Shazzapug Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2012/02/01/437321_latest-news.html EXCLUSIVE: UNWANTED kittens and pups may be dumped or destroyed due to sweeping new animal laws. It is now illegal to advertise animals "free to good home" unless they have costly microchips implanted. TELL US WHAT YOU THINK Are the Government's new pet laws a good idea? VOTE NOW READ MORE: Dog breeders lobby for amnesty EDITORIAL: Laws a dogs breakfast CARTOON: Rule's View Have Your Say in the form below And breeders of working dogs believe they are now operating as outlaws and are liable to fines of more than $20,000. They have called for an immediate amnesty to give the Government time to exempt farm dogs from the crackdown on illegal puppy farms. Combined with mandatory de-sexing, pet owners face up to $1000 to prepare a litter for sale to abide with the Government's new version of the Domestic Animals Act. All cats and dogs must now be microchipped before they are sold or given away. All cats and dogs aged three months or over must be registered with a local municipal council. "A family is not going to bother trying to give an unwanted litter away if it is going to cost them," an animal shelter operator in central Victoria, who did not want to be identified, said. "They are going to put them in a box, dump them on a back road, and leave them to die." New legislation designed to wipe out puppy farms has caused a storm among working dog organisations, who have asked the Government for an amnesty to cover their breeders. They are building a case to separate working dogs such as Kelpies, cattle dogs and Border Collies from companion animals as other states such as NSW have done. Working dogs groups face an uphill battle as the Department of Primary Industries has already begun to police the new laws, which came into force on January 1. Kelpie breeder Bill Scott from Glenrowan said there was no consultation with working dogs groups before the laws were drafted. "For instance, under the new laws we understand all breeders have to be members of Dogs Victoria which is mainly for show dogs, and working dog people have their own groups but they are not recognised," Mr Scott said. "We are currently in a no-man's land and every day we are breaking the law." Mr Scott said it was estimated there were 25,000 working dogs in Victoria and he doubted many of them would comply with the new laws. Anyone who tries to sell or give away kittens or pups without including microchip information on the notice can be fined $610. Animal shelters, veterinarians and dog and cat groups are all solidly in support of the Government push to stamp out illegal puppy farms but many are critical about the lack of community education on the new laws. Cats Victoria chair Trish Newman said there would be some collateral damage from the new animal laws. "We want to stamp out those people who are cruelly breeding just for profit, the backyarders," Mrs Newman said. "Unfortunately, there will be some pain in the interim and perhaps the government hasn't worked hard enough to get the word out, but we have got to stop these people." Ingrid Arving, operator of a Broadford animal shelter, said pet lovers might take years to get used to the new laws. "I am sorry for the family who can't get rid of litters the way they could in the past, but they should have had their cat de-sexed," she said. A DPI spokesman said hundreds of thousands of animals were unidentifiable. Only two-thirds of dogs were registered or had microchips and only 30 per cent of cats. "Perhaps this will halt the flood of animals being taken to shelters and eventually destroyed," the spokesman said. Fo The new law the article is referring to.... http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/pets/dog-care/microchip-details-now-needed-in-catdog-sale-advertisements To allow traceability of sellers of pets, it is now an offence to advertise the sale of a dog or cat unless the microchip identification number of the animal is included in the advertisement or notice. A registered domestic animal business may use its Council business registration number as an alternative. Frequently Asked Questions Q. Is the requirement for microchipping information limited to only breeding businesses? A. No. The legislation applies to anyone in Victoria who advertises a dog or cat (or puppy or kitten) for sale. All dogs and cats that are being advertised for sale (through a business or privately) need to be permanently identified and that microchip number must appear in the advertisement. If the person is a registered business (such as a pet shop, shelter or breeder) they can place their council registered premises number (along with the name of the issuing council) in the advertisement instead. Q. What is the definition of a breeding domestic animal business? A. If you have 3 or more fertile dogs or cats and sell dogs or cats (whether you make a profit or not), you are deemed to be a domestic animal business. This means you must register with the local council and comply with the mandatory Code of Practice for the Operation of Breeding and Rearing Establishments. However if you are a member of an applicable organisation you do not need to register as a domestic animal business unless you have 10 or more fertile dogs or cats. Either way you must comply with local council laws in relation to the maximum number of animals allowed on a property. Q. What if I am a member of an applicable organisation but not a registered domestic animal business? A. You cannot use your breeder number from the applicable