Animal Lovers That Dislike Children

[mr.mister]

Noting again the dislike of those who don't like children. You should have a think about how you feel about mature members of your own species.

Agree. The irony amuses me.

Now people are assuming that people who don't like kids must have been mistreated as children. Interesting.

If that is in relation to my comments what I meant was can you imagine being subjected to a negative attitude as a child because some random person thinks you are smelly, boring, loud based purely on your age ..... read into that what you will, I made no assumptions

And as far as how I feel about mature members of my species, I wouldn't generalise about that just like I wouldn't generalise about children. Each individual taken on their own merit, some are a little more trying than others :laugh:

Why is that everyone assumes people who aren't fond of kids are standardly rude to them and tell them they're smelly, boring, loud, annoying or whatever adjective you want to throw in there? Most people, even if they don't generally like kids, have no desire to treat them badly, hurt their feelings or let them know they're not liked. If parents don't let their kids run amok or harass strangers there's little chance of their kids copping a mouthful. If a child is being a little monster the first person I will address is the parent. If the parent isn't in sight or won't do anything then I'll tell the little monster to cut it out and probably not too politely (and by that I don't mean swearing at them, just not babying them), but I would never tell them they're horrible little monsters who should never have been born. Give us a little bit of credit would you? I don't particularly like the smell that often eminates from some of the homeless drunks that live in the city but I'm not rude to them if they talk to me. I don't tell them they smell awful and I feel like vomiting nor do I let them see that on my face. It's called manners and I find it astounding that so many parents equate not liking children to not having any.

This! I don't see anywhere that anyone has stated they are openly rude and nasty to kids. Really interesting how people seem to have come to this conclusion. :laugh:

[hortfurball]

My experience of babies holds more weight than yours in a thread asking why some animal lovers would dislike children. We already know that most people like children. We already know why they do. I thought this thread was to explore why some people don't. You are right that I have never had the good experiences with babies necessary to form a positive opinion of them. And I don't seem to be biologically driven to desire one like most people do. But don't tell me that I am shallow or that my opinion doesn't hold weight.

Am I wrong about this thread and it is actually just here to have a go at people who don't want kids? If so, I'm sorry I bothered to post here for the benefit of trolls.

That's calling it true. I don't think any of us expected to be called shallow for having the guts to come out and try to answer the initial rather controversial question honestly and straightforwardly.

People have the right to like or dislike anything they choose, it is how they express those choices that is interesting.

Whether it be about life choices like children or pets, or tastes in fashion or food, how a person expresses themselves is very telling.

Well, given that we're at 26 pages (I haven't even made it past P22 at time of posting) and there are some that STILL don't get it, and are STILL treating us as if we're broken because we don't go all gushy over the idea of a baby, then I think I'll just stick with "I don't like kids." It's quicker and easier than going into all the individual conditions and exceptions, and if people ask why, "I have my reasons." is an involved enough answer.

People have the right to like or dislike anything they choose, it is how they express those choices that is interesting.

Whether it be about life choices like children or pets, or tastes in fashion or food, how a person expresses themselves is very telling.

well I can't speak for other posters but it gets pretty annoying when you have to keep explaining yourself because people just can't accept the way you want to live your life.

Not meaning here, but everywhere.

So true!

People seem hung up on the word shallow.

I'm in the phone so can't quote, so I'll do my best.

I figured from some of the posts that 'shallow' was meant to convey lack of depth of experience or understanding. NOT Shallow as in selfish, un informed, bigoted, self centred.

But I could be wrong.

It came across as the second meaning to me and a few others, Greytmate obviously being one of them.

no...animals is not usually as bad. Unless it's the "you may as well have kids if you are going to have so many animals"

not being a kid person is usually treated as worse, like there is something wrong with you.

Yep, Leper syndrome - just add lack of biological desire for children or appreciation of others' and watch people back away.

From OP's very first post in this thread

On a plane returning to Australia from Vienna an old woman sat beside me, glanced at my 6 months old baby, pulled a sour face, called the flight attendant and stated "I specifically requested NOT to be seated next to one of those"! She got moved.

It is how people openly express themselves that I believe the OP was questioning.

