Puppy Buyer Etiquette

[BlaznHotAussies]

I had no idea buying a puppy was that scary!!

Some of the stuff I wouldn't have even given a thought...but good to read though.

I will admit, I find breeders a bit intimidating at the best of times - I realise there is a lot involved in bringing on puppies and the like...so they don't want the dog going to just anyone...

I'm just amazed how easily a breeder is put off by the first email if it's not exactly right...

[espinay2]

I answer all emails, even the short ones - but they get my standard reply (which is actually fairly detailed) and you do get sick of them after a while as they really tell you nothing. It is amazing too how many times that is the last you hear of them. There are a lot of window shoppers out there so it is always a breath of fresh air to get a well considered email from a person who is serious and willing to put the time in, and doesn't just fire off a one liner to every breeder they have an address for just to test the waters. It is also annoying after spending time answering multiple queries from someone to suddenly have them drop off the face of the earth with no explanation. I will spend plenty of time answering queries from and helping out people who are serious and courteous and am more than happy to do it (even if they tell me in the end they have decided not to get a pup from me), but we have lives too and don't enjoy being stuffed around and being left hanging. There are two sides to every story and I think this article sheds plenty of light on the breeders side of things :) .

[Kmak]

I agree with some of these suggestions for puppy buyers and had a good laugh at the last few paragraphs but I can also see how puppy buyers such as myself would be put off. I am in the process of purchasing a puppy to show, only 3 more weeks to go before I finally go and pick up my first show puppy, and I have found a fantastic breeder who I was referred to by another breeder. Previous to this I have sent really long emails as suggested with no response what so ever to several breeders. I have also rung breeders who were quite rude at first but once we started talking they became more human. I did not click with them as the rudeness put me off straight away. I was polite and said I was only inquiring at this stage to gather information on what was out there and to see if anyone was willing to sell me a puppy for showing. It has taken me three years to find a pup that will fit in with our family and a breeder willing to sell me a pup to show. To be honest I wanted a girl to start with but have ended up with a boy on suggestion from the breeder. I am really happy with her suggestion as the boy that I am getting is just lovely.

With my 3 years experience of trying to purchase a pup, I think it is extremely hard to buy from a breeder and I can understand why people, who do not have as much persistence as I do, go to puppy farmers, pet shops and backyard breeders. Since I have spent time with show/breeders of dogs I hear all the time how they hate these puppy farmers etc but when trying to purchase a puppy from a breeder it can be very full on for the regular Joe Blow who just wants a companion to sit with them on the couch. When emails are not returned and breeders are rude on the phone the average Joe Blow will normally go 'this is just too hard. All I want is a pup to love and have as a family member. I think I will go buy off Fred down the road who will be happy to take my money and give me the loving puppy that I can't seem to get off a breeder'. As a business owner I understand that some people are quiet irritating but sometimes you just have to deal with these people. I don't want to see Joe Blow going to a puppy farm to purchase a puppy.

[Odin-Genie]

I think things like this put off some of the very people that would approach things the right way while the people who are difficult buyers don't care.

I don't like hard and fast rules for every puppy buyer either. I simply wouldn't go to a breeder who wouldn't let me have any input into the puppy choice. Of course i would want them to have input as well. But i wouldn't respond well to being told which puppy was mine with no choice. On the flip side- i wish many people i know had had an experienced breeder choose their puppy for them as they didn't have the experience to do so. Every puppy buyer is different.

Totally agree, particularly with the bolded part. A puppy is going to spend its entire life with me. I will not just accept a breeder's pick. A breeder knows their puppies best but I know my requirements and my situation best. I expect to have a discussion about it including my preferences for temperament, colour, attitude.

I don't expect to be given the first pick. That is always the breeder's prerogative, but I expect to be able to select from a few that match my requirements. I am very lucky that both the breeders I got my dogs from allowed me to do this and were very nice about it.

I understand why breeders would feel protective of their puppies. After all they are the ones who have put in the time and effort and want to do the best for their puppies. But I also think that it pays to see it from a puppy buyers' perspective as well who want to welcome a new member to their family. It's a big decision and a big responsibility. They should be active participants in the decision making.

