Some People Should Not Own Dogs

[Salukifan]

For arguments sake I think acceptable offleash behaviour for everyone is what is dictated by your council. Mine says all dogs must be under effective control, mustnt menace a dog or human and advises to ask owners for permission to interact with their dog. Obviously whether people follow this or not is another story but if you wanted a distinct description of acceptable there is one.

Council regulations also specify that dogs are to be registered (about 50% are), vaccinated (a similar proportion are), walked on leash outside of approved areas and picked up after. Those last two I see flaunted most weeks.

You can wave Council regs at dog owners all you like but the reality is that many dog owners don't give a toss. At the dog park, its majority rule and the majority appear to believe that anything goes. I'd not rely on others obeying council regs for my dog's safety.

[ChewieTAG]

talking about the same topic.

I have to rant a little bit as I am so mad right now...

I found a cute medium dog wandering around nearby and wanting to cross the big road with cars zooming pass fast.. So we called him over and he was wagging his tail running happily over to us. I reckon he has a woman owner as he seems more attentive towards me then hubby. Healthy, well groomed. Not too dirty. So it seems he has just gotten out.

So, checked the tags, found council tag number. No name or phone number. I gave a call and got them to call the owner. Got a call from owner 30 minutes later and we exchange our locations, also asking if she can come and pick up her dog (it would be 5 minutes drive). I couldn't as just so happened our car is sent for servicing today. Then she explained that it might take her quite awhile to get there as she is on wheelchair.

Alright, I took pity of her and said I can bring the dog over to her place. We have to wait till we get the car back.

Then we did, and we sent him over... 2 ladies came out and got back their doggy.

I felt cheated somehow. One of them lied to me that she is on the wheel chair just to avoid walking all the way to claim back her dog? I might heard wrongly but am pretty sure the whole sentence end with a wheelchair.

I would have rush through the door to pick my own dog up if this happened to me!

I bet, it happened few times already and maybe they are not too worried as their dog might just come back home to them!

Edited January 31, 2014 by chewak

[Queen Maeby]

She might have meant those stupid mobile scooter things (I don't know what they're called).

But yeah, I would be p*ssed off as well.

Edited January 31, 2014 by puggedforlife

[dididog]

For arguments sake I think acceptable offleash behaviour for everyone is what is dictated by your council. Mine says all dogs must be under effective control, mustnt menace a dog or human and advises to ask owners for permission to interact with their dog. Obviously whether people follow this or not is another story but if you wanted a distinct description of acceptable there is one.

Council regulations also specify that dogs are to be registered (about 50% are), vaccinated (a similar proportion are), walked on leash outside of approved areas and picked up after. Those last two I see flaunted most weeks.

You can wave Council regs at dog owners all you like but the reality is that many dog owners don't give a toss. At the dog park, its majority rule and the majority appear to believe that anything goes. I'd not rely on others obeying council regs for my dog's safety.

I was just pointing out that there is a definition of 'acceptable' but yes I agree most people won't take notice of it.

I think people blur the lines a bit with 'dog park' and off lead areas. The former being fenced off squares off grass where dogs can run around and play with who ever they like and the others being expansive areas within a more stimulating environment (water,trees, birds, bushes, lots of scents). These areas tend to attract different sorts of dog owners. I find that people going to large, unfenced areas, especially in high density residential areas are going primarily to exercise their dog, not to play with other dogs and will generally have good recall as its not an enclosed space (although the incident that happened yesterday shows that not everyone actually cares about their dog's safety). At a dog park you're much more likely to find the type of dog owner you describe HW that are likely to be slack in monitoring their dog as they know they can't go anywhere and more likley to have incidents with other dogs as they are in a small enclosed space and encouraged to play.

While obviously these are generalisations and you can always run into an irresponsible dog owner I don't think all public off lead areas should be demonised as for some people like myself they are an important tool when used sensibly. If you don't want to rely on others obeying council regulations for your dog's safety you may as well not leave the house because you can just as easily have an incident walking your dog on the street.

[Little Gifts]

I'm with you Terri. Dogs running loose at off leash dog parks still need to be actively supervised and just because they want to run around like crazy doesn't mean that their behaviour is left unchecked. What your dogs get up to still needs to be within an acceptable range of who else is in the park (people and dogs). You can't just let your dog do whatever the hell it wants to in a public place.

