People's Prejudice Against Dog Breeders.

[Greylvr]

I just wanted to comment on the lower the price, many breeders do this. Also just because you can afford a high purchase price doesnt mean you are a better home and vice versa. Our rescue got some dogs from some very rich people and the dogs were in horrid condition, mis treated and abused from some of these good homes. Money does not equate to a good home and just because someone one cant afford a high price doesnt mean they wont be a great home.

[Jed]

.1 Sell or dispose of a dog to a commercial pet wholesaler or retail pet shop unless they

are accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).

Wonderful! So ANKC breeders CAN dispose of dogs to a commercial seller.....as long as the commercial seller is a PIAA member. I despair on this point

Bit slow this has been the case for about 20 years now - Its how hundreds a month go out via transpet to a pet shop in Hawaii, its why pet shop people are telling us that most of their puppies come from registered breeders , its why Dogs NSW backed PIAA against Clover Moore's bill.

I thought pups weren't going to Hawaii any longer?

[Dame Aussie]

I suspect the reason many people don't go back to the breeder is because that often means an uncomfortable conversation where the breeder may offer suggestions about adjustments they can make to keep the dog. In my experience once someone has decided they want to be rid of the dog they want to do it as expeditiously as possible.

SSM, there was an interesting paper on this. The authors conducted extensive interviews with people relinquishing their pets to an animal shelter. Your experience (my bold) is similar to what they found - however, it turns out there had been extensive procrastination (at least months) prior to suddenly wanting to be rid of the animal straight away. It was a difficult paper to read without some level of subjectivity (and fist shaking!) but it was a very interesting insight. In particular, the way people only "heard" what they wanted to hear from the shelter staff - even with serious issues such as aggression (and biting the owner!) they convinced themselves that the shelter would find a home for the dog.

Yes, when I worked in a shelter we would inform them of the assessment process, usually twice to make sure they understood. They would still come back and say we didn't tell them what could happen.

[Greylvr]

I suspect the reason many people don't go back to the breeder is because that often means an uncomfortable conversation where the breeder may offer suggestions about adjustments they can make to keep the dog. In my experience once someone has decided they want to be rid of the dog they want to do it as expeditiously as possible.

SSM, there was an interesting paper on this. The authors conducted extensive interviews with people relinquishing their pets to an animal shelter. Your experience (my bold) is similar to what they found - however, it turns out there had been extensive procrastination (at least months) prior to suddenly wanting to be rid of the animal straight away. It was a difficult paper to read without some level of subjectivity (and fist shaking!) but it was a very interesting insight. In particular, the way people only "heard" what they wanted to hear from the shelter staff - even with serious issues such as aggression (and biting the owner!) they convinced themselves that the shelter would find a home for the dog.

Yes, when I worked in a shelter we would inform them of the assessment process, usually twice to make sure they understood. They would still come back and say we didn't tell them what could happen.

In the US there are large signs on the front that say animals left here may be sold for research and people still leave their pets

[Jed]

But why reduce the price? Surely you want the best home not the best time at a bargain price.

Anyway that's just my opinion, everyone is going to feel differently for obvious reasons.

Because when you reduce the price, you may encourage someone who couldn't stretch for the extra couple of hundred. More advantageous for the dog to have his new home while he is still young and is not the ONLY puppy at the breeders/

Of course, they may not have reduced the price at all, they may have just said they did.

[Florise]

A Reg breeder should know better then to buy into the 'puppy for christmas' jig, but that's just my opinion.

You are misreading the ad. It does not say anything about buying a puppy for Christmas. Unless you have spoken to this breeder and know the details, why would you change the ad and put words in their mouth and then identify them on a public forum? Why look for the bad when there may not be any?

[Steve]

I've been reading this thread with interest and it seems to be a common worry for breeders to have dogs return. It shocks me to think it happens so often its a concern for so many, is there a common reason they are returned? Also are the breeders taking dogs back because they want to or have to?

Clearly a breeder going through tough times as Steve mentioned would have no choice but to say no but couldn't they recommend a reputable breed rescue if absolutely necessary?

Surely where a pup is healthy and well bred and the new owners are vetted and educated to make sure they understand the breed it would be pretty uncommon for them to bounce back? If breeders were keeping in contact every now and then to assess how things are going wouldn't they be able to pick up potential issues before they got to the point of the owner not wanting the dog any more?

Do most breeders supply information to new owners on training and raising a healthy well adjusted dog to avoid this situation or hope the average person will do all the right things? If they do, maybe it would be helpful to add information on potential unwanted dog behaviour and the basics on rectifying it. Maybe even recommended behaviourists in the area (assuming puppy buyers live closeish)so they realise they have other avenues if teenage pup starts showing unwanted behaviour. This is a bit random, but maybe even a $100 rebate on puppy if new owners show documentation they've attended dog training so at least you know basics have been taught which should make for a happier long term situation.