[Vicsta]

Hmmm... This is an interesting find. I'm about to purchase my first purebred pup, and I have spoken with a couple of different breeders. It's difficult as a first time buyer to know what to ask, I knew I'd chosen a suitable breed after speaking with other owners so it was just a matter of finding a transparent breeder, and the healthiest, nicest looking sire and dam as I saw it. Health tests are not a requirement of the breed I'm after so there's usually no written proof of the health probability of the litter other than the breeders word. After asking mine if she performs any health tests or hip scores, I was told there was no need to as they only breed from healthy stock. I also asked if the pup would come with any kind of health guarantee to have this question completely ignored.

I'm a serious buyer, have already put down a substantial deposit just to show my interest, I've informed the breeder all about myself and my family, our situation, and my intentions with the pup. All of which they were more than happy about yet my simple questions are ignored. I've written it off as breeders are busy, don't like nosy buyers or ones who ask too many questions, I really didn't want to wait until we pick up the pup to still be asking these questions but I'm told that's when all will be explained. I hope so, after reading on here about so many people purchasing purebred pups just to have hip/elbow problems which require expensive surgery in the first year of the dogs life, its concerning. We've always had rescued crossbreeds, most from very young and we've never ever had to have surgery on any of them.

I think all anyone expects is transparency and honesty from both sides.

[OSoSwift]

What breed are you looking into. DOLers would then be able to let you know if there are any health testing that should be done prior to breeding.

I was once told a certain condition wasn't tested for as they didn't have that in their lines. All fine and good until my girl died from the condition at 8 and a half!!! All required health testing etc should be talked about BEFORE you commit to buying a puppy - and the breeder commits to selling, no way I would say I would take a puppy to only get told about those things when I pick the puppy up.

[Salukifan]

Hmmm... This is an interesting find. I'm about to purchase my first purebred pup, and I have spoken with a couple of different breeders. It's difficult as a first time buyer to know what to ask, I knew I'd chosen a suitable breed after speaking with other owners so it was just a matter of finding a transparent breeder, and the healthiest, nicest looking sire and dam as I saw it. Health tests are not a requirement of the breed I'm after so there's usually no written proof of the health probability of the litter other than the breeders word. After asking mine if she performs any health tests or hip scores, I was told there was no need to as they only breed from healthy stock. I also asked if the pup would come with any kind of health guarantee to have this question completely ignored.

I'm a serious buyer, have already put down a substantial deposit just to show my interest, I've informed the breeder all about myself and my family, our situation, and my intentions with the pup. All of which they were more than happy about yet my simple questions are ignored. I've written it off as breeders are busy, don't like nosy buyers or ones who ask too many questions, I really didn't want to wait until we pick up the pup to still be asking these questions but I'm told that's when all will be explained. I hope so, after reading on here about so many people purchasing purebred pups just to have hip/elbow problems which require expensive surgery in the first year of the dogs life, its concerning. We've always had rescued crossbreeds, most from very young and we've never ever had to have surgery on any of them.

I think all anyone expects is transparency and honesty from both sides.

Substanial deposit and breeder ignoring questions.. tread carefully. What breed are we talikng about here?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Substanial deposit and breeder ignoring questions.. tread carefully. What breed are we talikng about here?

Agree. Also, I disagree that no health tests are required.

In some breeds, including mine, there are no genetic tests available for the top three diseases of concern. That doesn't mean no health preparation is required before breeding. Often our breeds have recommended protocols like waiting until a dog is past the risk age period for the diseases of concern before breeding and I would also expect some analysis of the pedigree. By that I don't mean "there are no problems in my line mate (or luv)".

At the minimum, the dam (mother) should be going to the vet to get a pre-breeding health check, basic heart check, thyroid test, swab.

It would depend a bit on the breed for me, but I'd rather kiss the deposit goodbye than go with something I'm not happy with in a higher risk breed. Nothing is risk free, and anyone telling you so is bulls***ing.

Edited to say, when I say nothing is risk free, I'm including buying from rescue or a pound. Animals are living organisms, with the associated risk, and all you can do is improve your odds.

Edited March 21, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Vicsta]

Weimaraner.

