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Tempus Fugit

Inquiry into animal cruelty laws in New South Wales

66 posts in this topic

tdierikx   

The Act allows for inspectors to give directions to rectify a situation rather than proceeding straight to siezure and prosecution if they "reasonably suspect" that an offence is being or is about to be committed with regards to animals in a person's care...

 

AWL seem to manage this part of the job more effectively than RSPCA...

 

T.

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This is part of the job I don't think they do well either. Lots of people don't seem to understand the difference between discipline and abuse, between meeting basic care needs and neglect or between attending to basic medical needs and it will heal on its own, but once informed, if they continue their behaviour they should be prosecuted. Once you know what is expected legally, if you knowingly break that law it is on you.

 

This formal advice practise from 'authorities' has a purpose towards avoiding future harms. Same with pet ownership education - it is needed across the country as part of prevention but doesn't exist. Maybe councils would be better positioned to offer it but given how some run their pounds that's also a problematic solution. Imagine the offer of free council registration for one year if a person attended an honest and practical Pet Ownership workshop BEFORE purchasing a pet. A lot of minds could be changed or informed and resources for responsible pet sourcing could be provided. A lot of money could be saved by council, rescue and pet owners and pets and their owners might have a chance at better lives together.

 

Surely the RSPCA has a spare mill it could put into developing that? :laugh:

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asal   

so true little gifts.

the problem is as so many have noticed is there is not money to be made teaching the people who are better targeted for income.

 

Pity the enquiry was probably not appraised of this , you so succinctly put in to words why the rspca has strayed so far from what it once was.

 

the accumulation of money is now its sole aim.

 

the seizure and sale of the 1300 cattle at Binnaway is irrefutable proof of that.

the first press release stated they seized and sold the cattle because 200 bodies were counted.....The press release neglected to mention they had been placed there after death for the past five years because they cannot be burnt due to the continuing drought.

Not satisfied with that press release, they next state they found 800 bodies.

People who know the farm and the farmers vehemently dispute this.

Photographs were taken of the cattle as they awaited sale at Dubbo and they said even the saleyard staff were astonished that they were seized on the grounds of cruelty when they were in good condition and even the poorest were described at sale as in store condition and there was stock from other vendors considered in sufficient condition for sale that weighed less.

Every farmer who saw these cattle is very concerned if they can be taken and sold there is nothing in nsw that cannot be seized and sold by them.

 

they maintained that the cattle that died in transport were due to their poor condition yet there are photographs of the stock crammed into the trucks so closely that if the farmer or any other farmer had done so would have been chargeable because they were packed too tightly to travel safely. any animal that went down had no chance of being able to get back up.

even more shocking if that were possible they separated the calves from their mothers and shot them? why?

we successfully transported over 80 head of our cattle during a drought all with newborn to weeks old calves without losing any cows or calves......such was the expertise of the carrier we engaged and loaded to his instructions.

 

Yet they killed all the calves instead?

 

apparently the rspca gave the orders for loading and the drivers permitted no influence yet their owner is going to be charged over the death of each and every one that died under their instruction.

 

 

 

I picked up a load of hay yesterday and in the paddocks beside his shed is over 40 head in exactly the same condition as the Binnaway farmers, their owner is well aware how easily he can be next.  over a third of the Binnaway cattle were in prime condition and they too were taken and sold. So good condition is not going to save them from seizure once they have "formed the opinion" everything will be seized.

 

 

there isn't a farmer in nsw not fully aware now of their chances of being next.

 

Edited by asal
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asal   

just listened to the Ray Hadley interview with Coleman.

 

they were taken now they were in good condition so they could be sold.

 

no explanation why the calves were killed though.

 

he said the 50,000 of hay would only have lasted the 1300

cattle a week then they would have began losing weight again.

 

no explanation why at least a core herd of 100 wasn't left to at least had something to rebuild from and 50,000 of hay would have gone a long way with that few numbers... like leave the cows and calves instead of killing them as they did?  he admitted the cows were in sale condition, so they were in good enough condition to raise their calves.

 

 

Edited by asal

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moosmum   
On 02/12/2019 at 11:11 AM, Little Gifts said:

This is part of the job I don't think they do well either. Lots of people don't seem to understand the difference between discipline and abuse, between meeting basic care needs and neglect or between attending to basic medical needs and it will heal on its own, but once informed, if they continue their behaviour they should be prosecuted. Once you know what is expected legally, if you knowingly break that law it is on you.

 

This formal advice practise from 'authorities' has a purpose towards avoiding future harms. Same with pet ownership education - it is needed across the country as part of prevention but doesn't exist. Maybe councils would be better positioned to offer it but given how some run their pounds that's also a problematic solution. Imagine the offer of free council registration for one year if a person attended an honest and practical Pet Ownership workshop BEFORE purchasing a pet. A lot of minds could be changed or informed and resources for responsible pet sourcing could be provided. A lot of money could be saved by council, rescue and pet owners and pets and their owners might have a chance at better lives together.

