HappyCamper Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 The MDBA has a Rescue COP for their rescue members... just saying... T. Do you have a link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybun Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I am all in favour of rules and regulations in all walks of life.....if well set up,policed and relevant, and if it achieves the purpose for which these regulations were intentioned.As a policemans daughter I have an inherited desire to follow the rules. However,having worked for government departments I have seen a lot of bureacratic red tape, just for the sake of it, and those policing the regulations having little empathy for those affected and sometimes no real understanding of the purpose for the regulations.It was just a job to them. It may sound good on paper, but the devil would be in the detail. Who would regulate it,who would draw up the regulations, what would be the penalties for non compliance etc etc There are in all avenues of life, people who operate outside the mainstream or the law and even if rescue were regulated this would continue there as well. Some members of the public would do the research and look for regulation compliant rescues, and any logos,but a lot would not. Whilst education would be needed,the public are slow to absorb it, across any number of issues, regulated rescues would be the same. How hard has it been to get across about no pet shop puchases of live animals, no backyard breeders etc. The public are continually taken in by scams run by con artists and send millions to these crooks both here and overseas each year,so even when it comes to spending thousands of dollars the public dont do their homework or listen to warnings. A lot of Rescues already have to satisfy a good number of regulations as it is, and report to different government departments.But I bet a lot dont bother, and they just continue to function without the heavy hand of the law coming down upon them to force them to comply or close down. If regulations did come in, the well run rescues would comply and do the right thing, but those that are not would still continue to operate until something happens, close down and then start up again under another name etc etc Happens in every facet of life. This would all take a lot of money to bring in, and all layers of government are crying poor so I cant see it being well run or well set up, if it did come in. If it did,I would hope the end result would be more animals saved and rehomed properly. But I just have my doubts these would be achieved by government intervention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) The MDBA has a Rescue COP for their rescue members... just saying... T. Do you have a link :) http://www.mdba.net.au/ Being a member isn't the solution to everything but Julie is always there to help and as a rescue member, I find it gives people a little more confidence. If we did anything wrong by an adopter they could seek resolution via MDBA as a 3rd party. There isn't another org who does that as far as I know. Narga were trying to set up as some kind of national body but I don't want to know. Edited April 15, 2014 by Powerlegs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 The MDBA has a Rescue COP for their rescue members... just saying... T. Do you have a link :) http://www.mdba.net.au/ Being a member isn't the solution to everything but Julie is always there to help and as a rescue member, I find it gives people a little more confidence. If we did anything wrong by an adopter they could seek resolution via MDBA as a 3rd party. There isn't another org who does that as far as I know. Narga were trying to set up as some kind of national body but I don't want to know. Thanks I will look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 I will temperament test each animal and exercise good judgment to assure its suitability for placement. Is this up to each rescue to decide or is there a recommended temp test that needs to be done? The rest is great and can live by them just wondering about this bit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I will temperament test each animal and exercise good judgment to assure its suitability for placement. Is this up to each rescue to decide or is there a recommended temp test that needs to be done? The rest is great and can live by them just wondering about this bit here. Hmm, not sure! They do have courses available but I haven't seen if there is temp test stuff. I'll email Julie, she can pop in and explain further. Honesty about temperament and/or special needs is a must but then again we all have different skills and knowledge. There's certain breeds or traits I have zero rehoming experience with (for example aussie working breeds) so wouldn't just take a rough guess, rather I would seek advice from those with expertise to help me assess a suitable home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 I will temperament test each animal and exercise good judgment to assure its suitability for placement. Is this up to each rescue to decide or is there a recommended temp test that needs to be done? The rest is great and can live by them just wondering about this bit here. Hmm, not sure! They do have courses available but I haven't seen if there is temp test stuff. I'll email Julie, she can pop in and explain further. Honesty about temperament and/or special needs is a must but then again we all have different skills and knowledge. There's certain breeds or traits I have zero rehoming experience with (for example aussie working breeds) so wouldn't just take a rough guess, rather I would seek advice from those with expertise to help me assess a suitable home. Yup I agree with you there it would be great to have a group dedicated to helping each other with breed traits and advice, I am sure there already is one but if not would be great where rescue people can ask honest advice and get some good suggestions. I generally ask a breed specific rescue to take a dog if it needs rescue and I dont know about them for instance if a silky came to me I would ask you if you could take it seems better that way for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I will temperament test each animal and exercise good judgment to assure its suitability for placement. Is this up to each rescue to decide or is there a recommended temp test that needs to be done? The rest is great and can live by them just wondering about this bit here. Hmm, not sure! They do have courses available but I haven't seen if there is temp test stuff. I'll email Julie, she can pop in and explain further. Honesty about temperament and/or special needs is a must but then again we all have different skills and knowledge. There's certain breeds or traits I have zero rehoming experience with (for example aussie working breeds) so wouldn't just take a rough guess, rather I would seek advice from those with expertise to help me assess a suitable home. Yup I agree with you there it would be great to have a group dedicated to helping