Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Fingers crossed the outcome is more than just another fine for him and means the dog needs to be muzzled in public

Hopefully the owner is more careful about what he does with his dog - so that he doesn't end up with a disaster and the dog being PTS.

We had an interesting episode at the park the other night. Another poodle x - was out on the oval with its family kicking the footy... my friend grabbed her small black dog and put it on lead because otherwise this oodlex chases her dog out of the park all the way home across a road.

And sure enough two seconds later it charged up and got in our faces. Frosty had a good yelling at it despite me trying to stay between them. And then the owner came walking up saying sarcastically "I suppose I'd better come and get my *aggressive* dog then" - I said to him "your dog is just RUDE - charging up to other dogs is RUDE" - he said "no it's not" - erm. I didn't mention it's also Illegal to let his dog harass other dogs. But he had no idea about dog etiquette - or even human etiquette...

[raineth]

Keep us posted Snook.

Hankdog, Jake is such a character. How sweet he was missing his trainer :)

[raineth]

I've been having a bit of a mixed bag with Del's reactivity lately. Sometimes she's doing way better and sometimes worse. She must be working through something in her head. God I hope the improvement wins over the regression!

This is 100% reactive related, but I need to share this.

I was doing LAT training with Del near the front yard of a house with a cranky Beagle.

I can see a couple of people walking down the street and so I turn so we are facing toward the road and away from them (I don't want to be disturbed).

This doesn't work however, and one of them begins engaging me in conversation. I'm answering questions briefly in a way that I imagine is conveying that I am a bit busy and not really wanting a conversation.

Meanwhile the other lady has begun taking photos of us.

Then the older lady sort of lunges forward unexpectedly from behind and begins kind of donking Del on the head in an affectionate but kind of rough manner. Del doesn't seem to care one whit and is smiling at me, but I'm starting to get a bit annoyed. And we are still having our photo taken...

Then the lady begins pulling on Del's collar - a leather martingale that she wears high behind her ears - and tells me it's too tight. Yes it is too tight because you're pulling towards the base of her neck which is much bigger than the top! I am trying to explain and moving the collar back into position and keeping up with the LAT.

The other lady has stopped taking photos.

Then the older lady pulls on Del's other collar (just one I have loose on her to practice collar grabs with) and tells me it infact is too tight as well (it is seriously, seriously not has about 3 inches of slack).

Then she points to another house and says very disapprovingly "they had a collar on their dog the other day too" tsk tsk.

Well clearly the good part is Del was totally fine with it the whole time!

But ye gods some people are bizarre!

[dididog]

Well clearly the good part is Del was totally fine with it the whole time!

But ye gods some people are bizarre!

Holy crap I can assure you that lady would've been met with a lot of growls and barking (from both me and Didi) if she'd tried that to us. So rude to take your photo without asking and to then try and interfere with your dog's collars on top of touching your dog without asking. People and their self imposed right to touch your dog is the reason why if someone so much as smiles at Didi I move far, far away, they've already created enough damage. Good thing Del is opinionated-idiot proof :D

I haven't been doing many on lead walks since Judi came which is annoying but I got the chance to do one today, I'm really having to work on remembering to be overly cautious because Didi is only okay with a situation until she isn't and in the early stages I can't let it go that far. Passed a fair few people today, most of which Didi happily ignored with me walking in between her and the strangers and keeping our distance. Handful of occasions where I could see her on the brink of ticking over threshold but managed to overt the situation. While we had one of her worse enemies approach us (elderly person with one of those market trolley things) and Didi was only a little worried, the sight of a man 100m away on the path made her tense up completely and focus intensely so who knows what goes on in that big head of hers. It's amazing how a change in outlook and demeanor by me helps though.

