Steve Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) sorry double post Edited January 14, 2014 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 The form for a prefix application has been updated to include this info but the registrar regulations do not say that in order to apply for a prefix you must own a main register dog. If they are now saying it is compulsory - best they update their regs. I know people who have owned Dogs NSW prefixes for at least 10 years who breed a breed which is not recognised and have never owned a main register dog. Bet they are glad they already have approved prefixes. 11.2 Effective from 1 July 2014:- (11/13) An application for registration of a prefix may be submitted to the Secretary, Dogs NSW, at any time after the applicant has achieved a period of twelve months continuous membership and consideration of any such application and granting of a Prefix shall be subjected to the following prerequisite requirements:- (a) the application must be on such duly completed application form and be accompanied by such fee as the Board of Directors may, from time to time, require and will enrol the applicant in the online Dogs NSW Members Education Prefix Program. (b) the applicant passing a written examination in the said Prefix Program which will only be made available to the applicant at the discretion of Dogs NSW between six and twelve months after enrolment. © inspection of the applicant’s premises by an Inspector authorised by the Board of Directors to ensure that they meet the standards required by the Regulations. Such inspection will not be carried out until such time as the Applicant has achieved a pass in the Prefix Program examination. (d) be subject to the approval of the Australian National Kennel Council Ltd, whose decision shall be final and binding on all members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Bet they are glad they already have approved prefixes. Certainly wishing I'd applied a few years ago instead of waiting until I felt I was getting closer to actually using it. Atleast now I can get my prefix, set up my webpage, etc and be able to show what we are doing with our dogs on there and be able to use that same name when we do get to the point of breeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Exactly Mr.Mister LOL I get what you are saying about 'serving an apprenticeship' haredown but given the requirements to pass an exam and pay a decent chunk of change to get your prefix I would have though that would serve as part of any apprenticeship too. ] nope, any one can part with cash and pass an open book exam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Wow, that makes it really hard for people. You may end up with people having to find a bitch that is of substandard quality potentially (because that's all someone would let you have on main/you end up going to a breeder that you wouldn't really choose but they will let you have a bitch on main) or you possibly end up trying to get a prefix with another person because they will only do co-owns (and I can see that being a nightmare!). That really puts new people in a very tricky situation and also puts those who have been breeding for a while in a tricky situation if they want to co-own but not share a prefix. It doesn't feel like this is productive to keep people (or entice people) in to the world of pedigree dogs, there will be a whole heap of people that will find this too hard and end up going the BYB route which is a real shame. Makes me glad I'm in Vic at the moment! (note - I haven't read the whole thread just the first bit and the last bit so I may have missed some info!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Wow, that makes it really hard for people. You may end up with people having to find a bitch that is of substandard quality potentially (because that's all someone would let you have on main/you end up going to a breeder that you wouldn't really choose but they will let you have a bitch on main) or you possibly end up trying to get a prefix with another person because they will only do co-owns (and I can see that being a nightmare!). That really puts new people in a very tricky situation and also puts those who have been breeding for a while in a tricky situation if they want to co-own but not share a prefix. It doesn't feel like this is productive to keep people (or entice people) in to the world of pedigree dogs, there will be a whole heap of people that will find this too hard and end up going the BYB route which is a real shame. Makes me glad I'm in Vic at the moment! (note - I haven't read the whole thread just the first bit and the last bit so I may have missed some info!) most people don't get into breeding until after they have been showing for a while. So not so much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 My plans are more towards the working side of my breed, my son is keen to get in to showing but I have other plans for my dogs which are bred to standard truly fit for purpose dogs. Part of the reason I wanted to be able to chronicle our work on our own webpage and maybe a blog so that if we do decide down the track we wish to move in to breeding, our kennel name will be known and will hopefully speak for itself even though we may not have been particularly active in the show scene. Probably not such an issue if you are working with something like a herding breed but a large proportion of the dogs in my breed in Aus are bred for the show scene and are still great as working animals because it's a fit for purpose standard but their breeders aren't usually involved in that side of things so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Wow, that makes it really hard for people. You may end up with people having to find a bitch that is of substandard quality potentially (because that's all someone would let you have on main/you end up going to a breeder that you wouldn't really choose but they will let you have a bitch on main) or you possibly end up trying to get a prefix with another person because they will only do co-owns (and I can see that being a nightmare!). That really puts new people in a very tricky situation and also puts those who have been breeding for a while in a tricky situation if they want to co-own but not share a prefix. It doesn't feel like this is productive to keep people (or entice people) in to the world of pedigree dogs, there will be a whole heap of people that will find this too hard and end up going the BYB route which is a real shame. Makes me glad I'm in Vic at the moment! (note - I haven't read the whole thread just the first bit and the last bit so I may have missed some info!) most people don't get into breeding until after they have been showing for a while. So not so much of a problem. I dont know about that would be interesting to see some figures - there are a hell of a lot of people who breed but dont show too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) I noticed that it seemed to be very much a case of "Your only a good breeder if you showed for a long time first", any other kind of entry to the world of breeding seems very much frowned upon on the basis that you couldn't possibly learn about what makes up a good animal in any other way. Edited January 15, 2014 by kelpiecuddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Wow, that makes it really hard for people. You may end up with people having to find a bitch that is of substandard quality potentially (because that's all someone would let you have on main/you end up going to a breeder that you wouldn't really choose but they will let you have a bitch on main) or you possibly end up trying to get a prefix with another person because they will only do co-owns (and I can see that being a nightmare!). That really puts new people in a very tricky situation and also puts those who have been breeding for a while in a tricky situation if they want to co-own but not share a prefix. It doesn't feel like this is productive to keep people (or entice people) in to the world of pedigree dogs, there will be a whole heap of people that will find this too hard and end up going the BYB route which is a real shame. Makes me glad I'm in Vic at the moment! (note - I haven't read the whole thread just the first bit and the last bit so I may have missed some info!) most people don't get into breeding until after they have been showing for a while. So not so much of a problem. I dont know about that would be interesting to see some figures - there are a hell of a lot of people who breed but dont show too. yes I know there is, but from what I have seen a lot did show at the beginning, didn't like it, and went on to other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I noticed that it seemed to be very much a case of "Your only a good breeder if you showed for a long time first", any other kind of entry to the world of breeding seems very much frowned upon on the basis that you couldn't possibly learn about what makes up a good animal in any other way. I only showed for 2 years before breeding my first litter but had close to 30 years of dog ownership and competing in different fields with my dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Maybe it's different in your breed Rebanne, high numbers of animals and plenty of well established breeders who breed for purposes other than showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I noticed that it seemed to be very much a case of "Your only a good breeder if you showed for a long time first", any other kind of entry to the world of breeding seems very much frowned upon on the basis that you couldn't possibly learn about what makes up a good animal in any other way. Not at all but just because your dog works doesn't mean it fits the breed standard either . Many working animals have been so altered to suit what they want its hard to even recognize them as a breed ,certainly the case in my breed . If you can do the dual purpose thing wonderful & maintain the breed true to standard even better . AS for the prefix thing i don't see what the big issue is about the prefix. I mean who applies for a prefix before getting there dog anyway ??In the 30 plus years of being in the dog world its not a topic that has come up or been an issue . Given you wouldn't dream of mating a bitch till around 2 yrs applying for a prefix is simple . The reality is what the OP wants they may not get anyway prefix wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Thankfully ours is a fit for purpose standard, I aspire to have fit for purpose dogs which are bred to standard and may go to trialling homes, pet homes and maybe even a few to show homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Maybe it's different in your breed Rebanne, high numbers of animals and plenty of well established breeders who breed for purposes other than showing. Wrong, show bred greyhounds are a rare breed and track racing is not the original purpose of the greyhound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Fair enough, I don't claim to be up with show greys(although I do realise that track racing wasn't their original purpose) Edited January 15, 2014 by kelpiecuddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Part of the reason I wanted to be able to chronicle our work on our own webpage and maybe a blog so that if we do decide down the track we wish to move in to breeding, our kennel name will be known and will hopefully speak for itself even though we may not have been particularly active in the show scene. You could still do this without a prefix - you could use your dogs name, your own names, or a made up blog/website name to do all of the above, documenting your achievements etc. Your prefix wouldn't be attached to any thing you did with your current dog/s anyway so people would still need to look you up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) I noticed that it seemed to be very much a case of "Your only a good breeder if you showed for a long time first", any other kind of entry to the world of breeding seems very much frowned upon on the basis that you couldn't possibly learn about what makes up a good animal in any other way. It is probably an issue of your breed and the lack of a performance community. In my breed it is the same here, but not everywhere. I know of breeders that breed pretty much only for perfomance events (coursing) overseas, and great breeders that breed for both show and coursing and are successful at both. Australia just doesn't have that diversity of perspective for many breeds. Edited January 15, 2014 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Yes Diva, that is basically what I have found. It's why we will most likely start out training and making a name for ourselves as trainers and handlers and then move upwards from there and hope that we can prove ourselves in that scene. As I said my son wants to show and I've had some generous offers of assistance from showers to assist him to learn to handle their dogs but it's not so much a personal aspiration of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Yes Diva, that is basically what I have found. It's why we will most likely start out training and making a name for ourselves as trainers and handlers and then move upwards from there and hope that we can prove ourselves in that scene. As I said my son wants to show and I've had some generous offers of assistance from showers to assist him to learn to handle their dogs but it's not so much a personal aspiration of mine. why don't you show your current Basset? You just need to put her on the Neuter register. Then you get known by other Basset people. ( if she is suitable of course ) ETA or train her in the field you want to enter. I think you said she doesn't have the drive you are after but if you can get her to successfully do what you aim for that would be a feather in your cap. Edited January 15, 2014 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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