Acceptable to whom? A casual walk past my local dog park suggests that dogs tear arsing around with no heed to their owners is perfectly acceptable to the majority of park occupants.

Forget council's version of acceptable and think of what most normal people would consider as acceptable and sensible. That doesn't include an unmonitored dog jumping up on a child, rummaging in your bag, peeing on your bag, madly humping your dog or you, human crotch sniffing, pooping all over the place, chewing on the offleash furniture (wooden chairs), trying to rush out the gate, rushing at other dogs trying to enter the park, rushing at dogs who might be wearing 'in training' or other warning gear, leaving the park without a leash or human. If an owner isn't close by to see their dog then all this is possible. Basic and acceptable behaviour designed to keep everyone safe and enjoying their outing. Even picking up your own dog poo is the most basic common courtesy but if you aren't looking then you wont know your dog has even done one. And if you aren't even close by no-one else will know to point it out to you.

[Salukifan]

I'm with you Terri. Dogs running loose at off leash dog parks still need to be actively supervised and just because they want to run around like crazy doesn't mean that their behaviour is left unchecked. What your dogs get up to still needs to be within an acceptable range of who else is in the park (people and dogs). You can't just let your dog do whatever the hell it wants to in a public place.

Acceptable to whom? A casual walk past my local dog park suggests that dogs tear arsing around with no heed to their owners is perfectly acceptable to the majority of park occupants.

Forget council's version of acceptable and think of what most normal people would consider as acceptable and sensible. That doesn't include an unmonitored dog jumping up on a child, rummaging in your bag, peeing on your bag, madly humping your dog or you, human crotch sniffing, pooping all over the place, chewing on the offleash furniture (wooden chairs), trying to rush out the gate, rushing at other dogs trying to enter the park, rushing at dogs who might be wearing 'in training' or other warning gear, leaving the park without a leash or human. If an owner isn't close by to see their dog then all this is possible. Basic and acceptable behaviour designed to keep everyone safe and enjoying their outing. Even picking up your own dog poo is the most basic common courtesy but if you aren't looking then you wont know your dog has even done one. And if you aren't even close by no-one else will know to point it out to you.

And now we're in the realm of personal opinion as to what is "normal' and "sensible" when it comes to canine behaviour. Your average "normal" person knows bugger all about canine behaviour. It pays to keep that in mind.

In my opinion, small children shouldnt' be in offlead areas without very close supervision, anything that's put within a dog's reach is fair game for inspection and marking, offlead areas are not training areas, no dog requiring warning gear or wearing a harness should BE in an offlead area and no fixed furniture should be in one either.The ideal that offleash areas can be safely utilised by all people and all dogs is simply that - an ideal.

I've come to terms with it. I use them when no strange dogs are present and IMO that's what's required to keep my dogs safe. Tut tutting over what others do won't change a thing. I think you have to accept that you'll come across the odd idiot and that unless you've got a dog that can deal with a fair range of canine behaviours from dogs of all sizes, you stay out when others are using.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Little Gifts]

There is so much wrong with that response it pains me to reply.

You don't have to know a thing about canine behaviour to think a dog peeing on your bag is unacceptable. Most 'normal' people would be horrified if they discovered their dog did that.

I said children and not small children. Some dogs on their hind legs can be longer than a child and some can also be stronger than a child. No child, regardless of age should be around strange off leash dogs without close supervision. Dogs are often family pets which means children do walk and play with them both inside and outside the home, including in off leash parks. Off lead areas ARE training areas for some dogs. How do you think some rescue dogs are socialised? And why shouldn't a supervised blind or timid dog be allowed to wear warning gear in an off leash area? Why is that unacceptable for those poor dogs who also like exercise and who might be a work in progress or have a disability? Why should it be their fault if a poorly behaved dog and even poorer behaved human can't respect that?

All off lead areas I have been to in Qld and parts of NSW contain furniture/equipment and sometimes even dog agility gear. In every single park I have been to there is something made from timber - seats, weaving poles, etc. I regularly see people sitting in under cover areas with their dogs sitting or standing on the table. I'd be interested to know if they are allowed to do that at home too but I suspect not.

