persephone Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 he's a mummy's boy and 1 person dog. and while that can be a terrific thing - and makes us feel terrific it can be detrimental to the dog when , one day, we are ill, or have to go away , and dog does not have us there...... It makes us feel good when our dog only listens to us- only has eyes for us ... but it can be very hard on the dog concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I'm not arguing with everyone just this is like medical diagnosis - there's little point in me accepting everything when they haven't met or even seen the dog. Then why bother asking for opinions in the first place? your dog is obnoxious and so are you allowing him to behave in such a way as to pee on other people, lean on them, chase them around begging for food etc. I think you like being the only one the dog will listen to and are proud of that fact. If your partner is living with you and the dog, the dog should be obeying him just about as much as you. Load of codswallop to say he's a one person dog, you are using that as an excuse to keep the power of controlling a barely under controlled dog. The dog sounds incredibily stressed to the max and a time bomb just waiting to go off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 It wasn't done on purpose and certainly doesn't make me feel terrific. When you really love someone or something well you derive more pleasure from seeing them happy than you do from how much they love you. All of his family are the same, the breeder warned me that they had struggled to rehome her dogs in the past. Anyway thank you to everyone who responded but now this seems to have become about me rather than the dog - and of course I create the dog so it's an understandable transition but I'm not comfortable talking about my personal life with people on the Internet. I don't think my dog is potentially dangerous, he's been described as bomb proof by all his vets and trainers and I certainly don't think he's nervous. He likes to play and needs to know what's acceptable and what's not - he pees on those few people I think because I don't accept them in the house. And it will have to be a group therapy session - everyone thought the guy deserved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 there's little point in me accepting everything when they haven't met or even seen the dog. So ? consult someone who CAN see what's happening, and do things properly . Sometimes when we are too close, we can not see all the problems/possibilities. A fresh pair of eyes and and much experience can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 everyone thought the guy deserved it. And he probably did however it is not an acceptable behaviour by dogs living closely with humans. ..same as it is not kindly looked upon if we punch all those who we think deserve it . ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 :banghead: :banghead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Very true and I try very hard not to think bad thoughts about this person but he hates both my mum's children and his own and when he says something it hurts and obviously Sammy picks up on this. He moved into our home and then kicked us out, but whether he deserves it or not doesn't make it acceptable and because He has the power to hurt me I will just keep Sammy away. Sammy doesn't chase people by the way, it's just they are talking to him whilst holding food in a happy voice so he follows. I will keep him with me from now on. We entertain a lot so we often have guests over so it's something I need to get on top of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervin Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Very true and I try very hard not to think bad thoughts about this person but he hates both my mum's children and his own and when he says something it hurts and obviously Sammy picks up on this. He moved into our home and then kicked us out, but whether he deserves it or not doesn't make it acceptable and because He has the power to hurt me I will just keep Sammy away. Sammy doesn't chase people by the way, it's just they are talking to him whilst holding food in a happy voice so he follows. I will keep him with me from now on. We entertain a lot so we often have guests over so it's something I need to get on top of. Well duhh, when your entertaining stop inviting people you don't like, why do you invite people that nobody likes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It wasn't done on purpose and certainly doesn't make me feel terrific. When you really love someone or something well you derive more pleasure from seeing them happy than you do from how much they love you. All of his family are the same, the breeder warned me that they had struggled to rehome her dogs in the past. Anyway thank you to everyone who responded but now this seems to have become about me rather than the dog - and of course I create the dog so it's an understandable transition but I'm not comfortable talking about my personal life with people on the Internet. I don't think my dog is potentially dangerous, he's been described as bomb proof by all his vets and trainers and I certainly don't think he's nervous. He likes to play and needs to know what's acceptable and what's not - he pees on those few people I think because I don't accept them in the house. And it will have to be a group therapy session - everyone thought the guy deserved it. It is about you more than the dog. You train the dog, you control (or fail to control) the dog's environment. Is this thread so you can brag you trained your dog to piss on people you hate? You have told us quite enough about your personal life that we can see it is probably contributing to the behaviours you describe, many of which show an unhealthy level of anxiety. It's your choice as to whether to take the advice and get help, it's your dog at risk. If the dog's behaviour escalates, it will become a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Very true and I try very hard not to think bad thoughts