organisation. If you are advertising a dog or cat for sale, the advertisement must include that animal's microchip number. Q. What if I'm part of a Community Foster Care Network, or a dog or cat rescue organisation, but not registered with the Council as a domestic animal business? A. You will be required to include microchip numbers in dog/cat sale advertisements. Q. Do I have to put in the microchip number if I am advertising the animal as 'free to a good home' or giveaway? A. No. The provision does not apply to advertisements to give away a dog or cat. Q. Are there any exemptions? A. The only exemption is if a veterinarian has provided a certificate to say the animal cannot be microchipped as it would significantly prejudice the animal's health. Q. If I have purchased a dog or cat that was advertised what information do I need to get from the seller? A. The seller must provide the microchip certificate and you must arrange the change of ownership details with the microchip registry. Q. I have seen an advertisement without a microchip number - who do I report this to? A. If the advertisement is on a local notice board or the like then contact your local council. If the advertisement is in a classified publication or website you should inform that organisation of the new requirements. Q. What if the microchip number in the advertisement is not the same as the one in the animal I have purchased? A. You should first ensure that the number on the microchip certificate matches the microchip in your animal (a vet can do this for you). Once you have this information (regardless of whether the certificate and microchip match) contact the Licensing Officer in the Department of Primary Industries on 03 9217 4200. Q. What is the penalty if I advertise for sale a dog or cat without a microchip number? A. The classified publication may choose to withdraw your advertisement from their publication. You may loose potential customers who are looking for ethical and transparent people to purchase an animal from. There is a penalty of up to 5 penalty units (around $600) that can be issued by Authorised Officers of Council, RSPCA or Department of Primary Industries Q. What if I'm advertising through an Interstate newspaper, or on a National online classified site? A. If you are based in Victoria, and if the dog or cat sale advertisement will be viewed by prospective purchasers in Victoria, then the requirement to include a microchip number still applies. Q. What if I'm a breeder advertising the future availability of puppies or kittens that aren't born or for sale yet? A. As long as your advertisement relates only to the future availability of litters, and does not include reference to animals currently "for sale", the microchip requirements do not apply. However such advertisements must be kept up to date, in that as soon as these animals do become available for sale, the microchip details must also be displayed in the advertisement. Further Information Edited February 2, 2012 by Shazzapug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Is it just me or does the article read as if suddenly people will start dumping unwanted litters/animals because of the laws? They weren't doing this beforehand? I believe that if you morally think that it is ok to dump an animal, you will do it regardless. How costly is it to put a microchip in anyway? I can't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It seems the premise of this article is incorrect if what the DPI say here is correct.... Q. Do I have to put in the microchip number if I am advertising the animal as 'free to a good home' or giveaway? A. No. The provision does not apply to advertisements to give away a dog or cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Working dogs groups face an uphill battle as the Department of Primary Industries has already begun to police the new laws, which came into force on January 1. Kelpie breeder Bill Scott from Glenrowan said there was no consultation with working dogs groups before the laws were drafted. "For instance, under the new laws we understand all breeders have to be members of Dogs Victoria which is mainly for show dogs, and working dog people have their own groups but they are not recognised," Mr Scott said. And this, Bill Scott, is unconstitutional. The VCA (Dogs Victoria) is not a branch of the Victorian Government and therefore should not have a monopoly provided by legislation. The money of the taxpayers of Victoria should not have been used to provide a monopoly to any canine business entity. Constitutional lawyers across Australia should be looking very closely at this situation. Heaven help us all if other states copy Victoria's legislation. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is not required for free to good home or give aways. It is only if you are selling that a microchip is required. If you read the info in the OP it tells you this. In Q & A's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Going to be boom times for the byb's and the pet shops they supply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) It is not required for free to good home or give aways. It is only if you are selling that a microchip is required. If you read the info in the OP it tells you this. In Q & A's Oh dear, did the media get it wrong again! :rolleyes: No wonder people get confused about "pet laws". Edited February 2, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzapug Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 It seems the premise of this article is incorrect if what the DPI