Lablover Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I have been pondering again. Very dangerous, I already have a headache. My dogs while in the house, which in reality is always, LOL, when not at training or if I am out, my labs are allowed to do as they please. They are past the puppy chewing phase and a tired dog is normally a good dog. They jump on the couch, have free access to our garden, jump up for pats and basically I do not "require" them to do anything inside. They follow me like shadows. Bit tight sometimes in small rooms!!!. At training they perform well, but I have been wondering about the BENEFITS of every time they come up for a pat, or want a cuddle on the couch, tell me its dinner time etc, should I ask more of them in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 The trainer in me says that deprivation can be a powerful tool and too much non-contingent reinforcement not only reduces the value of what you can offer, but the dogs' motivation and can often play a part in aggression, anxiety, leadership issues and training problems. Don't ask the handler in me tho, she smooches the doggies everytime she walks passed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 What Haven said. Great answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I know that I do not pat Sascha unless she sits still still and waits for one and she has done really well, since noticing this I have started doing the same with Beau who was a bit like your labs and I have noticed a big improvement in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 What Haven said. Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hmm, I try, but I don't do it with pats and I'm always snoggin' them. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hmm, I try, but I don't do it with pats and I'm always snoggin' them.Nat Ewwww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I often wonder the same thing and i love to pat my dogs. I have taught them to put their heads flat in my lap before i will pat them. The do it all the time and it lets me be able to pat them non stop without guilt. I love playing with their velvet ears. Not sure if it counts but its what i tell myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hmm, I try, but I don't do it with pats and I'm always snoggin' them.Nat Ewwww Sick people Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hi Ll Have to confess mine are allowed to jump on the furniture and pretty much do as they please around the house but i think wehn you have a dog thast highlight is getting to work for that toy it doesn matter connor will lie there and be patted but what he really wants is to go out and trian From what youve said in the past im sure yours would be the saem yb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne_Fury Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I too have a big problem ignorning my dogs. Jake (dalmatian) follows me around the house (yes even sits outside the toilet door and knows how to open the bathroom door) but my other dog Murray could care less if I patted him and will only approach me occasionally for a scratch and a pat. He is cute, but doesn't have the whole I need attention pat me thing. I sometimes wish he did because I tell you it is hard trying to get his attention at all which of course makes training very hard... Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninaandted Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 all you good NILIFers will be able to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was okay for YOU to go to your dog to give a pat etc, but you should ask them to do something if they come to you to ask for pats/ball/food. if both our dogs are calm and being good then I try and reinforce this behaviour by giving pats and rewards. we probably aren't consistent when it comes to pats on the lounge. If one of the dogs comes up for a cuddle at night (which is the only time they do this usually), then we just enjoy the cuddle and don't ask them to do anything which is probably very naughty on our part. I was going to actually post a question about this to find out what other people asked their dogs to do for rewards when around the house. We're becoming a bit bored with "sit", "drop" and "shake" but just want something simple and quick the dogs can do to "earn" what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Yup, I reckon you're spot on. My understanding is that you can instigate patting any time, but the dog can't demand patting - if he tries to instigate petting, he has to earn the attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Lady: Do you love animals Ace?' Ace Ventura Pet detective : "if it gets cold enough...." FOFL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 we just enjoy the cuddle and don't ask them to do anything which is probably very naughty on our part IMO it's only naughty if it creates or is a part of an overall problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 IMO it's only naughty if it creates or is a part of an overall problem. Sidoney - Spot on, IMO. And, if a problem exists:- the more severe the problem, the more clear and exaggerated NILIF (and other "leadership" measures) should be, me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 IMO it's only naughty if it creates or is a part of an overall problem. Sidoney - Spot on, IMO. And, if a problem exists:- the more severe the problem, the more clear and exaggerated NILIF (and other "leadership" measures) should be, me thinks. I agree. I think my dogs are pretty well behaved and trained, but more than once they have been naughty, actually very naughty when in retrieving trials. I am just trying to look into how I can train them "that" little bit further, in the house. When I was in the States, I saw more than once absolutely drop dead trained dogs in the field, but when say going to the toilet in a group, disobeyed their trainers. The dogs knew when they could disobey and when they could not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 My dog is using the NILIF program on me..........lol I dont let them have toys (only when we train) but they often have tennis balls that get hit into the yard by my children and neighbours kids. My dog will come up to me with the ball in his mouth but rarely will he let me have it unless i swap it for something else. I think he is using NILIF on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 ...... I saw more than once absolutely drop dead trained dogs in the field, but when say going to the toilet in a group, disobeyed their trainers. The dogs knew when they could disobey and when they could not. Splitting hairs, I know, but would be a case of "learnt" rather than "knew".... ;) I have emailed the ANKC (no response yet ) suggesting they allow the equivalent of "hors concours" in their various trials (eg. obedience; agility). They allow this with horses in dressage comps. It's an opportunity to work your animal in a trial environment, but in a training capacity. You are judged, faulted, scored etc. etc. in exactly the same way as usual, but your points are not tallied with the final calculations and you don't stand to win awards, merits etc. I think these opportunities would assist many with animals who have learnt that the ring is a place where certain behaviours are not insisted upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Hi Erny In the states they run days for that purpose you cann correct and feed in the ring ita about ring time not winning we ran a couple ofthem a few years ago had a lot of good feedback but they take a bit of organiising if you want to run them on a bigger scale I find even at club members comps they get their nose ot of joint if you want to use it as a training session rather than be competeing for sashes. yb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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