One worrying thing that I encountered on our walk, our neighbours have what looks like a maltese/shih tzu who is fairly old and mainly just curls up in a ball on their porch bench. He's a pretty snappy bugger and always rushes at the fence and carries on if he sees Didi on walks. Up until now they had a solid picket fence so he mostly didn't see other dogs walking past or at least was completely separated from them but they redid their fence last week and the sheeting is like a powder coated metal grid, with the holes of the grid big enough for him to stick his head out of. I didn't know he was outside until I walked past with Didi up against the fence and he just came out of nowhere and popped his head through one of the holes barking and snapping at Didi's face. Didi obviously reacted back and I really had to drag her away. Didi was not trying to bite back more just upper lip curled back and snarling but we live in a high traffic area for dogs and I'm scared this little guy is going to get his face ripped off if he surprises the wrong dog. Don't really know how to go about telling the neighbours though? They're nice enough and we say hi and chat every now and then but I feel like they're the type who will take offence to being told their dog is a bit of an asshole and that their lovely new fence was probably a bad idea??

[hankdog]

Yea that coukd be a problem,even a non reactive dog might go for him out of sheer surprise. It's always hard to approach people and seem critical. I was told it's always better if you can make it seem your fault, maybe mention how startled Didi got and wouldn't it be awful if his little face got ripped off. They may have not thought of it since they will never actually see him do it.

Raineth I wouldn't have been happy having my photo taken, how presumptuous of them. The big dogs do seem to invite a head thunking from strangers. I guess they catch people's attention and they're easy to reach. It's rude though.

[dididog]

Yea that coukd be a problem,even a non reactive dog might go for him out of sheer surprise. It's always hard to approach people and seem critical. I was told it's always better if you can make it seem your fault, maybe mention how startled Didi got and wouldn't it be awful if his little face got ripped off. They may have not thought of it since they will never actually see him do it.

Raineth I wouldn't have been happy having my photo taken, how presumptuous of them. The big dogs do seem to invite a head thunking from strangers. I guess they catch people's attention and they're easy to reach. It's rude though.

Yeah I might just make a passing comment about how I noticed he could stick his head out and he gave Didi a bit of a shock and I'm a bit worried another dog might not react so nicely. Might say something about if I kept Didi in the front yard and she could get her through the fence she'd probably do same thing (which she probably would) so it feels like less of a personal attack on their dog. It confuses me though because there used to be a hole in their fence he could stick his head through so they blocked it off but they then turned their whole fence line into a bunch of holes???

The worst walk by head thunking Didi has ever received was from a toddler passing us in one of those prams that are really elevated and sprung out with an outstretched hand determined on showing Didi some love. Another thing big dogs seem to attract is a weird form of catcalling (dogcalling???) Where I live is really busy with tradies at the moment as half of it is being redeveloped and the Showgrounds are setting up for the Melbourne Show and so many just honk and shout things like NICE DOG, or NOW THAT'S A DOG!!! (well I hope they're referring to Didi and not me....)

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Thank you so much for starting this thread Megan. Some really fantastic tips in here, thank you so much!

[hankdog]

Mmm think I might get that dvd. I realise that I've been trained to give out treats for being quiet after a brief stint of barking. He's been a little obvious about it now that I've had time to be in the veggie patch and away from my machines. He'll wait for anything to come down the road then give a few test barks and then look meaningfully at me. So now he's only getting treats for no barking but that's kind of tricky because if he never "not barks" then he just gets cranky and winds up getting genuinely hysterical.

We went to the pens today and I had as a goal to walk one complete side no barking. Everytime he erupted I just turned and walked back to the start. He's very expressive when he's trying to work out stuff. He would bark, look at me, at the treat bag, nudge, bark etc. it's a different bark from his frantic "real" bark. Such a smart dog!

We eventually did it but then a dog walker turned up with a hoard of littlies so we bolted for the car.

As a bonus I did get to watch a fawn frenchie playing with a Samoyed on the main field when I was leaving.

