OSoSwift Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) would depend on who was teaching it. Also how basic it is. Yes I think many people have no idea of even the most basic of things that a dog is trying to say. Edited November 7, 2011 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niques Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Could you teach my dog to read other dogs' body language? Otherwise, no, I wouldn't be interested in a practical sense. James doesn't interact with other dogs all that often and when he does, I tend to err very much on the side of caution because he's an enormous buffoon and considers it well beyond the realms of possibility that another creature might not like him. Even when they're snapping in his face. In a theoretical sense, sure, it would be interesting. Not interesting enough to draw me to it unless it was very easily available, but interesting nonetheless. I support the notion of instilling a basic understanding that each dog reacts and behaves differently into puppy preschool classes, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 YES! That is exactly what I'm after. A new dog owner with a 14 week old puppy. I'm desperate to do things right, and finding it hard to find out all the info. Just haven't been around dogs that much before so what may appear obvious to a long-time dog lover is a whole new language for me. Great idea, let me know if anyone sets one up... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 If Steve (K9 pro) was teaching it it would be a good thing, if you, not so much because you lack the necessary experience Yup if Steve was teaching it I would love to take my dogs along because he's brilliant with animal psychology. Sounds like you should ask him, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There is more than one competent trainer in Australia . I don't think the course that Corvus is talking about requires an expert. After all, people need skills in reading general dog behavior - the expert won't be going with them to the park every day. Corvus - I think you asked the wrong question - people on DOL are often interested in seminars etc with a focus on a specialty, which isn't what normal people are after. I have been to many clubs and private training sessions and I don't recall ever hearing about dog park interactions etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Whilst puppy classes may sometimes cover this sort of information, the standard of puppy classes may vary widely depending on who is running it and their own knowledge of dog behaviour. What about those owners who adopt an older dog, they don't go to puppy classes? Wher do they get their information from, the other owners at the dog park? It may also be a valuable learning tool for future foster carers, especially if they run multiple dogs together and there is a constant turnover of dogs in care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There is more than one competent trainer in Australia . I don't think the course that Corvus is talking about requires an expert. After all, people need skills in reading general dog behavior - the expert won't be going with them to the park every day. Corvus - I think you asked the wrong question - people on DOL are often interested in seminars etc with a focus on a specialty, which isn't what normal people are after. I have been to many clubs and private training sessions and I don't recall ever hearing about dog park interactions etc I agree with this. Working with 'Joe Blow' every day It is scary how little they know about their own dogs!! Apparently trying to eat the groomer is completely normal, freaking out at the sight of another dog (also normal) that a wagging tail is ALWAYS happy etc. The people that frequent this forum.... Well defiantly not Joe Blow!! Joe Blow don't care who Steve is because he doesn't market to them, they don't care that the person has even read anything about behaviour. I know I would much prefer Corvus than most of the instructors at BOTH the obedience clubs I attend who still say that tugging automatically causes aggression and that to solve a reactivity problem you just avoid other dogs!! Joe Blow currently ARE the teachers of the dogs out there so is it any wonder that dogs are so poorly socialised and understood. Anyone who has read any current literature or goes to seminars is who needs to be teaching people how to read their own dogs body language so they can keep their dog safe! I think this would be an amazing idea but it would take a while to reach the people that really need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) The people that frequent this forum.... Well defiantly not Joe Blow!! Well... I'll defend myself here. I think there are people on this forum that are essentially average dog owners, or at least the sort of average that is slightly more interested than average, which is why I asked this in general and not in the training forum. People new to dogs and people with a rescue dog or a dog that isn't as easy as other dogs have been and so on. Thanks for the support, though. ;) I'm just kicking ideas around at the moment. There's this PhD that seems to sap most of my creative energy... ETA Grisha Stewart is doing something like this in the US. I watched her organic socialisation dvd a while back and was really impressed. She is very good at distilling body language down to the most simple and useful bits. Edited November 7, 2011 by corvus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The people that frequent this forum.... Well defiantly not Joe Blow!! Well... I'll defend myself here. I think there are people on this forum that are essentially average dog owners, or at least the sort of average that is slightly more interested than average, which is why I asked this in general and not in the training forum. People new to dogs and people with a rescue dog or a dog that isn't as easy as other dogs have been and so on. Thanks for the support, though. ;) I'm just kicking ideas around at the moment. There's this PhD that seems to sap most of my creative energy... ETA Grisha Stewart is doing something like this in the US. I watched her organic socialisation dvd a while back and was really impressed. She is very good at distilling body language down to the most simple and useful bits. The average