Socialising New Pup

[dididog]

Hi there, I have a beautiful Great Dane x Mastiff pup (I know not a purebred but this forum is probably the best place to get answers from). I've had her for a little over a week now and she is in the grand scheme of things a dream to own; 95% success rate going outside to toilet, sleeps through the night, doesn't chew up the house and has picked everything up really quickly! In saying that though as she is a big pup (already 10kg+) and will be an even bigger dog I'm really concerned about socialising her adequately. I got her from a rescue group where she was fostered in a fairly busy home with cats and chickens and also visited other dogs occasionally. She is wonderful around strangers and I have had at least one person a day visit her but it is really the dog to dog socialisation I am worried about as the earliest puppy school I've been able to get her into is 2 weeks away and I only know one other person with a pup her age. I feel like if I wait till puppy school she would've missed some crucial dog to dog socialisation time.

I've started taking her for short walks as she has so much energy but am very wary about her meeting other dogs because even though it was over a week since her second vaccination I'm still anxious about her catching something and also because most dogs in our area aren't very nice/well controlled. I had to pick her up yesterday because this dirty looking little thing came tearing out of her front yard barking at us aggressively while its owner watched passively from her porch. Lucky my pup didn't really notice the dog chasing us so me picking her up didn't assert the idea to her that it was a bad experience I had to save her from. What should I do? Is it okay for her to mix with other adult dogs that are vaccinated that I know are nice and well behaved as many of my friends dogs would be suitable. I am just worried about her picking something up a these dogs do go to dog parks/are allowed to sniff grass etc etc. Obviously she is always at risk to exposure but I don't want to increase that risk. My vet wasn't very helpful, kind of rushed through our appointment so I think I might see a different one as he seemed to think I should keep her confined till her 16 week jab and seemed very concerned about even letting her play with another pup that has been vaccinated but confined from the outside world. Anyway sorry for rambling, any suggestions or advice about the tricky balance of socialising her before fully vaccinated would be much appreciated! I have the advantage that she is very indifferent to dogs that we have encountered, she kind of looks at them and then just keeps going even if they are carrying on like little monsters which puts me in a much better than situation than if she was cowering in fear or responding aggressively.

[raineth]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I also have a Dane x mastiff from rescue. We got him as an adult and he is just a Devine soul.

In regards to socialisation, my preference is to socialise with appropriate adult dogs. By 'appropriate' I mean vaccinated, as well as socially appropriate dogs. As a rule of thumb, choose adult dogs that display the behaviour that you hope your girl to display when she's an adult.

I would actually be very, very wary of taking her to puppy school. If the puppy school is run well, it can be very good. But if it is filled with lots of uncontrolled play and crazy puppies then it will do more harm than good. It may teach her to throw her weight around, and be a real rough nut... And this is the last thing you want as she may be around 60 kgs as an adult, and it will be a nightmare for you if she has learnt to be rough and crazy around other dogs.

Because she will be so big, your main priority will be to teach her how to ignore dogs (most important!) and how to play gently.

Ideally I would choose a training school that focuses on training mostly and also includes some controlled interactions between dogs at times.

In terms of vaccination, you do have to be careful. You have to balance pup's need for socialisation with minimising the risk of parvovirus. I would keep her away from areas where lots of dogs congregate (parks etc). Only socialise with known vaccinated dogs. With my Dane puppy we carried him around many places. God almighty it was exhausting as he was huge, but it meant he was socialised, in a relatively safe way.

Don't forget that socialisation isn't just interacting with other people and dogs... It is also learning to be handled, have her nails clipped, be brushed, get wet, Learning about vacuum cleaners and brooms... All that kind of stuff :)

[dididog]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I also have a Dane x mastiff from rescue. We got him as an adult and he is just a Devine soul.

In regards to socialisation, my preference is to socialise with appropriate adult dogs. By 'appropriate' I mean vaccinated, as well as socially appropriate dogs. As a rule of thumb, choose adult dogs that display the behaviour that you hope your girl to display when she's an adult.