Edited September 3, 2014 by hankdog

[Jemmy]

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome!! I'm pleased to hear that this thread has mostly had positive experiences this week...I don't know what those ladies were thinking with Raineth & Del though...That's so rude!

We've had 2 positive encounters in the last week as well - last weekend we walked past another dog without a single noise from the Woofasaurus, and she stayed alert but not alarmed while we were in that range (opposite sides of the road). This morning we were planning on hitting a nature trail, but it goes past an offleash area...there were 2 dogs in there that we had a lovely greeting with through the fence (one woof, but it seemed to be an invitation to play woof, as it was accompanied by a play bow and no signs of anxiety from her). They left the park after they'd said their hellos, so we decided to change our plan and had an offlead play, some dogs hit the nature trail while we were in there and she noticed them, but didn't run to the fence or bark, just kept zooming around with us. I was very proud of her :)

Another thing big dogs seem to attract is a weird form of catcalling (dogcalling???) Where I live is really busy with tradies at the moment as half of it is being redeveloped and the Showgrounds are setting up for the Melbourne Show and so many just honk and shout things like NICE DOG, or NOW THAT'S A DOG!!! (well I hope they're referring to Didi and not me....)

I know it must be so awkward to have this happen, but it sounds hilarious. I wonder if they stop and think what they sound like?

[hankdog]

I was walking Jake one day and got a cat call, been about 30 years since that happened. I looked in the car as they drove past, school uniforms......hahaha! When I was youngervI might have been offended, nowadays I'll take it as a compliment.

[BC Crazy]

I don't agree with that outcome one bit either Snook. Whats changed, NOTHING...

I think this dog should be muzzled & leashed when out in public. Look at what happens when he isn't

Just not good enough IMHO...

Edited September 9, 2014 by BC Crazy

[hankdog]

I thought all dogs were supposed to not escape your property and be on a leash in public. So he gets away with nothing. I guess at least there is now a second case on record and the dog is shown to be escalating. I wish there was some legal comeback on the councils when they let dogs go free. If there's a third incident then there should be a case that council can be held partially responsible. Same as in the case of Hugo, if there's an incident then those that were responsible for making the decision to allow him to be released should be accountable.

[BC Crazy]

YES YES YES Snook.

[hankdog]

Mostly because council can now tick the box that says we did something, I get a paycheck and no liability and don't have to make anyone do anything too hard. So let's wait and see if the dog attacks a small dog? Good idea. Hopefully the small dog is attached to a large person and not a child or frail person or me. If it's me I'd sue the pants off council. It's about time someone did hold them accountable. I don't know why but I'm ridiculously cranky over this.

And there are many dogs who might pass a temperament test that should be classed as dangerous because they have stupid owners!

Edited September 10, 2014 by hankdog

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I've spoken to the council and I'm still not impressed but there's nothing I can do.

Were you and Justice on a public footpath when Justice was attacked? I'm not sure the bit about "private property" applies when it's a shop or business open to the public.

It's common for council staff to have no clue what the actual rules are.

What you can do now - and I'd recommend it - is report what has happened to your local ward representative (or all councillors), start with what you want to happen and why and then go through the history. But put the action stuff at the top - keep it as short as you can or they switch off and tune out.

The councillor will forward your concerns to the CEO of the council - because all communication between councillors and council staff has to go through the CEO... and the CEO will check the details with the animal management officer. And the CEO will probably have a better handle on the legal details than the animal management officer.

It is possible to sue a council for stuffing up, and they usually settle cos that's cheaper than going to court and they all feel a bit strapped at the moment.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hmm, multiple councils...

Write a letter to your state government rep - keep it simple and ask for what you want at the top...

The dog and cat management laws are State Government laws...

(2) A person who owns or is responsible for the control of a dog is guilty of an offence if

the dog attacks, harasses or chases or otherwise endangers the health of a person or an animal or bird owned by or in the charge of another person (whether or not actual injury is caused).

Maximum penalty: $2 500.