I have never tut-tutted in my life but I do swear a lot. And if you will notice I said that a dog's behaviour should be within the acceptable range of whoever else is in the park. This means other people and other dogs. If the park is empty then fantastic but if a family is already there with their new puppy and your dog has its crazy face on then letting it off it's leash as soon as you are in the gate is just asking for trouble. Is it so hard to keep it on the leash and walk it to a more remote area to play and let off some steam?

Why must we keep letting people get away with poor attitudes and behaviours? So many people here on DOL report their dog being attacked by some other idiot's dog that is running loose without being actively monitored. Why must one or two cretins ruin it for everyone else? Don't we have the right to say that's not good enough? I don't think this is idealistic at all but some basic common sense. I don't go around humping other people or getting into strangers faces or pissing on people's stuff so I don't accept that people think it is ok for their dog's to do it either. And if they walked out to their letterbox and stood in another dog's poo then they would be angry so they know it is wrong to let their dog do the same in public and not clean up behind it. They choose to be ignorant or lazy or whatever and I just think instead of moaning about it we should be assertive and say these things to owners when we see it happening. Create the environment we want and be good role models. At the very least I say this for the dogs who are the ones that suffer the most when things go wrong.

[Salukifan]

There is so much wrong with that response it pains me to reply.

Glad you managed to work through the pain. :)

You don't have to know a thing about canine behaviour to think a dog peeing on your bag is unacceptable. Most 'normal' people would be horrified if they discovered their dog did that.

Au contraire. I know enough about canine behaviour not to put my bag anywhere near where offflead dogs can visit it . Marking is normal canine behaviour. Why tempt fate?

I said children and not small children. Some dogs on their hind legs can be longer than a child and some can also be stronger than a child. No child, regardless of age should be around strange off leash dogs without close supervision. Dogs are often family pets which means children do walk and play with them both inside and outside the home, including in off leash parks.

My point applies to all children. Even grown adults can be sent flying by dogs Children aren't good at situating behaviours. They assume all dogs are like theirs. That's a danger too

Off lead areas ARE training areas for some dogs. How do you think some rescue dogs are socialised? And why shouldn't a supervised blind or timid dog be allowed to wear warning gear in an off leash area? Why is that unacceptable for those poor dogs who also like exercise and who might be a work in progress or have a disability? Why should it be their fault if a poorly behaved dog and even poorer behaved human can't respect that?

Hopefully the more knowledgable rescues practice controlled socialsation techniques and don't use the public's dogs as guinea pigs to see how the fosters react at dog parks. Hopefully.

No, its not the fault of blind or timid dogs if other dogs can't read the warning gear . But dogs don't read. It's unsafe for such dogs to be offlead around dogs running, playing etc and to expect every other dog park user to cater for such a dog is a pipe dream . They'll be knocked over or overwhelmed and anyone who takes such a dog to an offlead area when its populated is a damn fool in my opinion. Ditto for baby puppies and geriatric dogs.

All off lead areas I have been to in Qld and parts of NSW contain furniture/equipment and sometimes even dog agility gear. In every single park I have been to there is something made from timber - seats, weaving poles, etc. I regularly see people sitting in under cover areas with their dogs sitting or standing on the table. I'd be interested to know if they are allowed to do that at home too but I suspect not.

Most dog parks have been put together by people who know bugger all about dogs. I know this because I served on the ACT consultative group that advised the builders of the local parks - and they'd built plenty elsewhere. Fixed equipment is a crash hazard and chairs encourage owners to sit when they should be walking and closer to where their dogs are. Don't even get me started on the dangers posed by fixed agility equipment and its use by owners who have no idea about what they're doing.

Even division of parks into big dog and small dog areas is something that has tended to happen at the request of owners and often after hard lessons have been learned.

As I said, its all about perspective. Talk to knowledgeable people about territorial pack behaviour, about hyper arousal, about triggering dogs into pack or prey drive etc and you'll start to realise why so many of us save visits to dog areas for when they are vacant.

Create the environment we want and be good role models. At the very least I say this for the dogs who are the ones that suffer the most when things go wrong.