each other with breed traits and advice, I am sure there already is one but if not would be great where rescue people can ask honest advice and get some good suggestions. I generally ask a breed specific rescue to take a dog if it needs rescue and I dont know about them for instance if a silky came to me I would ask you if you could take it seems better that way for the dogs. The MDBA doesn't dictate which temp test to use or how to do so though this is covered in some of our courses. How you temp test as well as many other things is one of the things we want to know when you apply for membership. If you need help or advice on the best ways of doing this then that information is freely available to our members . If when you apply we think you need to tighten up in some areas we make suggestions of what you need to address and after you have done that come back and re apply. Once you are in we trust that you will do what is required to participate in the highest of ethical standards from the day you agree to the codes and agree to be held accountable. There are several methods we use to monitor this including offering free smart dog owner membership to everyone you place a dog with. This enables us to build relationships with these people so that if something goes wrong and there is a complaint that they know they can come to us for investigation before the crap hits the net and things get messy so we can help sort it out . Sometimes the owner has made unfair accusations and has un realistic expectations so we can help them to see things they havent considered other times the rescue has mucked it up. If the rescue is at fault depending on what that is we offer warnings and counselling - so far in 3 years we have cancelled the membership of 2 rescue groups for serious breaches. We place a high value on the rescue membership and wont tolerate anything that will impact on our other members or rescue in general. Basic human nature says that some people will bend the rules or change things when they think no one is watching and they are not being held accountable by a third party - we provide the support for the rescue and the owner and the promotion with lots of member benefits but we also provide the voluntary third party accountability. We don't believe any of this is possible by way of introduction of laws because dodgy stays dodgey while ever they think they can get away with it and just gets smarter because no new laws ever come with allowances for anyone to police them effectively and no laws will ever be as strict as our code and criteria for membership. We also dont believe that it works as well if people have no choice but to become members in order to be able to operate or do other things - such as the breeder's system in Victoria where membership of Dogs Vic allows breeders to have special exemptions because there is a greater risk that people will join without adhering to the codes to get what they need to stay under the radar with the laws. Hope this answered your questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphra Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 There is another group who call themselves the Australian Foster Carers Network who are attempting to do something similar to NARGA. They have a Facebook page. I don't know anything about the relationship between the two groups, if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I am all in favour of rules and regulations in all walks of life.....if well set up,policed and relevant, and if it achieves the purpose for which these regulations were intentioned.As a policemans daughter I have an inherited desire to follow the rules. However,having worked for government departments I have seen a lot of bureacratic red tape, just for the sake of it, and those policing the regulations having little empathy for those affected and sometimes no real understanding of the purpose for the regulations.It was just a job to them. It may sound good on paper, but the devil would be in the detail. Who would regulate it,who would draw up the regulations, what would be the penalties for non compliance etc etc There are in all avenues of life, people who operate outside the mainstream or the law and even if rescue were regulated this would continue there as well. Some members of the public would do the research and look for regulation compliant rescues, and any logos,but a lot would not. Whilst education would be needed,the public are slow to absorb it, across any number of issues, regulated rescues would be the same. How hard has it been to get across about no pet shop puchases of live animals, no backyard breeders etc. The public are continually taken in by scams run by con artists and send millions to these crooks both here and overseas each year,so even when it comes to spending thousands of dollars the public dont do their homework or listen to warnings. A lot of Rescues already have to satisfy a good number of regulations as it is, and report to different government departments.But I bet a lot dont bother, and they just continue to function without the heavy hand of the law coming down upon them to force them to comply or close down. If regulations did come in, the well run rescues would comply and do the right thing, but those that are not would still continue to operate until something happens, close down and then start up again under another name etc etc Happens in every facet of life. This would all take a lot of money to bring in, and all layers of government are crying poor so I cant see it being well run or well set up, if it did come in. If it did,I would hope the end result would be more animals saved and rehomed properly. But I just have my doubts these would be achieved by government intervention I agree. I was not reffering to gov regulation, that is what I belive must be avoided at all costs and I would hate to see that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I will temperament test each animal and exercise good judgment to assure its suitability for placement. Is this up to each rescue to decide or is there a recommended temp test that needs to be done? The rest is great and can live by them just wondering about this bit here. Hmm, not sure! They do have courses available but I haven't seen if there is temp test stuff. I'll email Julie, she can pop in and explain further. Honesty about temperament and/or special needs is a must but then again we all have different skills and knowledge. There's certain breeds or traits I have zero rehoming experience with (for example aussie working breeds) so wouldn't just take a rough guess, rather I would seek advice from those with expertise to help me assess a suitable home. Yup I agree with you there it would be great to have a group dedicated to helping each other with breed traits and advice, I am sure there already is one but if not would be great where rescue people can ask honest advice and get some good suggestions. I generally ask a breed specific rescue to take a dog if it needs rescue and I dont know about them for instance if a