 

Surely the RSPCA has a spare mill it could put into developing that? :laugh:

Yes. Without the legal /prosecution powers they have been tasked with, that is the logical direction the organisation should have headed.

Ensuring public awareness of animals  physical and mental needs does more to improve animal welfare than laws dictating HOW those are to be met, As we see with some of the legislation thats been introduced. Legislation dictating 'How' does not inform anyone of why its expected, why those practices are an improvement, or considered improvement over what?  Bitches whelping in a family home? Legislation does not allow alternative environments or conditions that could be more beneficial, or alternative methods of meeting needs of  the animals that work better in the conditions faced by their keepers.

So reduces people and environments  able to meet those needs, or understand the purpose of the legislation being adopted.

They might  understand this is the environment you must provide before you can keep an animal, But less of  the reason behind it.(ignoring those already experienced)

 

If they don't understand the needs they should be meeting, or why meeting them is a good thing, they are more likely to make mistakes out of ignorance. And we need more legislation/restrictions on who and how to keep animals. Eroding familiarity with their needs and your responsibilities even more.

 

There should be legislation to ensure people provide for the needs of the animals in their care. I don't think How thats to be done should be part of it. It does not take into account  the conditions dealt with by individual animals or people, or how they could deal with their conditions more or as effectively than legislation allows. 

Nor does it allow for evolution of needs to be considered or developed.

 

People are more likely to do things well when they understand the purpose of doing it. The types of Legislation being pushed doesn't foster that understanding, but does hinder it.

Edited by moosmum

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That is very true Moosmum. There are so many little bits of information that will make life so much better for animals with first time owners. Many of us have learnt it accidentally or the hard way over years of pet ownership. But imagine someone sharing all this knowledge so others didn't make the same mistakes, rather than just punishing after mistakes are made? The animals would certainly be better off for it and shouldn't that really be what we are aiming for anyway?

 

I've also had Storybook Farm on my mind of late - a rescue that focused on animals with serious disabilities. I remember it being reported that the owner said some of the mess the RSPCA found from the raid was simply because special needs animals make more mess and that their area had not yet been cleaned. Then too shouldn't it be that special needs animals need a higher level of care? Same with breeding facilities. The risk to life of the mother and newborn pups is critical during whelping. Shouldn't that require a higher standard of care and skilled staff coverage? Instead we have basic bottom lines that don't necessarily meet every animal's basic care needs.

 

If the RSPCA want to be leaders in preventative education for at least the general pet buying public then they could develop a program that could be localised and run in council areas so the information could be better targeted. But I guess it is what they see as their core business? Currently it seems to be fundraising.

 

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tdierikx   
8 hours ago, moosmum said:

Bitches whelping in a family home?

I'm tipping this was changed because inspectors can't enter your dwelling unless they have a warrant and police to serve it... they CAN enter any other building on your property however...

 

6 hours ago, Little Gifts said:

If the RSPCA want to be leaders in preventative education for at least the general pet buying public then they could develop a program that could be localised and run in council areas so the information could be better targeted. But I guess it is what they see as their core business? Currently it seems to be fundraising.

Education costs money, and doesn't get the same level of media attention as a "successful" prosecution of some poor sap...

 

T.

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*WARNING* Distressing video footage and photos in this link.

 

Unsure if this is true but it doesn't sound that far fetched to me, having seen first hand how they treat dogs who were black tagged at one of their old and largest shelters in QLD. If an animal was not going to be rehomed or needed for a court case it immediately lost value and no efforts were made to provide it comfort or care - it had no value to them. Why would they change now? Shameful if it is true.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7733227/RSPCA-admits-sends-NSW-thoroughbreds-slaughterhouses-shocking-claims-racing-cruelty.html?fbclid=IwAR3aOKU8M32EIcBBcJgKMDD49h0-xiEZrTm9ksFTJfh_FC3zaC5QDB5EG5U

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tdierikx   

" An RSPCA NSW spokesman said it was possible the animal had been in a condition which made it cruel to keep it alive and it was euthanised before being delivered to Burns Pet Foods. "

 

Considering that already dead animals are not normally transported to an abbatoir for processing, I call bullshit...

 

Think about it... non-refrigerated truck doing multiple deliveries of animals to various places (the invoice shown has more than 1 horse being transported to more than 1 destination). The carcass would be in a state of decomposition that would make it unusable for processing for any form of consumption.

 

The use of the term "euthanised" is also interesting... it brings to mind the humane method of injecting an overdose of anaesthetic to bring about swift and painless death... however, that method would deem a carcass unfit for processing for any form of consumption due to the chemicals used to kill it.

 

I know for a fact that there are companies that specialise in the removal and proper disposal of deceased stock animals under the Waste Management (EPA) laws in NSW, and they certainly don't deliver those animals to an abbatoir.

 

T.

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asal   

yes , true

 

so if it was "euthanised" with out green dream?

 

the only alternative if the body is to be processed is a bullet and its throat cut or captive bolt and throat cut?

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T and Asal - all the things I was thinking. I don't want it to be true but sadly I can see them doing it. I wonder why it hasn't been picked up out here?