I would actually be very, very wary of taking her to puppy school. If the puppy school is run well, it can be very good. But if it is filled with lots of uncontrolled play and crazy puppies then it will do more harm than good. It may teach her to throw her weight around, and be a real rough nut... And this is the last thing you want as she may be around 60 kgs as an adult, and it will be a nightmare for you if she has learnt to be rough and crazy around other dogs.

Because she will be so big, your main priority will be to teach her how to ignore dogs (most important!) and how to play gently.

Ideally I would choose a training school that focuses on training mostly and also includes some controlled interactions between dogs at times.

In terms of vaccination, you do have to be careful. You have to balance pup's need for socialisation with minimising the risk of parvovirus. I would keep her away from areas where lots of dogs congregate (parks etc). Only socialise with known vaccinated dogs. With my Dane puppy we carried him around many places. God almighty it was exhausting as he was huge, but it meant he was socialised, in a relatively safe way.

Don't forget that socialisation isn't just interacting with other people and dogs... It is also learning to be handled, have her nails clipped, be brushed, get wet, Learning about vacuum cleaners and brooms... All that kind of stuff :)

Well to be honest her dad is a Dane/Boxer/Bull Terrier mix and the Mum a Lab/Mastiff/Irish Terrier/Dachshund mix so I just simplify and say Dane x Mastiff because I think she's inherited the traits of those two. I have checked out this puppy school before and the class sizes are 5 and for the most part based on training as well as correcting typical puppy behaviours (mouthing, separation etc.) with the pups playing a bit at the end. I wouldn't take her to a free for fall sort of affair because she is used to playing with her litter mates who were all bigger than her and she has absolutely no idea how big she is. Her walks are just around the block no sniffing the grass and that sort of stuff, I will start properly sussing out my friends dogs and see how they interact, I have not allowed her to socialise with any dogs on our walk for both the health factor and also that I want her first experiences with strange dogs to be positive and useful, not traumatising! I think I might start her off with my friends puppy who is smaller than her as its just the two of them I can monitor their playing and make sure she knows how much is too much before we take her to puppy school and it is harder to keep her in line. I have no idea how you carried around a Dane pup! My arms nearly fell off carrying her a few hundred metres to the vet haha.

Thanks a lot for your advice I only have one other friend with a big dog (Irish wolfhound mix) but she got him at 7 months so kind of couldn't relate with me so it's nice to hear from another large dog owner :)

[raineth]

Yeah it can be hard to find a wide variety of appropriate adult dogs. But I think that's ok actually. Better for her to have a few very good interactions, than dozens of not-so-good interactions.

If you are confident with the puppy school then go for it :)

I completely agree with not meeting unknown dogs on walks, especially at this age.

Don't forget that as an adult she won't be interacting with most dogs she sees, so ignoring other dogs is one of the most important skills she can learn. Training clubs can be great for this also. She can be around other dogs while learning to be a well behaved girl. Just like puppy schools though, they require you to do your homework, you don't want to go to a dodgy one :)

Yes you never really know what exactly are in these mixed breed dogs. Our boy was registered as a Dane x mastiff when he arrived at the pound, and it's probably our best guess, but you never really know - just the nature of it with a non pedigree dog :)

[Dogsfevr]

I agree learning to ignore others dog is very important skill to teach.

The problem we see with puppy school puppies is they believe its there right to play with any dog they see because that is what is trained & encouraged .Then as they get bigger owners are suddenly trying to retrain there dogs because it becomes to much when out & about . infact all our pups are taught that it isn't a right to interact with dogs unless we say so & learning to be calm around other dogs is very important.

Our guys are showdogs & we don't go crazy with socialization with other dogs BUT all are very social & enjoy playing but also enjoy going out without it being a requirement & like you we have big dogs that become a powerful package in adulthood .

Being social doesn't mean they have to play ,being social is they can happily walk past a dog without any drama's.