about this person but he hates both my mum's children and his own and when he says something it hurts and obviously Sammy picks up on this. He moved into our home and then kicked us out, but whether he deserves it or not doesn't make it acceptable and because He has the power to hurt me I will just keep Sammy away. Sammy doesn't chase people by the way, it's just they are talking to him whilst holding food in a happy voice so he follows. I will keep him with me from now on. We entertain a lot so we often have guests over so it's something I need to get on top of. Well duhh, when your entertaining stop inviting people you don't like, why do you invite people that nobody likes? The not so nice person is a member of club/association that we are - the invitation is extended to the group and unfortunately this one guy is one who always accepts (strangely enough he's always free). He has been very cruel to my partner (and several other people) and the worst part is he doesn't even get it. In the case of the other one, well I now live in a different state so not so much of an issue. The others are just people who are scared of all dogs (and in one case, animals and insects in general), and won't listen to our advice about just standing still and not talking in a silly voice to the dog. I would like to do more training with Sammy so he somehow learns not to follow people - they're scared but they say his name (or call him doggy) and hold food in front of him and talk in a little kiddy voice - normally that's a good sign for him. If you meet him, you would see that he's the sort of dog that if you say, go away, he does. This is a dog who knows the meaning of no - and that's a command he'll obey from anyone (he just doesn't always come to everyone). He will not be left alone with these people anymore - he tends to want to seek them out because they always feed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 So you not only allow your dog to piss on people you allow him to bother people who are scared of dogs. Great, really responsible dog ownership that us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 When you are scared of a dog it is hard to follow advice. Often people who are scared of dogs display behaviour that looks like aggression to dogs (tense up, stare at the dog, fists clenched etc). When someone is scared of dogs and comes to visit I put the dogs away. That way, everyone is calm and safe. I know that would scandalise some DOLers (putting the dogs out to accomodate a human, how dare she!) but they're dogs and it is good for them to learn that not everything is about them. I wouldn't be inviting the nasty person to my house regardless of what club he belonged to. If there was no way to avoid inviting him I wouldn't have the club members at my house (I'd arrange to meet them at a pub/coffee shop etc). Personally, I'd see a behaviourist to help determine what your dog is really thinking, and come up with appropriate behaviours (I know you say your dog isn't scared, but this might be his calming signal/way of dealing with being uncomfortable). I used to think that behaviourists were for viscious dogs and that consulting one was an admission of defeat. Not any more. I now know that having someone objective look at my dogs and my relationship with them is a great value add. I wish I had seen Erny sooner! You love your dog. It is hard to admit that things might not be as good as they can/should be. I get that, but I'd see a behaviourist anyway. Who knows, you just might laern something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 :banghead: :banghead: Yup . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Very true and I try very hard not to think bad thoughts about this person but he hates both my mum's children and his own and when he says something it hurts and obviously Sammy picks up on this. Maybe I don't appreciate what it's like to have a dog very sensitive to me because I don't have one, but I do have a dog that is really sensitive to signals. Erik knows if another dog is even thinking about doing something exciting. He is unbelievably tuned in. If we want to change his behavioural response to a signal, we train an alternative behaviour. For example, he sees someone out running and he barks at them, so we have been training him that when he sees someone out running, he should look, but not bark and he will be rewarded. I don't see why how you feel should be the thing that determines how he behaves. Generally, the consequence drives behaviour, not the signal that prompts it. Don't feel like you can't do anything because your feelings are determining his behaviour. That's not necessarily the case and besides which, you actually can change how he responds to your signals. Obviously rousing on him isn't a consequence he particularly cares about in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) :banghead: :banghead: Yup . . . X 2 Jacqui why don't you put your dog outside or in a crate when these people visit??? It's very rude to be allowing your dog to do this to people, whether you think they are bad people or not. This of course is only a temporary solution, & I agree that you need advice from a dog behaviourist, & maybe from reading your posts you need to see someone yourself. It is appears from your posts that you are humanising your dog, which is not going to do him any favours in the long run. Edited October 6, 2011 by Baileys mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 He will not be left alone with these people anymore - he tends to want to seek them out because they always feed him. The peeing on other people you don't like etc can't really comment on The paw licking to me is a sign of anxiety especially if it startd at a time when you started feeling anxious (a displacement behaviour rather than copy cat) and again as others have said it can become obssessive if the reason for the behaviour can't be sorted, and as others have said a behaviourist probably would be a good idea. When my Dobe came to me he was a flank licker and I just made his life more structured, he