, sometimes dogs don't know how to behave and they default to instinctive behaviours. I'm not saying we should excuse it and do nothing about it, but I am saying that sometimes these things can be an indicator of a disturbed, frightened, unsettled, anxious or uncomfortable dog. I don't think that dogs should be punished for feeling like that, regardless of the behaviour that comes as a result of those feelings. Yes, sometimes dogs just need to be taught that people's stuff is not a pee-mail box, but it's not always as simple as that. If a dog is behaving that way because they are anxious, shouting at them, calling them names and so on is most likely going to make it worse if it does anything at all. Even if you manage to suppress the marking behaviour, do you think you have dealt with the underlying emotional state?

So you can't catch the dog in the act and discipline it but you can't do nothing. This is occurring in the dog's home and not to every visitor.

Practically speaking Corvus, what's your solution?

[lic_82]

You've come here and asked for opinions and help.... you're response is to argue and ignore advice..

What exactly was it that you wanted people to tell you?

[corvus]

So you can't catch the dog in the act and discipline it but you can't do nothing. This is occurring in the dog's home and not to every visitor.

Practically speaking Corvus, what's your solution?

Depends on the origin of the behaviour, obviously. I sense you are asking what I would do if I thought the behaviour had its origins in insecurity or anxiety of some sort. It would depend on whether it was general anxiety or anxiety that could be traced to specific sources. If specific sources, counter-conditioning is always a good place to start. If general, interrupt. Our Min Pin visitor marks inside several times every single time he visits. I keep a sharp eye on him and if he looks like he's giving something a good sniff I distract him before he can lift his leg. Hopefully. He settles down within the first 12 hours and the behaviour stops on its own.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

jacqui835

It's clear you know how to train your dog to do what you want, so consider what you have been training your dog to do (inadvertantly?) in these situations. Consider training your dog to do something that is more socially acceptable instead.

If someone screams at my dog or gets really scared

Your dog could also be in danger from the frightened someone. It's nice that you're confident he won't hurt them, but there's no guarantee they won't hurt him if they're frightened. There might not be any warning. Freeze, Run, or Fight. Same for humans as for dogs. But the experienced people here are telling you that the kind of behaviour your dog is showing around other people can escalate to something really nasty. It's up to you to set safer boundaries.

well he follows them around and accepts the food they give him.

I get the impression you'd rather he didn't do this. So get him to do something else. If you're in the kitchen, have a mat nearby that he can stay on while you have guests and you're in the kitchen. Will probably make him feel better too, that you don't want or need him watching the (nasty) guests for you.

My OH can control the dog to an extent

This can be fixed by generalisnig your training. Ie you teach the dog a bunch of stuff with you, you need to repeat the training with anyone else the dog is expected to obey - in the same kind of way, starting with the low distraction environment building up to high distraction over multiple training sessions. It should go faster with each new person but will need to be done with each new person. My dog is completely deaf to anything my mum commands, it's up to me to train my mum to train the dog. Which is not easy.

I like my dog being confident too, but I tell him off for this behaviour.

I dunno that scolding the dog or correcting it will be as effective as giving him something else to do and rewarding that - like staying on a mat near you. It's hard for dogs to understand what you're scolding them for, especially if it's after the scold worthy event. It's possible that your dog will connect the scolding with your unpleasant guests and blame them for it and take out his frustration on them.

there is no problem if the people don't make silly noises and back away from the dog continually - I think he half thinks they want to play

I have the most insane neighbour who makes squeally noises at my dog and waves her arms and calls my dog's name with great enthusiasm - as she's leaving. My dog goes nuts. And slowly slowly I'm teaching my dog to be calm around her. At the moment instead of jumping all over my neighbour, its sneaky licking and then rolling over for belly rubs, which is an improvement but we still have a ways to go before she does a nice calm sit for the duration of squealing and hand flapping. Have the same problem with some little children. It's a high level distraction and training challenge but not an excuse for bad behaviour from my dog.

So what I'm aiming for is my dog only says hello when she's calm and well behaved and the person she wants to say hello to is willing. And she only eats or begs with permission, this one is hard because so many people like giving dogs treats, but at family bbqs I'm terrified she's going to get food that is bad for a dog, so I make sure she doesn't get the opportunity.

[OSoSwift]

I have had Dobes before and quite dominant ones.

I have never had one roll over for being growled at??? and when they did get told off I meant it!!! I am thinking he may be playing you a little as well.

There are many behaviours he is displaying that are not acceptable.

He should not put his head on the lap or near someone who is eating, he should not lean on or "annoy" people that don't like him or want him close. He of course should never pee on anyone - ever!

As already said DO NOT allow him to chew on his feet, it can end up as self mutilation and can end up a real mess.

You say you have good control of your dog but I am sorry I beg to differ.

I would remove your dog when you have people around for BBQ's (or whatever it is you are having)then he does not have the opportunity to pee on anyone or annoy them. He loses the right to mingle if he cannot control himself. I would also recommend a trainer to give you another perspective on your and your dogs relationship.

Edited October 5, 2011 by OSoSwift

[Christina]

Never thought I would say this but here goes

Its a dog & you are putting your feelings, emotions & anxieties on it to explain & excuse its behaviour.

Start seeing & treating it like a dog, it is not a person & thinking like you are.

Not suggesting making it sleep in a kennel & not letting it sit on the lounge with you etc, my own dogs are very spoiled, but they know they are the dogs & I know that too.

Re arrange your perception if you can or your dog will become & big problem but not sure if you will recognise this

[jacqui835]

I'm not arguing with everyone just this is like medical diagnosis - there's little point in me accepting everything when they haven't met or even seen the dog.

Besides, I agreed with what was said anyway. I have trained my dog to be naughty with people I don't like and people have gone so far as to reward him for peeing on the meanies. I guess I was just curious as to how he learned to tell a mean person from a nice one - but you guys explained that he's reading me like a book.

I like the idea of having a mat for him in the kitchen. And I'm confident that if I keep him away from these mean people there won't be any further issues.

I'm not sure that it's a huge problem that he doesn't listen to everyone like he does to me - he's been in training clubs his whole life in Sydney and Adelaide and everyone always just he's a mummy's boy and 1 person dog. Dobermans are allowed to be aloof with strangers, as long as he's not aggressive it's ok I think.

Dan does train him but he's not interested. He won't work for food and if he hasnt seen me in a while he will just go looking for me.

[Mervin]

I know that the problem is me - I wondered if like it was a common thing for dogs to pee on people their owners hated - I have seen dogs pee on random people at the park but this is different - this is only people that have wanted to negatively impact on my life - they have both been alcholics, one is trying to avoid child support and his children - they're just not nice people. I am a passionate person if you like, I think that people I haven't met yet are potential friends and my dog has the same attitude. But if you hurt me or my family or someone I care about, I don't forget it and I certainly can't forgive it. So no, I don't really care that my dog has peed on these people and that is the problem. He peed on people maybe 3 times in his whole life. He has peed on the belongings of one of them many many times and it was wrong but obviously I can't hide how I feel about someone from my dog. I will make sure he is not with me when I have to deal with these people.

First up, you need to see a psychologist. To be blunt, you need more work than the dog. I'm surprised your dog is still entire, if he peed on my leg a swift boot would be my reaction. Being an alcoholic does not make you a bad person, you really should see someone, as you said you don't care that he peed on them and that is the problem.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Mervin