All my large pups are also taught they must lay down to greet small dogs & to be as gentle as possible but i am also realistic there a 40 kg & that there form of gentle is still strong

[dididog]

I probably should have worded what Id like to achieve socially a bit better. I know she.won't be able to play with other dogs for the most part, learning to ignore is definitely what I want out of my dog, there's no way Id feel comfortable walking a dog that big and it want to go greet every dog we meet. At the.moment she ignores dogs apart from glancing in their direction she keeps going and I suppose I shouldve asked instead how do i reinforce this behaviour. Just reward for every dog ignored? I think puppy school might be useful as its encouraging her to listed to me whilst around other dogs and I can always skip play time afterwards if I feel it will only serve as a negative experience. Thanks for your advice!

[*kirty*]

Google 'Look At That' - it teaches dogs to check in with you instead of focusing on other dogs etcz

[persephone]

this may be of help :)

CLICK HERE

also ..THIS has been mentioned on D O L quite a bit :)

[dididog]

this may be of help :)

CLICK HERE

also ..THIS has been mentioned on D O L quite a bit :)

Thanks for those links they were quite useful, the dilemma I have though is that all of my friends with even quite well-behaved dogs is they don't understand much about dogs. One of my friends who lives near by has a very well behaved dog that is calm and ignores other dogs on walks but when I asked if I could join them on a walk one day so I could give her a good experience around another dog while still focusing on me he said to just take her to the dog park. When I tried to explain that was probably the worst thing I could do to her since she is so inexperienced and impressionable he just looked at me like I was being over the top. None of the dogs on my street are friendly/are atrocious on walks so I am a bit lost as to what I should do :/

[raineth]

Oh Terri S, I really feel your frustration! Can you just tell him you want to go for a walk with him and his dog as a way for you to spend time together as friends now that you both have dogs?

Oh and yes, rewarding her every time she ignores another dog is a good idea. Certainly don't ever get nearly at her for being interested in another dog (not that I really get the impression you'd do that) :)

If you sign up to a training school it can be a good opportunity for her to get used to being around other dogs, and maybe at the end of class meeting some other dogs.

[dididog]

Oh Terri S, I really feel your frustration! Can you just tell him you want to go for a walk with him and his dog as a way for you to spend time together as friends now that you both have dogs?

Oh and yes, rewarding her every time she ignores another dog is a good idea. Certainly don't ever get nearly at her for being interested in another dog (not that I really get the impression you'd do that) :)

If you sign up to a training school it can be a good opportunity for her to get used to being around other dogs, and maybe at the end of class meeting some other dogs.

Unfortunately he is one of those people I am friends with due to circumstance not because I really enjoy his company as he can be very stubborn and arrogant (hence why he doesn't want to help out). I do really like his Mum though so maybe I can try to ask her. I can look around a bit more for other dogs and in the mean time encourage her to look back at me in times of distraction. Also any advice on play biting? She was very mouthy when we first got her and she has definitely reduced since then but when she's in a playful mood she tries to bite hands and clothing. I try redirecting her by saying AH UH then give her a toy and praise her for playing with the toy which normally works if I can fully commit to playing with her but other times when she wants to play and I have to do something else, if I just give her a toy to bite she gets bored quickly and starts biting people again. She gets plenty of bones, toys and kongs to chew on so I don't think it so much of a teething issue as it is she thinks that's how to play with people. I've tried what is commonly suggested with the redirecting, ending play and ignoring her if she bites hard and praising her for playing nicely but she still does it too much for my liking. Any suggestions?

[raineth]

With some pups you might need to show them you really mean business when it comes to biting. I would increase the 'Ah Ah' to something more loud and growly. Make sure that you don't pull your hands or limbs away as it will seem like play to her. With a very mouthy pup I had, I had to do a very loud and growly "ah ah" and make a fast movement toward him (A bit similar to how another dog would tell a puppy off for being naughty). I then only had to do that a few times and he got the picture.

Some people find with very obstinate and mouthy pups that you may need to be even more forceful than that.

[dididog]

With some pups you might need to show them you really mean business when it comes to biting. I would increase the 'Ah Ah' to something more loud and growly. Make sure that you don't pull your hands or limbs away as it will seem like play to her. With a very mouthy pup I had, I had to do a very loud and growly "ah ah" and make a fast movement toward him (A bit similar to how another dog would tell a puppy off for being naughty). I then only had to do that a few times and he got the picture.