In some cases pups are worth many thousands of dollars, it seems a simple thing to do to head off potential issues especially when a lot of info can be simply photocopied for each new owner.

I wouldn't say it was a common worry until such time that it happens because most of us wouldn't let the dog go if we thought there was a chance it wouldn't work out etc and it doesn' happen so often - 5 times in 40 years and usually no many wouldnt recommend a rescue if they could avoid it as the risk factor of being beaten up over it and being accused of being unethical and not caring about their dogs is hovering.

Its my experience that it doesnt stop some now and then deciding they don't want the dog no matter how much help, education, advice or counselling you do. All of us provide massive amounts of paperwork and advice and when someone makes up their mind the dog is going it usually goes and if they feel guilty they usually try to avoid the breeder.

Let me be clear about this Im not saying breeders necessarily can or should do any more in this regard than they do I'm saying the expectation and the punishment and attacks on them from animal welfare groups and animal rights,their peers and some of the public has made breeders think they need to take back dogs to protect their reputation and image if it happens when they shouldn't.

Im saying someone can be completely ethical if they dont take back dogs .its rare for people to ask if a breeder will take back a dog when they are looking to buy a puppy and if someone did ask me this they would have to explain a lot before they would take home my puppy and probably wouldnt get one - its the expectation and pressure from within the dog world and the desire to be seen to be doing the right thing even when they cant that creates a problem and may lead to a breeder taking in both their own and other rescue dogs of their breed when the best isnt being done by the dogs.

[Guest donatella]

But why reduce the price? Surely you want the best home not the best time at a bargain price.

Anyway that's just my opinion, everyone is going to feel differently for obvious reasons.

Because when you reduce the price, you may encourage someone who couldn't stretch for the extra couple of hundred. More advantageous for the dog to have his new home while he is still young and is not the ONLY puppy at the breeders/

Of course, they may not have reduced the price at all, they may have just said they did.

I actually dont mind the reducing of the puppy at all, what I don't like is tie words WAS and NOW used like theyre a packet of ham on a woolies shelf.

[Steve]

But why reduce the price? Surely you want the best home not the best time at a bargain price.

Anyway that's just my opinion, everyone is going to feel differently for obvious reasons.

Because when you reduce the price, you may encourage someone who couldn't stretch for the extra couple of hundred. More advantageous for the dog to have his new home while he is still young and is not the ONLY puppy at the breeders/

Of course, they may not have reduced the price at all, they may have just said they did.

I actually dont mind the reducing of the puppy at all, what I don't like is tie words WAS and NOW used like theyre a packet of ham on a woolies shelf.

But they arent a packet of ham on a woolies shelf or any other shelf the breeder is still in control of the ale and simply worded it to see if they could get a bit more interest. It doesn't mean the pup will go home for any price if it isn't a good home for it

Do you have something personal against this breeder? Why does it need to be so hard and everything so scrutinized and criticized to be able to find a new home for a puppy?

its the same thing isnt it - you want to put pressure on someone to keep puppies when it isnt the best thing for the puppy and or the breeder rather than be seen to be reducing the price ,when clearly the breeder has decided for what ever reason its best if it goes home now .Cant we just trust that the breeder knows what is best and leave it up to them?

Edited December 5, 2012 by Steve

[Guest donatella]

I've actually never heard of the breeder until I saw their ad. If you need to reduce the price of your pup because you aren't getting enough interest (if this is the reason) should you really be breeding?

[Dame Aussie]

Sometimes you can get a much bigger litter than you were expecting, for example, my Aussie was in a litter of 12, not really the normal amount! If there are a couple of puppies left at say 12-14 weeks, I see nothing wrong with reducing the price.

[Guest donatella]

Sometimes you can get a much bigger litter than you were expecting, for example, my Aussie was in a litter of 12, not really the normal amount! If there are a couple of puppies left at say 12-14 weeks, I see nothing wrong with reducing the price.

Depends what breed you're talking some don't/rarely have large litters.

Also it's been said before that buyers often expect a cheaper price for an older dog but why? It's had more training and work put into it, they aren't worth any less then an 8 week old puppy. I have no problem with a price reduction done tactfully ie not WAS and NOW.

But thats just my personal view.

[Steve]

I've actually never heard of the breeder until I saw their ad. If you need to reduce the price of your pup because you aren't getting enough interest (if this is the reason) should you really be breeding?