Expiation fee: $210.

There's another fine for "dog wandering at large".

So I think it's fair to complain to your state government rep. Who can deal with the council where the attack happened - they're the ones who need to set the dangerous dog law in action.

But do explain the difficulty of the dog being outside the area that it was registered in.

This dog (owner) is a repeat offender. The next time - will it be a small child?

The fact that it was "privately owned" land is only relevant if the dog was defending its own property ie the place it lives.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[hankdog]

Well I guess you're probably better off just moving on. It would seem that all you can do is invest more time and aggravation at this point. It just seems that since it's the second offence the owner has learned how to deal better with council than his dog. I'm going to visualize the fleas of a thousand camels infesting his armpits and hope it reaches him. Karma.

[hankdog]

Why do people find treat training your dog so offensive. I get a lot of comments about giving Jake peanut butter when he's near another dog, I understand that to many people he's behaving badly and I'm rewarding him. They haven't seen where he's come from so they don't know it's actually an improvement so I just smile and nod.

This evening I was on the side of the road doing our dinner training. Just a bit of basic obedience and giving him his kibble as reward. He was in a sit stay with me about 5m away (on a long line). This man crosses the road and asks me how I will control my dog when I run out of treats. Nope I never will, I have a huge bag at home. Well he says your dog isn't "really" obedient. His dogs do what they're told all the time because their reward is not to get a wallop if they don't do it.

Yep, that's those imaginary dogs you're walking right now. I just wonder why people feel so negatively about using treats in training. Good thing was Jake didn't budge the whole time I was entertaining the opinionated windbag.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I think the dog needs to be muzzled in public

well - lets hope the owner keeps his promise. It's about as likely as if the dog was declared and he was required to muzzle it... He will either respect the decisions (problem mostly solved) or ignore them.

My brother liked to tie his SBT to his esky which was huge - but even full of beer and ice, that dog could still tow it across a football oval... umbrellas are not fixed objects - especially at the beach.

So - just when I thought my dog had reverted to her nice grovelly self...

we're walking up one of the laneways towards the park - she's a bit stir crazy cos I've been sick since Monday and the weather has been tricky or wet or both. And as we get to the main road at the end of the walk way - a kelpie and owner appear on the footpath and evil hound goes into major scold and lunge mode. She doesn't get far, but does give the walkers a bit of a fright. He keeps walking with his kelpie who pretty much ignored the entire episode.

And I ask Frosty for attention and what the hell did she think she was doing in the "oops you made a mistake" tone ie fairly upbeat but you're not getting a treat for that.

And then she's fine. WTF. Kelpie is gone. I would have liked the opportunity to practice but I don't know if it would have helped much...

later at the park - she did her best grovel for a schnauzer puppy... and she also tried to herd a very energetic "chase me" JRT - but mostly I think she just wanted me to let her off lead... there were play bows, barking and growling involved but she's fooled me before - she doesn't play when I let her off - she beelines to check the playground for food... she's learned - I ask to be let off to play and then I can go forage. Hasn't worked in a while but... sheesh that playground has good stuff. Chicken crimpies are a fave... chippies, jelly snakes...

Before that I see the curly coat retriever thing she hates - and march her away, meanwhile that dog picks a fight with a ball obsessed border collie who never ever starts fights but doesn't like being sniffed up the bum without a formal introduction... So there was a lot of piss off leave me alone barking and growling... and both dogs got told off by their respective owners.

But I know it was the curly coat's fault. So now I know that my dog is not the only one that hates it. Don't really know how to fix reactive behaviour towards a dog that clearly all the other dogs think deserves it.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[hankdog]

There's akways that one curly coated kid..... It's hard to know how to draw the line. I'm often asking Jake to walk quietly past dogs that are growling and yapping at him. Maybe the curly coated butt sniffer is being incredibly rude but how do you tell what's normal ie be rude back or reactive?