Whether someone likes or dislikes children or chooses to have children or not isn't the issue IMO

It is however obvious that many have no issue with people being so openly rude.

then you aren't reading posts properly. I and other people said that she was very rude. I said earlier that she may have just been a very rude person and it had nothing to do with whether or not she liked kids

others agreed that they wouldn't want to sit next to a child, but not necessarily agreed with how she went about it

This. The OP had a few questions in it, not just the bit you quoted Crisovar. I think it's quite rare that someone would be that outwardly rude. Not one person here has said they'd be nasty to a child. The overall consensus is we just like to avoid them if possible but can deal fairly and humanely with them when required. We're not monsters, although sometimes are treated as such.

Wow, just glanced at the latest posts...given how relevant to the current posts my comments are, it seems that we haven't moved forward in 4 pages.

[hortfurball]

On the other hand...

Take for example my Daughter, who is a 3.5 years old and extremely social. She loves to greet people (strangers) wherever we go, just to say hello. She doesn't harass anyone and usually won't say any more than hello unless they respond positively. From what a lot of people have said in this thread it seems to me that this kind of behaviour is looked upon unfavourably and would be ignored (and rightly so the attitude seems), but if it were an adult doing the greeting you would be considered rude to ignore them. Huge double standard there.

Actually, if your child came up and said hello, I'd smile and say hello back, whereas I struggle to respond appropriately to 'greeters' being paid to say hello to me in Bunnings (I don't get the point of this - it's not like they are offering their help to find something, it's just a random person blocking your way and insisting you interact with them for a split second for no good reason And they're not even genuine, they're being PAID to do it! WTF?)

I could get shot in the foot for this but I do genuinely wonder how many anti kid people (seemingly most are women?) dislike and don't want kids at their choice entirely or that they were dealt a horrible hand at life and were not able to procreate and now hold a bitterness towards them. Just a thought, I don't want anyone to answer this, it's just a theory I have.

Totally disagree with this theory.

I am totally able to have kids and I don't like them. Well I assume that I could have had kids if I wanted to. My ability to have a child was never tested.

Same here.

BTW Donatella, didn't your first post on this subject vanish due to insensitivity? I'm rather surprised you went there again. Also, it is not necessary to presume we are all bitter and twisted because we don't think exactly the same as you do.

From what I can observe in this thread, there seem to be two pretty clear cut arguments. People who don't like babies and can't understand why others don't understand this, and people who like babies and can't understand why other people don't.

A mother, or person who like babies, is never going to be able to convince someone who doesn't like babies that they are the most wonderful thing in the world and that there are a thousand and one reasons why it doesn't make sense not to like them. No matter how solid your argument appears in your head, sorry, it ain't gonna happen.

Someone who doesn't like babies is going to have a very hard time convincing a mother, or someone who likes babies, that their point is valid. They love their children and have experienced what I am sure only a parent can experience to make them think like this.

I'm quite confused as to why both parties are so worked up about forcing their opinions across. It's quite plain to see that this has become a verbal tennis match - back and forward, back and forward.

Who cares if someone thinks babies are the best thing since sliced bread? Who cares if someone thinks babies are blobs of festering smelliness? None of you are going to be able to convince each other otherwise. :laugh:

Opinions are great, but this really seems to have become a case of "No, you don't understand, let me prove my point!"

Just my two cents.

Awesome post!

I still care about being considered a leper though, and about the misconception that we are all running around telling children and the mothers of newborn babies that we think they're awful. ;) And the misconception that we think it's perfectly ok for others to do this too.

I could get shot in the foot for this but I do genuinely wonder how many anti kid people (seemingly most are women?) dislike and don't want kids at their choice entirely or that they were dealt a horrible hand at life and were not able to procreate and now hold a bitterness towards them. Just a thought, I don't want anyone to answer this, it's just a theory I have.

Am answering for me anyway. It is NOT BITTERNESS .

If you have suffered a loss, some people simply sometimes dont like having the pain of that loss shoved in their face to make the mental hurt and anguish worse.

There is a BIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!

Some people may express they dont 'like' or 'get on' with kids because it is the simplest and easiest way to explain to someone without going into a whole essay about why they may not want to be around that particular child.