had had 6 homes in 11 months, so it was pretty easy to fix. Teaching him to lie on a mat and periodically rewarding him for doing so or be in a crate when these people are present ( as others have mentioned counterconditioning, giving the dog an alternative behaviour and making that alternative behaviour more rewarding than what he would normally do)I think is a good start. Just thoughts. My partner says I'm our pack leader - the dog is still at the bottom, below us, below the cat, but my partner who is a lawyer says Sammy likes to try for appeals to the higher courts... I liked this, very possible if he is a real opportunist and has had success previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 If I have people over who are scared of/not comfortable around dogs I put the dogs away, simple really It is not fair to subject them to dogs if they are scared of them. Certainly if your dog tends to act intimidating, and also he is a breed that would make some uncomfortable. I also put them away when we have tradies over, simply because tradies often do not like dogs/are scared of dogs, the dogs would get in the way as they like to say hi to people, and tradies are notorious for leaving gates open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Very true and I try very hard not to think bad thoughts about this person but he hates both my mum's children and his own and when he says something it hurts and obviously Sammy picks up on this. Maybe I don't appreciate what it's like to have a dog very sensitive to me because I don't have one, but I do have a dog that is really sensitive to signals. Erik knows if another dog is even thinking about doing something exciting. He is unbelievably tuned in. If we want to change his behavioural response to a signal, we train an alternative behaviour. For example, he sees someone out running and he barks at them, so we have been training him that when he sees someone out running, he should look, but not bark and he will be rewarded. I don't see why how you feel should be the thing that determines how he behaves. Generally, the consequence drives behaviour, not the signal that prompts it. Don't feel like you can't do anything because your feelings are determining his behaviour. That's not necessarily the case and besides which, you actually can change how he responds to your signals. Obviously rousing on him isn't a consequence he particularly cares about in this instance. I'm sure it's the consequence. Sammy is opportunistic and will try things on for size - because he is confident and intelligent. When he does something bad and gets told off properly, he doesn't reoffend. However, if I don't mean it, he seems to be able to tell and of course if I don't catch him in the act well it's very hard to tell him off properly. Maybe it makes me a messed up, bad person that I am not as concerned by my dog peeing on mean people and their belongings - it's not like they treated mine with any respect, but of course I don't find it acceptable (same as I wouldn't let anyone punch the guy - and there's a few who want to) and I will be doing my best to prevent those situations from arising - as obviously my dog is stressed out by their presence as well and feels the need to try and reclaim his territory or something. Probably because I'm his leader, and I'm normally very confident and protect him from dangerous situations (have sent aggressive dogs packing etc) so he gets worried when he thinks I suddenly can't handle the situation. In regards to the people he follows - they think the problem is that Sammy likes them too much, and that in fact that they are very attractive to dogs because in one case, the guy reckons dogs always want to hump him (fortunately Sammy has never tried to hump anyone). I will give up trying to educate them - I don't want my dog to be uncomfortable or confused, and I will instead just supervise their interactions. I will tell them to stop feeding him though - I'm tell them he's on a special diet or something. Sammy is a very sensitive dog - one word from me is enough to get his ears and tail down and even if they're calling him and holding the food I can easily get him to return to me if I make sure I'm always supervising. Sammy is a dog, I know he's a dog and I certainly don't treat him like a person. That said, he is a smart dog, he is a fast learner and he is sensitive so (unfortunately and fortunately depending on the situation) I don't have to be deliberately trying to teach him something for him to learn new behaviours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm sure it's the consequence. Sammy is opportunistic and will try things on for size - because he is confident and intelligent. When he does something bad and gets told off properly, he doesn't reoffend. However, if I don't mean it, he seems to be able to tell and of course if I don't catch him in the act well it's very hard to tell him off properly. Then use a different consequence. Train him to do something else instead and reward when he does it. That and counter-conditioning are the basis of the majority of behaviour modification. Don't dwell on your helplessness. You are not helpless. You can provide a consequence in this situation that does not depend on your emotional commitment to the wellbeing of people you don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flycow Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sorry OT *applause* for doler's patience, I lost mine halfway reading. I think a dog is a animal no matter how one humanised it. OP it really doesn't matter how much you dislike the persons your dobe peed on, peeing on ANYBODY is a no no. Even if you think doggie is doing all a favour, even if YOU assumed he thinks he's doing the right thing, he must be corrected. It's called house rules. A dog gets anxious and confused with flexible rules where he can pee on some guests and not others. You need to seek advise from a behaviourist. Why skip around this suggestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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