australian dog owner is not interested in their dog enough to jump on a forum. I wasn't really talking to you in regards to Joe Blow, more the people who came on and talked about the international people who they WOULD go and see talk about this. Over half of DOL and most of the general population wouldn't know these people and so I didn't see that it was necessary to stick the boot in so to speak because I interact with people who should know better and know how little they know as well as your dog owner who doesn't realise their dog is so matted it can't walk. Most trainers see people who want to fix their dog or are proactive about it, people who research dogs once again see people who are interested in dogs. I tend to cop the people who tell me their dog has never been outside the backyard.... Once again I like the idea- I think people THINK they already know this, but they don't. It is just one of the many areas that I think people need to be educated on for Australian Culture to change towards animals. I think vets should spend more than one semester doing a tiny little subject on behaviour. They are most people first point of call with their pup so unless you educate them appropriately then your never going to get more detailed information to pet owners. I can make a suggestion and people will say they call their vet, and I hear back that their vet didn't think it was a good idea- simply because a vet is not a behaviourist. But how many vets think they are??? /rant I am probably just disheartened after my last few jobs that have not been the most amazing ones. The type where vets don't know there are specialists in different fields, and with groomers that can't even identify different breeds. But money is money atm and I figure if I manage to educate a few of their clients then I can hold my head up. I might be being harsh but that is my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 In a lot of your posts you describe your dogs being disobedient and in others out of your control so I would not suggest you attempt to teach others until you have grasped the basics yourself. Tricks and obedience are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 In a lot of your posts you describe your dogs being disobedient and in others out of your control so I would not suggest you attempt to teach others until you have grasped the basics yourself. Tricks and obedience are two different things. Thank dog, someone finally said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Could you teach my dog to read other dogs' body language? Otherwise, no, I wouldn't be interested in a practical sense. James doesn't interact with other dogs all that often and when he does, I tend to err very much on the side of caution because he's an enormous buffoon and considers it well beyond the realms of possibility that another creature might not like him. Even when they're snapping in his face. In a theoretical sense, sure, it would be interesting. Not interesting enough to draw me to it unless it was very easily available, but interesting nonetheless. I support the notion of instilling a basic understanding that each dog reacts and behaves differently into puppy preschool classes, though. but you could learn more about James' body labguaage. Body language isn't only relevant when its between two dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Oh, I don't think it would be 100% dog behaviour stuff. Probably aimed at average dog owners doing puppy or basic manners classes, but with an emphasis on introducing the notion that dogs don't love everything we do to them but they will tell us when they don't love it and it's nice to listen to them. I dunno, I think that maybe if you give people some basic info and some rules of thumb to guide them out there in the world, perhaps they can muddle through better than if they'd been given no basic info or rules of thumb. Things like "is the tail loose or stiff?" and "if in doubt, move farther away" is stuff that's pretty easy to remember and get into the habit of doing and quite useful. What do you think? I wish that people could grasp that dogs don't think like people do, but that might be asking a bit much. Good Trainers already teach this in puppy school and basic/intermediate obedience. People won't do two types of puppy classes, and most want a puppy 'playgroup' more than anything else, you have to let them down gently that 1 hour of free-for-all is counter productive, so I'm not sure how much take-up you'd get. Particularly if you're in an area where there's established puppy schools and clubs with good reputations pre-existing. Kerrie Haynes-Lovell - sure, but she has spent many many years working with other animals as well as dogs. People who work in shelter environments as behaviourists/assessors are also good as they get a rich education in a short period of time- if they can read all the communication correctly. ;) I agree with this. Many puppy schools already teach the basics of body language. I think anything more than this can't really be taught in a theoretical approach. It would have to involve watching DVDs etc, and interactions with lots of different types of dogs, which a lot of courses and careers involving animals already offer (ie hands on experience). Not really something your "average" owner would be interested in imo. Many people struggle to make it to puppy school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 \ The average australian dog owner is not interested in their dog enough to jump on a forum. I wasn't really talking to you in regards to Joe Blow, more the people who came on and talked about the international people who they WOULD go and see talk about this. Over half of DOL and most of the general population wouldn't know these people and so I didn't see that it was necessary to stick the boot in so to speak because I interact with people who should know better and know how little they know as well as your dog owner who doesn't realise their dog is so matted it can't walk. Most trainers see people who want to fix their dog or are proactive about it, people who research dogs once again see people who are interested in dogs. I tend to cop the people who tell me their dog has never been outside the backyard.... Yes, you are quite right. Even the people I meet at the dog park outside of research interests