say here is correct.... Q. Do I have to put in the microchip number if I am advertising the animal as 'free to a good home' or giveaway? A. No. The provision does not apply to advertisements to give away a dog or cat. Thats what I first picked up on too...contradicting as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The article is wrong - free to good home means you don't need a chip number - but I know this wont be popular here because its a pro ANKC dogs site but the way its set up the working dog people are right and many other people who want to breed are under the gun too. We are getting calls and so are others Ive spoken to this week from people asking if we know anyone who will take their dogs because unless they are Vicdogs they cant have more than 3 fertile dogs - in some shires they cant have any fertile dogs at all unless they are Vic dog members. The MDBA has several members who are working on breeds in development and breeds which simply don't want to be associated with the ANKC at least one world wide working dog registry is very definite if any dog has been on the show registry that they wont accept the dog on their working registry. I spoke with a lady yesterday who has 3 dogs living with her on 70 acres and she has two in boarding kennels because she can't have any more without being an illegal puppy farmer .Working dog people are moving their stud dogs interstate rather than have more than 3 fertile dogs on their properties. Pacers got an enquiry from someone who wanted advice on how to stop a breeder from shooting 6 of their pregnant dogs. I said I could get them out but as it involved using rescue people they wouldn't tell me where the property was and as far as I know the dogs were killed. You can say they shouldn't of had them in the first place and at least that will cut down on puppies they breed etc but that didn't help the poor bloody dogs. it wont stop the really big Legal commercial kennels breeding more to fill the gap either. Fact is only the requirements for a Domestic animal business has changed - now if you have 3 instead of 5 you need one .You always needed a Development application and council approval to breed dogs no matter how many you owned but now if you dont have that approval and if you are not a Vicdogs member and own 3 fertile dogs you become an illegal puppy farmer. but even if you are Vicdogs and own more than 3 fertile dogs you still need council approval and a development application to breed dogs from your property. This is something that almost impossible to drum into Vicdogs members who simply believe if they own under 10 they are off the hook - all they are off the hook for is the DAB - they are still illegal puppy farmers if they dont have council approval and they dont fit mandatory codes for breeding dogs. the reason that working dog people and those who are not Vicdogs are panicking is because the penalties now for not having council approvals is huge and they cant get these approvals until after they build the structures etc which fit mandatory codes etc. So hang on you may say as I did - surely no one is going to get in trouble for having 10 dogs on 100 acres which are well kept and have fields to run in and a warm kitchen to whelp in. Surely if I only have 10 and live on such a big property I dont need kennels etc Surely commonsense will cut in. Well very recently someone went to the council and asked what they needed to do to be able to have 10 fertile dogs on their 100 acre property and breed a couple of litters a year. They were told they had to have structures for the dogs to be able to comply with mandatory codes - like locking them up at night etc and that they could not put ONE breeding dog on their property until they had approvals .They currently have their dogs are all over the place including interstate until they can build their "structure" because they are too frightened to have their dogs on their property until they jump through all the hoops to get the approvals. The Victorian government has given Vicdogs a monopoly and people who choose not to be Vicdogs members or who cant be Vicdogs members are disadvantaged and treated as criminals. Not everyone who owns more than 3 fertile dogs or who breeds dogs which are not yet or which will ever be recognised by the ANKC are doing the wrong thing. The ANKC is not the only registry but the Victorian government has made it virtually impossible for any other org to have the same concessions as an applicable organisation. The MDBA was knocked back and we are currently appealing and we will win but truth is even though approval as an applicable org gives small benefits and you dont have to be a DAB everyone still comes under the same laws for breeding dogs and you still have to go with mandatory codes and council approvals - sell with chip numbers etc. All it really means is that instead of having the police, RSPCA and council to answer to you also have Vicdogs to answer to. Unless of course you count the councils which tell their residents they cant own any fertile dog without CC membership. They had better run an education program before they start policing it all because whether or not you include chip numbers in your ads is in reality the least of your problems. But you can advertise free to good home without a chip. Makes no sense if the goal is to stop idiots breeding mutts and unwanted litters - just looks to me that it will be easier to get a free puppy with no checks and no chips. Its a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't think the law is contradictory - I think