And place my dogs at risk or get my head punched in by someone who wants the dogs to sort it out? No thanks. And I won't whine about it because no matter how much I'd like it to be different it ain't going to happen. I've adjusted and so do most others.

My first post in this thread was that people really shouldn't be surprised by idiotic or ignorant behaviour by dog park users. Goes with the territory. Accept it or opt out. I've chosen the latter.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Simply Grand]

But LG, I think that's the point HW is making, already you and she have different ideas on what is "acceptable" in an off leash dog area, and you are both dog savvy. Everyone else using the area will have their own ideas too and many of them are likely to have less knowledge and have given less thought to dog behaviour and what others might be comfortable with than those of us here.

So defining acceptable and sensible to everyone's satisfaction is pretty impossible. Coupled with that is the fact that many people don't follow rules that are in place anyway, through ignorance, laziness, arrogance, whatever. Absolutely we should say something when someone endangers other people or dogs, and it's great if people point it out when people have broken one of the rules that are in place but trying to get people to change what they do based on one's own opinion of what is right is an uphill battle.

And I think the other, more important point is that we risk out own dogs if we go around expecting that everyone else will do the right thing. However much they shouldn't, there are plenty of people out there who will continue to do stupid, rude, dangerous, inconsiderate things

(Btw LG I know you wouldn't go around risking your dogs, or anyone else's!)

Edited January 31, 2014 by Simply Grand

[Salukifan]

My Whippets can run at 50kph or thereabouts and have strong prey drive. Common sense alone would suggest that running these dogs with frail, old or unknown small dogs is risky. And yet, people do.

When asked to wait 5 minutes until we'd left the paddock at my dog club a while back, what did the owner of the toy breed do? Yep, yelled "it'll be right" and opened the gate to let her dog in. Thank GOD for recall training. End of free running for my dogs, leads on and all so her little dog could stand at her feet for a while.

Then there was the person who, confronted with a paddock full of about a dozen dogs (half entire males) and again asked to wait until we'd cleared it, opened the gate and let her bitch in... then got all upset when the boys mobbed her.

I won't talk about the aggression incidents or the vet bills. Or my broken ankle

Then there was the time I had to leap the fence and rescue a screaming small dog being mugged by larger ones while its owner froze and no one else did a damned thing

I've tried the cooperative approach and it didn't work. Now I just stay clear.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Simply Grand]

I've had that too, Riley and Saxon were in the small section of the park by themselves while I was in the other part (just separated by chainlink fence) with Quinn who,was playing with the only other dog there, a puppy. Riley can be mean to puppies which is why he was separated, then another couple arrived with their small dog and a young puppy. I was on my way over to get Sax and Riley as the new arrivals went to walk into the section where they were (either not noticing or not caring that there was no person in with them). I called out "hang on, I'll just get them", girl looks at me then keeps going towards the gate, I called out again for her to hang on, still didn't stop, I eventually said quite firmly "just wait while I get them out".

It was for her puppy's sake, not my dogs, although I don't want Riley rehearsing bad behaviour, but obviously some people are not only unaware themselves but they don't listen to people actually telling them things to keep their dogs safe!

I've also yelled across the park to someone to call their large Malamute off a small Border Collie, the Mal was standing right over the BC while she lay flat on her back, she trid a couple of times to get up and slink away but the Mal followed and she immediately rolled over again. I watched the BC's owner watch on without saying anything and the Mal's owner obliviously chat to someone else before I decided I couldn't let it go anymore and called out (very politely :) ).

People often ask on here why I still go to dog parks and I've said before, like HW I am aware of the risk however I choose to accept them for the benefits, my dogs are fairly robust and confident with other dogs and I've learnt what to look out for in other dogs and owners. Most importantly my dogs have more value in me and treats than anything else so they tend to stick close and have great recall so I can keep them away from trouble.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Simply Grand

[Salukifan]

I dream of a world in which there are private dog parks where you can book time and have space to yourself.

Or maybe I should just use a padlock.

[dididog]

My Whippets can run at 50kph or thereabouts and have strong prey drive. Common sense alone would suggest that running these dogs with frail, old or unknown small dogs is risky. And yet, people do.