Maybe the child is being a right brat and annoying the heck out of them and this is the 'polite' way to say 'your parenting skills suck'

Maybe they are feeling unwell and need to sleep and rest and being disturbed by a child will do them no good - other people may have health issues they don't tell you about

Maybe they have suffered loss and having the child around is opening too many wounds that are too much to bear - be careful as the extreme flip side may be a woman who snaps and steals the child.

Maybe they have suffered from post natal depression and having your child around and in their face is helping to kick that back into gear - something they dont want to deal with I'll bet.

MAYBE by saying simply they dont particularly like kids they are BEING POLITE and trying to withdraw from the situaiton - and hoping you will respect their space and not shove your child at them.

There may be a LOT more to someone saying they 'don't like' kids than it seems on the surface

Maybe these same people are more than happy to interact with children at certain other times and really enjoy it - but also maybe NOT RIGHT NOW.

Rant over... for now

Another excellent post!

Okay let's put aside the discussion that is based purely on whether people like children or not, or whether they wish to engage with children, have them or whatever. AND This has nothing to do with the woman on the plane , which as I stated in previous posts was not really a good example to use.

What about the transferance of a "treated as child" like affection to say a dog or cat WHILST not liking children.

Why treat a dog like an entity that you have no time for? What is wrong with aknowledging it is in fact a dog and not a child, if in fact you don't particularly like kids anyway?

I don't think you'll find one person who has admitted to not being fond of children in this thread who thinks of their dog as a child. I think DorytheDotedOne was correct with her 'princess' theory, and I'm not sure those types would be on DOL. If their dog is their 'child', they'd more likely be found on a kiddies forum, not a dog forum. ;)

Edited March 4, 2012 by hortfurball

[sandgrubber]

I don't know if it is so much a case of animal lovers disliking children as it is that more and more are raising the animals up to be of equal standing.

If someone cannot have children and decides to get a dog and treat it with as much importance as they would have done with a child, what is so bad about that?

It's when they treat the dog as a person. A dog is a dog and treating them as a child does no one any good. I have a friend who treats her dogs as children and they behave like spoilt bratty children

Oh I agree with that, I was just meaning the importance attached to them, as in "my dog is as important to me as a child would be, because I can't have them", kind of thing. Hope that makes more sense!

Are you saying that a spoiled dog is worse than a spoiled child? No way! The simple fact that the child will almost always live longer, has more rights, and consumes more resources makes the spoiled child a bigger negative to family and society than a spoiled dog. If someone is going to do a rotten job of balancing nurture with teaching of social norms, I'd much rather they get a puppy than take the baby bonus.

[LizT]

Okay let's put aside the discussion that is based purely on whether people like children or not, or whether they wish to engage with children, have them or whatever. AND This has nothing to do with the woman on the plane , which as I stated in previous posts was not really a good example to use.

What about the transferance of a "treated as child" like affection to say a dog or cat WHILST not liking children.

Why treat a dog like an entity that you have no time for? What is wrong with aknowledging it is in fact a dog and not a child, if in fact you don't particularly like kids anyway?

I don't think you'll find one person who has admitted to not being fond of children in this thread who thinks of their dog as a child. I think DorytheDotedOne was correct with her 'princess' theory, and I'm not sure those types would be on DOL. If their dog is their 'child', they'd more likely be found on a kiddies forum, not a dog forum. ;)

I agree. I think that the majority of those who would participate in a dog forum are very loving but realistic and practical about the way in which they treat their pets. But I'm sure we have all been witness to the "pet treated as child' paradym I refer to. But I don't think you'd find them on a kiddies forum.

[LizT]

I don't know if it is so much a case of animal lovers disliking children as it is that more and more are raising the animals up to be of equal standing.

If someone cannot have children and decides to get a dog and treat it with as much importance as they would have done with a child, what is so bad about that?

It's when they treat the dog as a person. A dog is a dog and treating them as a child does no one any good. I have a friend who treats her dogs as children and they behave like spoilt bratty children

Oh I agree with that, I was just meaning the importance attached to them, as in "my dog is as important to me as a child would be, because I can't have them", kind of thing. Hope that makes more sense!

Are you saying that a spoiled dog is worse than a spoiled child? No way! The simple fact that the child will almost always live longer, has more rights, and consumes more resources makes the spoiled child a bigger negative to family and society than a spoiled dog. If someone is going to do a rotten job of balancing nurture with teaching of social norms, I'd much rather they get a puppy than take the baby bonus.