the news article is, however.... All cats and dogs must now be microchipped before they are sold or given away. - that's the law so you must m/chip unless you get an exemption via a vet's letter. You don't need to put the m/chip number in an ad if you are giving the animal away....but it still must be microchipped...... That's the way I read it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Steve: The Victorian government has given Vicdogs a monopoly and people who choose not to be Vicdogs members or who cant be Vicdogs members are disadvantaged and treated as criminals. They should join Vicdogs to receive protection under the laws. There are no restrictions on what Vicdog members breed beyond not crossing registered purebreds. Technically a VICDOGs member could breed as many working Kelpies or crossbred dogs etc as they want without breaching the code of ethics. Pretty quick fix IMO. And not wildly expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There are no restrictions on what Vicdog members breed beyond not crossing registered purebreds. Technically a VICDOGs member could breed as many working Kelpies or crossbred dogs etc as they want without breaching the code of ethics. Telida, Would you give an iron-clad guarantee that the board of VicDogs could not change that situation at a board meeting and make it mandatory that all dogs bred by their members must be purebred ANKC dogs only? I couldn't. You see, the principles of fair trade have been trampled on by the combined weight of the largest dog registry in Victoria and the Victorian Government. Who stands to gain here? The breeders of good dogs who are doing the right thing by their dogs - which have pedigrees that are locked into independent registries? Or the Dogs Victoria bank account? This legislation needs a serious re-vamp, and soon. This is Australia - the land of freedoms and choices - or it used to be. There is nothing as prohibitive as Victoria's legislation in any of the other states, and one must ask why. Is it of greater benefit to Victorian dogs? No. Will it eliminate puppy farms? No. Will it ensure a greater income stream to councils and vets? Yes. Will it ensure a greater income stream to Dogs Victoria. Yes. Sure, it is easy to simply shut up and pay up and join Dogs Victoria. Definitely one for the shame file. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Steve: The Victorian government has given Vicdogs a monopoly and people who choose not to be Vicdogs members or who cant be Vicdogs members are disadvantaged and treated as criminals. They should join Vicdogs to receive protection under the laws. There are no restrictions on what Vicdog members breed beyond not crossing registered purebreds. Technically a VICDOGs member could breed as many working Kelpies or crossbred dogs etc as they want without breaching the code of ethics. Pretty quick fix IMO. And not wildly expensive. Telida, your idea is actually flawed. It is not a quick fix at all. Dogs Victoria will only issue breeding prefixes to breeders of ANKC recognised breeds. Fine for Australian Kelpies - but what about the other non-recognised breeds in Victoria? http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Portals/0/assets/aboutUs/Regulations%2015.11.11.pdf 4.2 PREFIXES 4.2.1 Management Committee shall keep and maintain a register of prefixes. A prefix registered by a member may only be used in respect of a breed of dog recognised by the ANKC. As Steve indicated, good breeders of other purebred dog breeds that ANKC have not recognised are now treated like criminals in Victoria if they want to continue breeding their dogs in Victoria. ANKC is not the only dog registry for purebred dog breeds. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Dogs Victoria will only issue breeding prefixes to breeders of ANKC recognised breeds. Fine for Australian Kelpies - but what about the other non-recognised breeds in Victoria? http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Portals/0/assets/aboutUs/Regulations%2015.11.11.pdf 4.2 PREFIXES 4.2.1 Management Committee shall keep and maintain a register of prefixes.[/b] A prefix registered by a member may only be used in respect of a breed of dog recognised by the ANKC. As Steve indicated, good breeders of other purebred dog breeds that ANKC have not recognised are now treated like criminals in Victoria if they want to continue breeding their dogs in Victoria. ANKC is not the only dog registry for purebred dog breeds. Souff Yes, you can only use the prefix for registered litters.. where does it say that you can't breed other non ANKC registered dogs dogs WITHOUT using the prefix?? No, ANKC is not the only dog registry. However its the only one that's succeeded in lobbying for its members to be recognised in legislation at this point in time. Given the choice between joining the poncy show mob for at least the shorter term or shooting my dogs, I'd say the choice is fairly simple. Wouldn't you? And as for submitting one' self to the "big stick" of a CC's control. All I can say is What control? Edited February 3, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Dogs Victoria will only issue breeding prefixes to breeders of ANKC recognised breeds. Fine for Australian Kelpies - but what about the other non-recognised breeds in Victoria? http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Portals/0/assets/aboutUs/Regulations%2015.11.11.pdf 4.2 PREFIXES 4.2.1 Management Committee shall keep and maintain a register of prefixes.