I'm probing the breeder, gently, but to keep to the original content of this thread. Breeders are not always easy people to deal with. Of course going into this in a few years after having had my first dog of this breed will be much easier, I'll know what I need to ask to ensure I'm dealing with a great breeder and great dogs. But the first time anyone approaches a breeder, instead of either being ignored or grilled with questions immediately, they should be praised for seeking out a registered breeder, rather than going underground. THEN, the questions should start, there's absolutely no reason not to be friendly at minimum. Luckily I have also had many other weim people contact me and invest some time into educating me on the breed and clubs available so I know I'll have friendly contacts to call on if I need to.

[becks]

I'm pretty sure Weimaraners should be hip scored.

[Vicsta]

'should' at the moment, here in Australia, is a matter of opinion unfortunately, in my opinion all large breeds should be tested prior to breeding but I've recently discovered it is not mandatory to score weims currently in Australia. And alot of breeders here are of the opinion it's not even a problem in weims, which has apparently been proven false, still many don't do it. I have no clue why not, is it expensive? Does it require the dog to be sedated and breeders don't want to do that? I've seen the parents, and they look good but it's still a concern for me. If I were a breeder, for my own peace of mind, I'd cover as many bases as possible, have everything that might cause a problem checked, but I'm not a breeder.

[aussielover]

'should' at the moment, here in Australia, is a matter of opinion unfortunately, in my opinion all large breeds should be tested prior to breeding but I've recently discovered it is not mandatory to score weims currently in Australia. And alot of breeders here are of the opinion it's not even a problem in weims, which has apparently been proven false, still many don't do it. I have no clue why not, is it expensive? Does it require the dog to be sedated and breeders don't want to do that? I've seen the parents, and they look good but it's still a concern for me. If I were a breeder, for my own peace of mind, I'd cover as many bases as possible, have everything that might cause a problem checked, but I'm not a breeder.

It does require the dog to be sedated. And it is a couple of hundred dollars.

However in a large gundog breed, it would be something that I personally would expect.

Weimeraners do get HD. Maybe not to the extent of Labrador or GRs, but it is certainly present in the Australian weim population.

[SparkyTansy]

'should' at the moment, here in Australia, is a matter of opinion unfortunately, in my opinion all large breeds should be tested prior to breeding but I've recently discovered it is not mandatory to score weims currently in Australia. And alot of breeders here are of the opinion it's not even a problem in weims, which has apparently been proven false, still many don't do it. I have no clue why not, is it expensive? Does it require the dog to be sedated and breeders don't want to do that? I've seen the parents, and they look good but it's still a concern for me. If I were a breeder, for my own peace of mind, I'd cover as many bases as possible, have everything that might cause a problem checked, but I'm not a breeder.

I'm not sure where you got that information from... yes, it's not a "requirement" set out by the ANKC or the Breed clubs, but most breeders do hip score. MOST breeds, especially large breeds, have HD occuring in the breed, and just because it's not mandatory to score it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done as a precaution. It's also a polygenic condition, meaning just because it hasn't shown up for 5 generations it doesn't mean it won't show up.

Hip scoring is not foolproof - you can have two great hip scores and still produce a HD affected puppy, but by screening for it beforehand means it is just one more step the breeder has taken to ensure that they are trying their best to make sure it doesn't occur. I score my dogs, and will continue to do so, however I will never guarantee that it can't occur, because there is no way I can predict that - I can only do my best by scoring and hoping for the best.

I have a dog with HD, it's a debilitating defect and horrible thing to go through, both the dogs and the owners.

Weimaraners also have many other conditions worth asking about - skin problems/ear problems, HOD, Immunodeficiency. If you aren't getting answers from the breeder, seek out people through the breed club who have puppies from the breeder. If your breeder isn't being forthcoming with information, previous puppy buyers have no reason not to be.

As for the OP - I think that a lot of it was very on the money, but I dont like to cookie cut buyers. I answer all enquiries thoroughly (sometimes perhaps a little too thoroughly because I think i've scared off a few people in the past). I also like to use my gut. I try to come across as friendly but the care I have for my dogs and puppies I'm placing in homes is paramount and if that puts someone off I don'tmean it.

[Vicsta]

Hi sparky,

I got that info from another breeder, but I won't mention names here, who told me that many breeders don't score. Another breeder told me that only breeders with hd in their lines bother to score, of course I don't believe this. I've spoken with previous puppy buyers and they haven't had any problems, one of them is a repeat puppy buyer.