silky came to me I would ask you if you could take it seems better that way for the dogs. The MDBA doesn't dictate which temp test to use or how to do so though this is covered in some of our courses. How you temp test as well as many other things is one of the things we want to know when you apply for membership. If you need help or advice on the best ways of doing this then that information is freely available to our members . If when you apply we think you need to tighten up in some areas we make suggestions of what you need to address and after you have done that come back and re apply. Once you are in we trust that you will do what is required to participate in the highest of ethical standards from the day you agree to the codes and agree to be held accountable. There are several methods we use to monitor this including offering free smart dog owner membership to everyone you place a dog with. This enables us to build relationships with these people so that if something goes wrong and there is a complaint that they know they can come to us for investigation before the crap hits the net and things get messy so we can help sort it out . Sometimes the owner has made unfair accusations and has un realistic expectations so we can help them to see things they havent considered other times the rescue has mucked it up. If the rescue is at fault depending on what that is we offer warnings and counselling - so far in 3 years we have cancelled the membership of 2 rescue groups for serious breaches. We place a high value on the rescue membership and wont tolerate anything that will impact on our other members or rescue in general. Basic human nature says that some people will bend the rules or change things when they think no one is watching and they are not being held accountable by a third party - we provide the support for the rescue and the owner and the promotion with lots of member benefits but we also provide the voluntary third party accountability. We don't believe any of this is possible by way of introduction of laws because dodgy stays dodgey while ever they think they can get away with it and just gets smarter because no new laws ever come with allowances for anyone to police them effectively and no laws will ever be as strict as our code and criteria for membership. We also dont believe that it works as well if people have no choice but to become members in order to be able to operate or do other things - such as the breeder's system in Victoria where membership of Dogs Vic allows breeders to have special exemptions because there is a greater risk that people will join without adhering to the codes to get what they need to stay under the radar with the laws. Hope this answered your questions Well said Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I seem to recall lots of temperament testing when Cosmolo held a weekend workshop up here. Check out Underdog Training based in Melbourne, HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Inevitably, when enough people have been bitten and enough dogs attacked, the government will clamp down on rescue and start legislating. Unfortunately for rescue, this likely won't be carefully thought out standards of practice but instead reactionary, clunky laws that will fail to weed out the bad while making things harder for the good. This is the reality of rescues releasing dogs with high prey drive, dogs that are DA, dogs with histories of human aggression, fence jumping, and so on. This is what the "save at all costs" crowd will achieve. While the cowboys are busy stroking their own egos over how many dogs they've saved, their dogs are out there, creating a public mistrust of rescue and of rescue dogs in general. The sad and frustrating thing is that these rescues are often run by charismatic people who know how to suck in a crowd and maintain that control. What some of those people do (we won't name names but I can think of several in greyhound rescue) is to actually turn potential adopters or supporters against ethical rescue by implying ethical practice is less caring because it focuses on the bigger picture, rather than individual dogs. A dog with a f***ing prosthetic leg springs to mind (while 50+ other dogs in their care rot in their kennels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Personally I think all rescues (of any species) seeking donations from the public should be registered and regulated. Sadly it seems some see rescue either as an easy income or a way to get a hero status. Pop up facebook rescue groups calling for donations seems imo to be on the rise (some dog, but in particular equine). Ultimately after the initial glory and donations the hard work and dedication required is lacking and they disapeaer with regular rumours of RSPCA rreports etc. In these situations most of the animals would have been better off euthanased. It's pie in the sky stuff with effective regulation and I totally agree that it won't stop those breaking the laws bit it would at least give the general public a guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I agree 100% with the concept regarding regulation of rescues seeking donations. It's astounding what is going on out there! Edited May 12, 2014 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 once all the hobby breeders have been closed down thanks to the draconian legislation being forced on us, and councils refusing to renew multiple animal permits, believe me, rescues will be the very next targets on the agenda - as afterall, they are attempting to sell animals too, no matter how much it is dressed up as an adoption fee, not a sale price, and since PeTA and similar bodies do not want animals even being kept at all. Since their legislation is way under what a breeder has to comply with, and so many of these "no kill" shelters may end up with animals being kept there for many years, there certainly should be a lot tougher restrictions on them on how they are kept, socialisation and training prior to rehoming, long term care etc - surely if the rescue groups feel so strongly that the conditions they have demanded be the minimum that breeders house multiple animals under, and the minimum requirement of care and nutritional food provided, then they should have no issues at all with complying with the same - at the moment ow in Vic, breeders have over 50 pages of gov law to comply with, they have 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I agree 100% with the concept regarding regulation of rescues seeking donations. It's astounding what is going on out there! ^^this. "Donations" are paying for people's holidays and boozy lunches. It's not that hard to register and do the right thing if you really have nothing to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphra Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I wish I received enough in donations to afford boozy lunches and holidays! Can't get too legless on a couple of bags of dog food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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