I don't think this was implied. I totally agree Sandgrubber, the impact on society would be vaster and have far reaching repurcussions in comparison. The spoilt dog only impacts on those the owner allows it to come into contact with. In some instances that could very well mean very few people or other dogs. As many a spoilt dog I've encountered also seems to be poorly socialised as well.

[Guest Tess32]

I didn't call anyone shallow at all, read properly. I said Greytmate's appreciation of babies was shallow (you know, definition being lacks depth or is superficial, a surface appreciation) because she hasn't had an intimate or long term relationship with a baby, and therefore cannot appreciate certain aspects about babies/toddlers that can come with knowing them better.

What exactly about that are you all disputing? If someone has spent very very little time with a baby OR dog, would you call their knowledge of a baby or dog, "deep"?! I'm thinking not.

It's really not an insult. My appreciation of cars, boats, computer programming, cats...ALL SHALLOW, because I don't know much about it! Get the point now?

Now as for this quote "There is nothing appealing to me about babies, they are grotty, loud and annoying.Your affection is all in your head, and caused by the hormones designed to keep the species alive. Like a dog acting on its instincts to bury a bone, there is no deeper intellectual basis for you liking your baby, or you having a shot at the people that don't."

Is your love for a partner shallow? Because most of us fall in love without doing a critical analysis of whether our partner meets all our criteria. What about our love for our parents? We love them by default, so again, is it meaningless, is it like a dog burying a bone?

Emotional responses may not be intellectual but they are not less valid or less powerful. Most of the important things in our lives are emotional, not intellectual - our family, our emotional connection to music or literature, our emotional connection to our new gorgeous puppy or a dog we have rescued, falling into giddy love with our partners, finding a special friend. Those things are 'all in our head' too.

[Silvawilow]

This! I don't see anywhere that anyone has stated they are openly rude and nasty to kids. Really interesting how people seem to have come to this conclusion. :laugh:

Yep agreed - haven't generally seen anyone make that statement on here.

However, in saying that I have experinced in the Supermarket the odd person (with no child in tow) glaring at my daughter who's always seated in the trolley and as we shop we chat about the products I'm buying, not one of those loud obnoxious children. Sadly she has noticed once and when she asked why that person was glaring at her I simply told her that they were a "rude and ugly inside" to which they had the decency to blush and hurry away.

[Greytmate]

This thread is a good example of how hormones affect some mothers. Instead of being able to accept that some people don't like babies, they fly into a rage and start the insults.

But perhaps that was the reason for the thread?

[raz]

However, in saying that I have experinced in the Supermarket the odd person (with no child in tow) glaring at my daughter who's always seated in the trolley and as we shop we chat about the products I'm buying, not one of those loud obnoxious children.

I think there's your answer, Silver. That's extremely odd.

Edited March 4, 2012 by raz

[Silvawilow]

This thread is a good example of how hormones affect some mothers. Instead of being able to accept that some people don't like babies, they fly into a rage and start the insults.

Huh?

I don't give a flying fruit tingle if other people like kids or dislike them so long as it doesn't affect my life who cares. I do have a problem with those who are openly rude to innocent children.

On the flip side - I don't refer to my dogs as furkids - but if others want to refer to their pets in that way good for them - it doesn't affect my life.

[Polgara's Shadow]

This! I don't see anywhere that anyone has stated they are openly rude and nasty to kids. Really interesting how people seem to have come to this conclusion. :laugh:

Yep agreed - haven't generally seen anyone make that statement on here.

However, in saying that I have experinced in the Supermarket the odd person (with no child in tow) glaring at my daughter who's always seated in the trolley and as we shop we chat about the products I'm buying, not one of those loud obnoxious children. Sadly she has noticed once and when she asked why that person was glaring at her I simply told her that they were a "rude and ugly inside" to which they had the decency to blush and hurry away.

How about teaching your child about tolerance and compassion? Surely fighting rudeness with nastiness isn't what anyone should be teaching their children :rolleyes:

I can just hear your daughter now at the playground telling some kid theyre rude and ugly on the inside.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Polgara's Shadow

[Silvawilow]

How about teaching your child about tolerance and compassion? Surely fighting rudeness with nastiness isn't what anyone should be teaching their children :rolleyes:

I can just hear your daughter now at the playground telling some kid theyre rude and ugly on the inside.