Some people find with very obstinate and mouthy pups that you may need to be even more forceful than that.

I have tried being a bit louder with little success but I will keep on at it and get more forceful if need be. I think it's largely due to the inconsistency in my household; mum and I are quite forceful and tolerate very little nonsense whilst my dad and brother offer very passive 'No Bitey' sort of talk whilst still patting and playing with her. I'm finding the hardest thing about training her is my family never listening to me which is extremely frustrating!!

[Pepper21]

I have tried being a bit louder with little success but I will keep on at it and get more forceful if need be. I think it's largely due to the inconsistency in my household; mum and I are quite forceful and tolerate very little nonsense whilst my dad and brother offer very passive 'No Bitey' sort of talk whilst still patting and playing with her. I'm finding the hardest thing about training her is my family never listening to me which is extremely frustrating!!

My god. Welcome to my world. My family were so inconsistent with my dog that I ended up training him in a different language so they didn't screw everything up! 'Come' has inadvertently being trained to mean 'go chase lizards'.

Consistency is one of the most important things when training a dog so you really need to get onto your families non-compliance. If they won't listen to you then perhaps get your puppy trainer to drop them a hint.... a heavy hint. Sometimes when biting has become rewarding in itself, I choose to punish a pup instead of redirecting it or ending the game. I know that's a bit taboo, especially with pups, but I want any dog (especially the big guys) to understand that biting is not only non-reinforcing, but an unpleasant experience.

When I adopted my Mastiff (avatar) he had a very bad play bite problem. When a dog weighs +50kg and was leaving bruises when only mildly excited during play, you know you have a problem! I chose to smack him in the nose the second her laid teeth on me. I did this twice (the first time was actually unintentional, but it stopped him) and he has never done it again. He's suffered no loss of confidence, no bite strength on the tug (not that he really had much) and will still willingly play with me at the drop of a hat.

And about the socialisation thing, have you tried contacting a private dog trainer? Some have dogs that are suitable to have around puppies (if they don't, ask them if they do know someone -even a client - with nice dogs), and they'll be well trained and socialised too. Meeting up once a week for a social session with some obedience mixed in can work wonders - and if there are any red flags in your pups play style the trainer should pick up on it pretty quickly. I'm not too keen on socialising puppies with other puppies, they get into mischief and learn bad habits and manners.

Just my 2 cents, good luck :)

[Dogsfevr]

Training for distraction can be done anywhere to help do to listen .

When i train the showdogs to free stand as pups its done during training whilst we are playing & there mind is distracted & when i ask for them to work they do so .

Sitting on the front lawn & training offers distractions ,You can really do alot more than people think is this area .

Your mum can play an active role in distraction training whether using a squeaky toy,walking around the dog whilst in a sit ,acting like a goose,eating ,So many simple things can be done now to teach your dog about listening .

Rewarding the right behaviour is the key so you need to decide what reward means alot to your dog .

If you have an obedience club in your area maybe head down & see what they offer in training & take the whole family amazing how seeing someone else struggle with a dog hits home

[dididog]

I have tried being a bit louder with little success but I will keep on at it and get more forceful if need be. I think it's largely due to the inconsistency in my household; mum and I are quite forceful and tolerate very little nonsense whilst my dad and brother offer very passive 'No Bitey' sort of talk whilst still patting and playing with her. I'm finding the hardest thing about training her is my family never listening to me which is extremely frustrating!!

My god. Welcome to my world. My family were so inconsistent with my dog that I ended up training him in a different language so they didn't screw everything up! 'Come' has inadvertently being trained to mean 'go chase lizards'.

Consistency is one of the most important things when training a dog so you really need to get onto your families non-compliance. If they won't listen to you then perhaps get your puppy trainer to drop them a hint.... a heavy hint. Sometimes when biting has become rewarding in itself, I choose to punish a pup instead of redirecting it or ending the game. I know that's a bit taboo, especially with pups, but I want any dog (especially the big guys) to understand that biting is not only non-reinforcing, but an unpleasant experience.