Sparky do you mind me asking your prefix? Or is that against forum rules? I wouldn't know. I might have spoken to you in the last few months.

Thanks for your info.

[SparkyTansy]

I'll PM you vicsta

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Just going to update what I said about getting a swab pre mating. I spoke with my vet about it this morning when I took one of my girls in for a pre breeding check. The vet said that unless there are signs of disease, the area that is swabbed is frequently contaminated by outside bacteria making the results not very useful. She said that she'll do them on a maiden bitch if the stud dog owner wants them, or if there are signs of disease. On a bitch that has had litters, only if the previous pups have faded or something else has happened to indicate there may be a bacterial problem. So, I learned something today!

[JaCaMa]

Hmmm... Well this is an interesting thread, I wish I had come across this last week, when I contacted multiple breeders to enquire about the process of buying a puppy from them. I have only ever owned dogs from the pound or a pet shop, and didn't realise there was an etiquette to be followed when dealing with a breeder. It does explain why I haven't heard back from a single one, despite also following up with a phone call several days after sending an email. After doing research, I discovered that the breed I want is not overly common, so thought by contacting the breeders from the official 'clubs' list (5 here in SE Qld) - and making contact with them, (via a brief email or online form) I would then have a better idea of how long the process would be, and what that process ACTUALLY is.

I'm actually extremely dissapointed that despite all the time I've spent reading, talking to owners of the breed & waiting patiently for the best time for my family to welcome a new member, it seems that it may not be a reality after all. I really don't think it should be too much to expect a breeder get back to me with the basic information. I don't expect a puppy in my lap within the week, but do think I should be able to know are they currently breeding?, is there a current litter?, how long is the waiting list generally? What is the process for approval? What is the history of the pups heritage, health history etc...

Anyways, a lesson learnt I guess. I really do feel sad about it all, and if this usual practice, then I'm probably not the only one who will go back to a pet shop or shelter for a pup, which is ironic, because my not wanting to support byb's or puppy farms is what got me looking at purebred dogs to begin with

[karly101]

JaCaMa ... I don't think email is the best way to approach many breeders. If you are seriously interested call them. A phone conversation can answer all your questions much more quickly and less work for the breeder than them sitting down typing all that out and it shows them that you are very keen and hopefully start the process of them getting to know you and find out what you are looking for in a pup. If there are not many breeders be prepared to wait some time for a pup.

[JaCaMa]

Hi Karly, thanks for your reply. I did phone (and email) all the breeders that had ph numbers on their website/club site, and left a message, but nobody has got back to me. I completely understand that buying a pup from a breeder can be a long process, and I'm most certainly patient enough to wait for the right time/pup/breeder, but it has to start somewhere, and my point is if any of them don't even bother returning my ph call, the ball cant ever start rolling if you know what I mean.

I'm just so dissapointed by the whole situation. I spent so long researching to even get to this point, and then to hit a brick wall straight up. And it's not like you can go 'oh well, I'll go to another breeder', because there isn't any. I don't know if its just me, or if this a common theme. The people I know who own purebred dogs have never had issues with opening a dialogue with breeders, and throughout my research, I never came across anything that would suggest I would have a problem either. In fact I joined this forum in anticipation of being able to chat & share with people the journey of getting & having a purebred dog.

I have looked as far away as I could manage to travel, a friend did her buying by email/phone & had her pup transprted to her. It isn't really my style though, I would prefer to meet a breeder in person, meet the dogs & look at the environment etc, not too mention I don't have the time or finances to manage interstate expeditions. I don't know what else I can do?

[mr.mister]

JaCaMa, what breed is it that you're looking for? DOL is home to many breed owners and breeders alike, someone may be able to recommend a breeder for you or point you in the right direction. Try not to be disheartened - it's disappointing, but it will all be worth it when you finally have your puppy. It just takes perseverance and it often helps if you know someone who could recommend you to the right breeder.

eta: Don't limit your search to your area, particularly with an uncommon breed. People buy pups interstate regularly, it's just a matter of finding a good breeder that you trust.

Edited May 27, 2012 by mr.mister