I prefer honesty and cannot stand the sugar coated dribble that some people like ;) The person was rude IMO - why should I have to lie to make that person feel fluffy on the inside?

[Cat]

I didn't call anyone shallow at all, read properly. I said Greytmate's appreciation of babies was shallow (you know, definition being lacks depth or is superficial, a surface appreciation) because she hasn't had an intimate or long term relationship with a baby, and therefore cannot appreciate certain aspects about babies/toddlers that can come with knowing them better.

no, before all of that you said if someone doesn't like babies because they smell then they are shallow.

I said, kids are as individual as any other human, so it makes no sense to me to say "I don't like children". It's like saying "I don't like men" or "I don't like women". It isn't logical. They don't all act the same, have the same personalities. If 'disliking kids' is based on the fact they poo in nappies and therefore smell for about 5 minutes of their day, then well...I just call that shallow.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Cat

[dog_fan]

How about teaching your child about tolerance and compassion? Surely fighting rudeness with nastiness isn't what anyone should be teaching their children :rolleyes:

I can just hear your daughter now at the playground telling some kid theyre rude and ugly on the inside.

I prefer honesty and cannot stand the sugar coated dribble that some people like ;) The person was rude IMO - why should I have to lie to make that person feel fluffy on the inside?

Because maybe something had happened to them recently that made them feel bad.

You could have equally said "I don't know why they are looking like that, maybe something has happened to make them mad/sad/upset. Don't worry about them, we are having a good time"

You are not making the person who heard you fluffy inside you are giving your child the option of having empathy.

[Polgara's Shadow]

How about teaching your child about tolerance and compassion? Surely fighting rudeness with nastiness isn't what anyone should be teaching their children :rolleyes:

I can just hear your daughter now at the playground telling some kid theyre rude and ugly on the inside.

I prefer honesty and cannot stand the sugar coated dribble that some people like ;) The person was rude IMO - why should I have to lie to make that person feel fluffy on the inside?

Honesty? Your really think you were being honest to your child in that situation? Wow. I'm actually dumbfounded and don't know how to respond to that.

[Greytmate]

This thread is a good example of how hormones affect some mothers. Instead of being able to accept that some people don't like babies, they fly into a rage and start the insults.

Huh?

I don't give a flying fruit tingle if other people like kids or dislike them so long as it doesn't affect my life who cares. I do have a problem with those who are openly rude to innocent children.

This thread isn't all about you or what things you have a problem with.

[Silvawilow]

Because maybe something had happened to them recently that made them feel bad.

You could have equally said "I don't know why they are looking like that, maybe something has happened to make them mad/sad/upset. Don't worry about them, we are having a good time"

You are not making the person who heard you fluffy inside you are giving your child the option of having empathy.

Thank you :) Good point and well articulated - will take that on board for next time.

This thread isn't all about you or what things you have a problem with.

Righto - so it's okay for you to express your thoughts and personal opinion on the topic and not others!

[OMD²]

This thread is a good example of how hormones affect some mothers. Instead of being able to accept that some people don't like babies, they fly into a rage and start the insults.

But perhaps that was the reason for the thread?

lol

I am a newish Mum (well she is almost 1). I am completely in love with my daughter .. However I can understand that others may not love her or even like her! It is a fact of life. We cannot all like/love the same things otherwise life would be very boring imo. Some people just don't like children ... just like some people just don't like dogs. Let's just try not to get into each others face and get on with life.

What do you think about people who have adopted children though Greymate? Obviously they/ the Mother hasn't given birth to release hormones etc. I know a lovely lady who adopted three children and you wouldn't even know she did not birth them .. the love between them is so strong...... Maybe the 'hormones' are released anyway?

[Polgara's Shadow]

Because maybe something had happened to them recently that made them feel bad.

You could have equally said "I don't know why they are looking like that, maybe something has happened to make them mad/sad/upset. Don't worry about them, we are having a good time"

You are not making the person who heard you fluffy inside you are giving your child the option of having empathy.

Thank you :) Good point and well articulated - will take that on board for next time.

Nice one dog fan You articulated beutifully what I was having a brain fart to come up with