[/b] A prefix registered by a member may only be used in respect of a breed of dog recognised by the ANKC. As Steve indicated, good breeders of other purebred dog breeds that ANKC have not recognised are now treated like criminals in Victoria if they want to continue breeding their dogs in Victoria. ANKC is not the only dog registry for purebred dog breeds. Souff Yes, you can only use the prefix for registered litters.. where does it say that you can't breed other non ANKC registered dogs dogs WITHOUT using the prefix?? Decent breeders of purebred dogs use a kennel prefix for their dogs. What use is a dog's pedigree without a kennel prefix - the primary identifier of bloodlines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Decent breeders of purebred dogs use a kennel prefix for their dogs. What use is a dog's pedigree without a kennel prefix - the primary identifier of bloodlines? You can still use a prefix... just not the ANKC registered one. People want to know how to breed dogs and protect their breeding dogs within the existing legislation. I've offered a solution. They can take it or leave it. Edited February 3, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 No, ANKC is not the only dog registry. However its the only one that's succeeded in lobbying for its members to be recognised in legislation at this point in time. Given the choice between joining the poncy show mob for at least the shorter term or shooting my dogs, I'd say the choice is fairly simple. Wouldn't you? And as for submitting one' self to the "big stick" of a CC's control. All I can say is What control? It is not a question of submitting to the big stick of CC control. If you looked into the regulations of the independent breed registries you will find that the codes are just as strict, and are policed. As far as the ANKC being able to have more sway with government, yes, this is true. And just look at the result they have achieved in Victoria. The puppy farms and the crossbreeding will continue. Some of Australia's oldest dog breeds have been left out in the cold in Victoria, but are treated much better in other states. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Some of Australia's oldest dog breeds have been left out in the cold in Victoria, but are treated much better in other states.Souff Lets not condemn Dogs Vic for lobbying for its members. Expand the membership and they can lobby for that too. Has anyone approached Dogsvic to see if they will open the Working Register to entire dogs? To open a register for "breeds in development" or FCI recognised breeds not yet recognised in their country of origin. The ANKC is not the bad guy here. I've offered one way breeders of non-ANKC recognised dogs can bring them in from the cold if they choose to. What happens after that is up to those involved. As usual, only responsible dog owners will be troubled by this. Those that don't bother with registration etc will continue to breed dogs as they have always done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Some of Australia's oldest dog breeds have been left out in the cold in Victoria, but are treated much better in other states.Souff Lets not condemn Dogs Vic for lobbying for its members. Expand the membership and they can lobby for that too. Has anyone approached Dogsvic to see if they will open the Working Register to entire dogs? To open a register for "breeds in development" or FCI recognised breeds not yet recognised in their country of origin. The ANKC is not the bad guy here. Telida, the steamroller approach of governments only wanting to deal with "peak bodies" is what is really at fault here. It is at the root of the problem and it deserves the attention of constitutional lawyers. re Breeds in Development - unless the rules have changed about getting a breed recognised by ANKC, you can be pretty sure that the ANKC don't want to invite more breeds to the ANKC party. From memory, breeds in development required something like 500 entire breeding dogs before they could apply. All alive and kicking. In a country that has probably got the highest rate of de-sexing dogs and where councils basically don't want people to have dogs and where the numbers of people still interested in breeding dogs are dropping like flies. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Steve: The Victorian government has given Vicdogs a monopoly and people who choose not to be Vicdogs members or who cant be Vicdogs members are disadvantaged and treated as criminals. They should join Vicdogs to receive protection under the laws. There are no restrictions on what Vicdog members breed beyond not crossing registered purebreds. Technically a VICDOGs member could breed as many working Kelpies or crossbred dogs etc as they want without breaching the code of ethics. Pretty quick fix IMO. And not wildly expensive. Yep you are right they cant stop you breeding dogs which are not registered with them and any old cross bred breeder can get in and breed without needing a DAB and even sell to pet shops.. You don't even need a dog to be a breeder member - all you need is a prefix . Good little money spinner for Vicdogs - sort of shoots all of their marketing about breeders and purebred dogs etc down though. The whole microchip thing is good if they make it the same for everyone and if they police it .But if someone hasnt chipped a dog it cant be given away or sold so why do they need an exemption from advertising the chip if they are giving it away? Why would more be dumped when they have to be chipped anyway ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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