are probably more interested than many people that own dogs. If they are out there walking their dog off leash every day they are more committed than the people with dogs I never see because they are always in the yard. Once again I like the idea- I think people THINK they already know this, but they don't. It is just one of the many areas that I think people need to be educated on for Australian Culture to change towards animals. I think vets should spend more than one semester doing a tiny little subject on behaviour. They are most people first point of call with their pup so unless you educate them appropriately then your never going to get more detailed information to pet owners. I can make a suggestion and people will say they call their vet, and I hear back that their vet didn't think it was a good idea- simply because a vet is not a behaviourist. But how many vets think they are??? /rant Haha, sounds like a story I have heard several times in the last couple of years. I'm on my second vet honours student and have just about stopped being surprised about what they do and don't get taught. :p I am probably just disheartened after my last few jobs that have not been the most amazing ones. The type where vets don't know there are specialists in different fields, and with groomers that can't even identify different breeds. But money is money atm and I figure if I manage to educate a few of their clients then I can hold my head up. I might be being harsh but that is my experience. Sometimes it seems like an impossible task. But, there are a lot of people like you just quietly plugging away. I think they are making a difference. Just in small increments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 \ The average australian dog owner is not interested in their dog enough to jump on a forum. I wasn't really talking to you in regards to Joe Blow, more the people who came on and talked about the international people who they WOULD go and see talk about this. Over half of DOL and most of the general population wouldn't know these people and so I didn't see that it was necessary to stick the boot in so to speak because I interact with people who should know better and know how little they know as well as your dog owner who doesn't realise their dog is so matted it can't walk. Most trainers see people who want to fix their dog or are proactive about it, people who research dogs once again see people who are interested in dogs. I tend to cop the people who tell me their dog has never been outside the backyard.... Yes, you are quite right. Even the people I meet at the dog park outside of research interests are probably more interested than many people that own dogs. If they are out there walking their dog off leash every day they are more committed than the people with dogs I never see because they are always in the yard. Once again I like the idea- I think people THINK they already know this, but they don't. It is just one of the many areas that I think people need to be educated on for Australian Culture to change towards animals. I think vets should spend more than one semester doing a tiny little subject on behaviour. They are most people first point of call with their pup so unless you educate them appropriately then your never going to get more detailed information to pet owners. I can make a suggestion and people will say they call their vet, and I hear back that their vet didn't think it was a good idea- simply because a vet is not a behaviourist. But how many vets think they are??? /rant Haha, sounds like a story I have heard several times in the last couple of years. I'm on my second vet honours student and have just about stopped being surprised about what they do and don't get taught. :p I am probably just disheartened after my last few jobs that have not been the most amazing ones. The type where vets don't know there are specialists in different fields, and with groomers that can't even identify different breeds. But money is money atm and I figure if I manage to educate a few of their clients then I can hold my head up. I might be being harsh but that is my experience. Sometimes it seems like an impossible task. But, there are a lot of people like you just quietly plugging away. I think they are making a difference. Just in small increments. Thanks Corvus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I think it's a good idea and depending in the content I would definitely consider attending something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Body language - human or dog - is interesting. If I walk away from a "class" having one more piece of information it is worthwhile IMO. Just the discussion here on this forum has possibly made somebody think a bit extra about their dog's communication modes, have off line conversations/discussions about it and do some more research, maybe even get a book by any of the "specialist" people mentioned in this thread. Those who have no interst or already know it all or is of the opinion that the facilitator lack experience on the topic will not attend any "class". In a class on reading dog body language it will obviously be challenging to pitch it at a level 100% suitable for all participants however the people attending are there of their own free will with a positive mindset, a willingness to listen, consider other's experiences and a great interest in dogs. Jumabaar and corvus About quietly plugging away - How do you eat an elephant? One bite at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMolly Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Exactly. And wagging tail means a happy dog, humping means horny, tongue out is smiling.. etc. I know someone who was biten by a dog who was wagging his tail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Exactly. And wagging tail means a happy dog, humping means horny, tongue out is smiling.. etc. I know someone who was biten by a dog who was wagging his tail... and humping can mean dominating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dxenion Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If Turid Rugaas was giving it, I would Ditto. If someone could get Turid here, I find a way to travel interstate to see her! She'd be worth the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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