Edited by Little Gifts
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asal   

just released on facebook. so sad 

 

one of the calves at the Binnaway seizure

 

"

1 hr ·6/12/2019 

Before being shot and put in a pit, this calf sat here for two days with no mum and no milk. Someone tried to take it milk and was refused.
The rspca have gone too far, this is bullshit!

 

 

ZZZZZZZ  RSPCA SEIZED CALF AT BINNAWAY.jpg          

 

                                                                        "

Edited by asal
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asal   

well, if any had any doubts the enquiry is going to have been a waste of time and emotions the latest news proves they have no fear whatever of being held accountable.

 

The seized cattle photographed on this page indicate all of rural nsw can and if they so choose will be destocked  in its entirety 

 

Words fail.. broken lives, broken minds. let alone all the needless deaths, or as they say "euthanasia"

 

if you have animals you abrogate any rights, human or animal whatsoever 

 

https://www.facebook.com/Dogs-without-borders-Australia-709019335881463/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARAInM18xadsV_FMn6U7FtNmiJ6250ieFtnSUcj2yRr2z90AO3rOJ_T3jQQBI762N_2IrhZG1HNHGplw

Edited by asal

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tdierikx   

I thought that in order to seize or destroy stock farmed herds, that a Stock Welfare Panel should be convened well in advance of such seizure or destroying...

 

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/animals-and-livestock/animal-welfare/inspections-and-enforcement  - see the Stock Welfare sections

 

T.

Edited by tdierikx

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asal   
9 hours ago, Little Gifts said:

Technically they won, cleared their names, but financially lost everything, their cattle, their properties (had to sell them to pay the legal costs, all up over four million paid out over the ten years fighting for justice) they never saw the 1.4 million, it went straight to the their legal team 

If the magistrate had ruled the rspca had to replace the cattle and the income lost over the intervening ten income less years and the true value lost instead, but that didn't happen nor did he award them cost's,

Edited by asal
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Yes not really a financial win and certainly not a win for all the animals who lost their lives but it sets a legal precedent for other cases at least because we know it has happened before like this.

 

I'd really love to hear from an RSPCA worker you know. I'm sure many of them have to be animal lovers and it can't be an easy job seeing neglect and abuse. Maybe they stay hoping to be part of creating internal change? Maybe they try to do their best in amongst all the bureacracy and bullshit? I have my own personal experiences having volunteered cleaning, feeding and interacting at one of the old shelters and also fostering for them. The longer I volunteered the more the gloss came off and I could see a very non-animal focused culture. Everything to do with animals with extra needs was just too much of an effort. Lots of bad memories and I've never understood why it was allowed to get like that and even get worse.

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tdierikx   

I find that it's a "do as we say, not as we do" attitude LG... there is no accountability, so why do they have to change?

 

Any charity that spends more of their money/resources to try to raise more money, rather than on what their core business is, is just shonky imho...

 

T.

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asal   

the rspca were awarded every penny of costs they claimed for the weeks of the Ruth Downey Inquisition............she had no conviction recorded nor was she fined even one dollar, but the magistrate awarded the rspca's application for costs...........they submitted "costs" to the tune of over $260,000, which included three barristers, flying in "experts" instead of using local "experts" etc.(dotted every i and crossed every t three times and charged for everything they could rustle up and the magistrate never queried a cent of it)...........interestingly a murder trial held in the same district court ran for less than half the same time and even though it was a murder trial the prosecution fielded one barrister something the locals found pretty interesting so much ammo (ie three barristers) for, as the retired Public prosecutor Leon Mills noted for a "crime" not serious at law, hence heard before a magistrate, not a judge and jury.

Yet the far more serious crime at law, murder.............was not considered necessary to appoint three barristers to the prosecutors side and the defendant was found guilty,  a conviction was recorded and sentence pronounced, achieved at a fraction of the cost in the same place at the same time?  

Edited by asal

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asal   

I have known for decades our politician's have increasingly moved away from representing the people who vote .

the cushy private jobs and board directorships politicians slide into after leaving yet still retain their life pensions been aware of as well.

not that there is anything the mug public has available to do or say about any of it.

but now the milk cow must be running short of funding or as pointed out in this press release, we would not now be seeing the poor relying on centerlink committing suicide or pensioners who have worked all their life contributing THEIR wages to go towards their retirement are not only been denied a living amount. in the case of the pensioner its not even an entitlement anymore. the "entitlement" has been removed they are now a burden on government.......................the money isn't there, it is now funneled straight into general funds for the government to spend as they please instead of the pension fund to generate perpetual interest earning as  the original legislation had intended and created.

 

read this and notice the parallels with the unaccountability of the rspca........ they are only extending the rspca the same as they expect for themselves

 

no wonder this is happening across the board

 

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/our-politicians-have-become-an-unaccountable-ruling-class,12985

 

equally interesting....the corruption pretty neatly spelt out. wonder how long this group is eliminated? Press raids are already reality in australia.

 

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/an-independent-australia-cannot-be-bought-by-corporations,13400

Edited by asal

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