When I adopted my Mastiff (avatar) he had a very bad play bite problem. When a dog weighs +50kg and was leaving bruises when only mildly excited during play, you know you have a problem! I chose to smack him in the nose the second her laid teeth on me. I did this twice (the first time was actually unintentional, but it stopped him) and he has never done it again. He's suffered no loss of confidence, no bite strength on the tug (not that he really had much) and will still willingly play with me at the drop of a hat.

And about the socialisation thing, have you tried contacting a private dog trainer? Some have dogs that are suitable to have around puppies (if they don't, ask them if they do know someone -even a client - with nice dogs), and they'll be well trained and socialised too. Meeting up once a week for a social session with some obedience mixed in can work wonders - and if there are any red flags in your pups play style the trainer should pick up on it pretty quickly. I'm not too keen on socialising puppies with other puppies, they get into mischief and learn bad habits and manners.

Just my 2 cents, good luck :)

Thanks for your advice, I have tapped her nose once or twice when very frustrated and while this has made her let go she continues the biting again When we are playing with toys she is very good I can stop the game and dangle the toy right infront of her mouth and say 'wait' and then 'take it' and she's super compliant but it's almost like she knows that biting people isn't acceptable play!!! The rescue I got her from have offered behavioral assistance if need be during our 4 week trial period so I'm starting to think I may consult them as this problem will only get worst. I've known people with a Boxer and the someone else with a Newfie that never corrected rough play biting as pups and you would always have to keep your hands well away unless they claimed them as a chew toys. I think my Dad wants to get on board with what I ask but just has very poor dog sense and struggles to read her body language and he has a very gentle disposition whereas my brother just wants to play rough with her all the time. In fact all my brother does is pat or play with her and because of that every time he walks in to a room she goes berserk!!!! No use trying to get across to him, he's rarely here and thinks I'm being strict and get the whole "She's not just your dog" treatment which irritates me because she is mine and when I move out in the next few years I'm the one that will have to put up with any bad behaviors she inherits.

[dididog]

Training for distraction can be done anywhere to help do to listen .

When i train the showdogs to free stand as pups its done during training whilst we are playing & there mind is distracted & when i ask for them to work they do so .

Sitting on the front lawn & training offers distractions ,You can really do alot more than people think is this area .

Your mum can play an active role in distraction training whether using a squeaky toy,walking around the dog whilst in a sit ,acting like a goose,eating ,So many simple things can be done now to teach your dog about listening .

Rewarding the right behaviour is the key so you need to decide what reward means alot to your dog .

If you have an obedience club in your area maybe head down & see what they offer in training & take the whole family amazing how seeing someone else struggle with a dog hits home

Thanks for some of those ideas, I think starting distraction training around the house might be a better idea as while out and about there is a bit too much going on and even if I can get her to sit while on a walk she often does it while looking at something other than me so I think I probably need to real back distraction levels. I think possibly the key thing I have done wrong with this puppy is taken her good behavior for granted and rarely offer a food treat unless its trick training or on walks. She's pretty food motivated so maybe I will really have to start treating her for every good behavior even though she does many of these anyway without me constantly reinforcing it. Now starting to think having a such a well behaved pup has lulled me into a false sense of security and actually created problems.....

[Dogsfevr]

I don't think you have created problems but as they age they get braver & will try things that are simply natural to them using there mouths to touch,feel & smell is part of there sensations of learning i actually don't discourage it BUT they now what is an acceptable limit .

I like to think dogs can also be rewarded by voice after all thats the one tool you always have but sometimes just making it more fun helps.

Reward can be food,ball a toy something that just gives them a sense of really pleasing you but in the end that voice is the magical tool on offer .

You can still practice out & thats when using a treat can help with distractions & you being more interesting .

You could drive to the local shop & sit on one of the seats in the right weather & simply sit there & reward the good behaviour .

During distractions you can still teach tricks high fives & the likes things that go back to it being all about the dog .

Everyone will have a different opinion this has worked for my big dogs who go to shows,royal & the likes .

I just think people often think its all about going out & forget you can do such at home without making it hard work .

You can always by a bum bag & when you feel like making it into a training session put it on & just do things in normal daily activities .