When asked to wait 5 minutes until we'd left the paddock at my dog club a while back, what did the owner of the toy breed do? Yep, yelled "it'll be right" and opened the gate to let her dog in. Thank GOD for recall training. End of free running for my dogs, leads on and all so her little dog could stand at her feet for a while.

Then there was the person who, confronted with a paddock full of about a dozen dogs (half entire males) and again asked to wait until we'd cleared it, opened the gate and let her bitch in... then got all upset when the boys mobbed her.

I won't talk about the aggression incidents or the vet bills. Or my broken ankle

Then there was the time I had to leap the fence and rescue a screaming small dog being mugged by larger ones while its owner froze and no one else did a damned thing

I've tried the cooperative approach and it didn't work. Now I just stay clear.

And I don't blame you after putting up with all that. Anyway think this thread has gotten a liiiitle carried away. The point of my original post was that some people astound me with how irresponsible they can be with their own dogs safety when it is their role to protect them.

[Akayla]

No harm in coming in here and letting off steam. People can be idiots! Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, chasing trains.

HDW - I have to say Canberra dog parks aren't the greatest to start with. Let alone the people you can meet in them. Best dog park I have used was one owned by a group of people who basically rented and fenced private property. So you did book a time and no one would enter. Great arrangement. Unfortunately they moved overseas so no more mooching in their dog park for

I have owned GSDs for a long time and I have to say they attract idiot owners of other dogs. Its just better to avoid places like that. Mind you lately seems the thing to have dogs running around in clearly marked on lead areas too. I have to get them out sometimes but I dread to inevitable bad experience.

[oakway]

The only thing I find surprising about such stories is that people are surprised by what happens in busy public offleash areas!

There's a reason why many knowledgable dog owners avoid them like the plague.

+1

[Queen Maeby]

The only thing I find surprising about such stories is that people are surprised by what happens in busy public offleash areas!

There's a reason why many knowledgable dog owners avoid them like the plague.

Yep.

[Amax-1]

The only thing I find surprising about such stories is that people are surprised by what happens in busy public offleash areas!

There's a reason why many knowledgable dog owners avoid them like the plague.

In all honesty, I am a nervous wreck at a dog park or off leash area envisaging what can happen and trying to assess each dog and owner and is not a place that remotely presents a relaxing atmosphere for me at all. We have a few illegally off leash dogs at times at our local park if I see any walking my dogs on leash, I turn up the street before the park to avoid them and for some reason the one's off leash are the one's the owners can least control as a general rule of thumb.

[Salukifan]

The only thing I find surprising about such stories is that people are surprised by what happens in busy public offleash areas!

There's a reason why many knowledgable dog owners avoid them like the plague.

In all honesty, I am a nervous wreck at a dog park or off leash area envisaging what can happen and trying to assess each dog and owner and is not a place that remotely presents a relaxing atmosphere for me at all. We have a few illegally off leash dogs at times at our local park if I see any walking my dogs on leash, I turn up the street before the park to avoid them and for some reason the one's off leash are the one's the owners can least control as a general rule of thumb.

So Which kind of dog park person are you Amax?

[Amax-1]

The only thing I find surprising about such stories is that people are surprised by what happens in busy public offleash areas!

There's a reason why many knowledgable dog owners avoid them like the plague.

In all honesty, I am a nervous wreck at a dog park or off leash area envisaging what can happen and trying to assess each dog and owner and is not a place that remotely presents a relaxing atmosphere for me at all. We have a few illegally off leash dogs at times at our local park if I see any walking my dogs on leash, I turn up the street before the park to avoid them and for some reason the one's off leash are the one's the owners can least control as a general rule of thumb.

So Which kind of dog park person are you Amax?

One who keeps well away from them

[JulesP]

This forum has made me very tense about off lead dog stuff. I long for the days when I just turned up at a park, let my dog off and simply enjoyed it. Talking more about off lead spaces than the fenced parks.

I've actually never had a bad incident or even witnessed a bad incident at such places. You might get the odd idiot but most people are pretty polite.

Have just spent 3 days at off lead beaches and had no bad issues at all. I can only assume that the people on the beach were all dedicated owners as everyone had bothered to get to the beach at the designated time.