Why should you not be breeding if you need to reduce the price of a puppy to have it in its new home when its ready to go home?

Believe it or not sometimes puppies are sold and then at the last minute someone may change their mind, sometimes they all want girls and you get boys and vice versa .Sometimes you have dozens of people on a waiting list and when you go back to them they have all found a puppy somewhere. Geez sometimes the economy is slow and people don't have as much money to spend.

Sometimes the breeder is too worried about advertising in many other places in case someone decides its unethical for them to do that too.

[Dame Aussie]

Sometimes you can get a much bigger litter than you were expecting, for example, my Aussie was in a litter of 12, not really the normal amount! If there are a couple of puppies left at say 12-14 weeks, I see nothing wrong with reducing the price.

Depends what breed you're talking some don't/rarely have large litters.

Also it's been said before that buyers often expect a cheaper price for an older dog but why? It's had more training and work put into it, they aren't worth any less then an 8 week old puppy. I have no problem with a price reduction done tactfully ie not WAS and NOW.

But thats just my personal view.

Yeah of course, I meant with Aussies :)

[JulesP]

I've actually never heard of the breeder until I saw their ad. If you need to reduce the price of your pup because you aren't getting enough interest (if this is the reason) should you really be breeding?

The buyer might have backed out. I had that happen at week 8. Very upsetting. Luckily puppy sold straight away when I re-advertised so I didn't end up trying to sell an older pup. Second buyer was great. Pup was a surprise pressie . They called me when the dog died of old age to see if I was still breeding as they loved her so much.

[Steve]

Sometimes you can get a much bigger litter than you were expecting, for example, my Aussie was in a litter of 12, not really the normal amount! If there are a couple of puppies left at say 12-14 weeks, I see nothing wrong with reducing the price.

Depends what breed you're talking some don't/rarely have large litters.

Also it's been said before that buyers often expect a cheaper price for an older dog but why? It's had more training and work put into it, they aren't worth any less then an 8 week old puppy. I have no problem with a price reduction done tactfully ie not WAS and NOW.

But thats just my personal view.

Supply and demand puppies sell quicker and easier than older dogs in some breeds and if the breeder needs them to be in new homes in a time frame that best suits them and the pup reducing them gets them sold .

[Steve]

You see when we get bogged into this stuff all the other stuff that really does count is not even mentioned.

[Crisovar]

Sometimes you can get a much bigger litter than you were expecting, for example, my Aussie was in a litter of 12, not really the normal amount! If there are a couple of puppies left at say 12-14 weeks, I see nothing wrong with reducing the price.

Depends what breed you're talking some don't/rarely have large litters.

Also it's been said before that buyers often expect a cheaper price for an older dog but why? It's had more training and work put into it, they aren't worth any less then an 8 week old puppy. I have no problem with a price reduction done tactfully ie not WAS and NOW.

But thats just my personal view.

For heavens sake there could be any number of reasons why, if the Breeder screens the buyers who gives a toss. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill, or are very bored.

[corvus]

I suspect the reason many people don't go back to the breeder is because that often means an uncomfortable conversation where the breeder may offer suggestions about adjustments they can make to keep the dog. In my experience once someone has decided they want to be rid of the dog they want to do it as expeditiously as possible.

SSM, there was an interesting paper on this. The authors conducted extensive interviews with people relinquishing their pets to an animal shelter. Your experience (my bold) is similar to what they found - however, it turns out there had been extensive procrastination (at least months) prior to suddenly wanting to be rid of the animal straight away. It was a difficult paper to read without some level of subjectivity (and fist shaking!) but it was a very interesting insight. In particular, the way people only "heard" what they wanted to hear from the shelter staff - even with serious issues such as aggression (and biting the owner!) they convinced themselves that the shelter would find a home for the dog.

Doesn't surprise me at all. That's cognitive dissonance and bias for you. I don't condemn these people. I doubt they made the decision lightly. It's just tragic that they felt they had to make it at all.

[Guest donatella]

Sometimes you can get a much bigger litter than you were expecting, for example, my Aussie was in a litter of 12, not really the normal amount! If there are a couple of puppies left at say 12-14 weeks, I see nothing wrong with reducing the price.

Depends what breed you're talking some don't/rarely have large litters.

Also it's been said before that buyers often expect a cheaper price for an older dog but why? It's had more training and work put into it, they aren't worth any less then an 8 week old puppy. I have no problem with a price reduction done tactfully ie not WAS and NOW.

But thats just my personal view.

For heavens sake there could be any number of reasons why, if the Breeder screens the buyers who gives a toss. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill, or are very bored.

I'm not the one getting upset here just giving an opinion and having a discussion. Cool your jets.