If You Were Going To Get Another Dog -

[whatevah]

Knowing what you know now, including drive, precision etc, in what way would you change your methods. If you were going to train your dog for agility, obedience, flyball etc.

[helen]

I would do what I have done with Chazer, start any formal training at a later age (doesn't mean don't train them at a younger age, just do what you need to get by to begin with)

[sidoney]

Incorporate what I have learned about training in drive.

[MrsD]

Nothing really, Im happy with the way I train my dogs, I get good results, the dogs are happy & work very well, so why change it?

[haven]

Absolutely I would, I'd train using the most appropriate and succesful method for that specific dog

[Lablover]

Interesting question!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not think there is much else I can add to my current training program. But then again, if a trainer says they have nothing else to learn, I frown!!!! BIG TIME!!!!!!!.

I try to think like a dog.

And my personality is such, I love love love discussing WHY WHY WHY dogs do, what they do!!!!!!!!!

Also I am never insulted, if anyone suggests I am training an exercise/drill incorrectly. Their comments may make me take a back step, but............I will ponder them afterwards LOL.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Lablover

[MrsD]

I do not think there is much else I can add to my current training program. But then again, if a trainer says they have nothing else to learn, I frown!!!! BIG TIME!!!!!!!.

Thats probably a better term with regard to this question than "training methods" & totally agree with you LL. I use a whole variety of methods when I train my dogs, but that's my "training method" - I use whatever I think will work best. If you know your dog well, you usually have a very good chance of picking something that is appropriate & works the first time but if it doesnt work, then Im not afraid to use something different. And just because something worked for your dog, doesnt mean it will work for the next dog .

As you say, any trainer who says that their way is the only way, or thinks they know everything & they have nothing to learn, in my book has a big black mark against their name .

[whatevah]

I learnt heaps from training Josh and passed it onto Moses and he is heaps better but is a different breed of dog. Have been reading Susan Garretts shaping for success and certain things she did with her puppy. Have mainly been really happy with Moses and may train a few things a little bit earlier to create foundations. Moses is worried about getting into a plastic wading pool, so next dog will be trained to get in and out of a plastic wading pool straight away. Moses is also worried about people with a single arm, so will expose next dog to people with their arm not in the sleeve. I have learnt so much mainly from the internet.

[J...]

I would change quite a few things.... would start TOT and drive as a young pup, work on basic manners but leave more formal obedience until later, and probably start on agility basics when suitable. Would probably work on socialisation a bit more myself - PPS didn't do Darcy any harm but I look back and think maybe there was a better way to go about it. Also would introduce the "yes" at an earlier age too!

[herding_guy]

From all my dogs and every dog I've trained....I let them tell me what I need to change, alter or do differently.

I learn from every one of them.

[MrsD]

From all my dogs and every dog I've trained....I let them tell me what I need to change, alter or do differently.

I learn from every one of them.

HG :D :rofl:

[Lablover]

From all my dogs and every dog I've trained....I let them tell me what I need to change, alter or do differently.

I learn from every one of them.

Herding guy,

I do agree to a degree. I cannot help wondering though, if your training program does not change as such, especially with your own dogs who, I should imagine do not have many bad habits? Sure every dog has strengths and weaknesses, and we do learn from each but all the same, we can change behaviour, but cannot change genetics, drive and nerves etc.

I agree every dog is different but the exercises, drills and eventual concepts do not change. At least I find this, with training my labradors for retrieving trials. Hunting in comparison is easy.

[Sayreovi]

I would train more in drive, ive only sorta just started doing it with Darcy and he is coming along in leaps and bounds.

[herding_guy]

I do agree to a degree. I cannot help wondering though, if your training program does not change as such, especially with your own dogs who, I should imagine do not have many bad habits? Sure every dog has strengths and weaknesses, and we do learn from each but all the same, we can change behaviour, but cannot change genetics, drive and nerves etc.

I agree every dog is different but the exercises, drills and eventual concepts do not change. At least I find this, with training my labradors for retrieving trials. Hunting in comparison is easy.

Ha ha my dogs have lots of bad habits that's what I love about them!

Sit & name is taught the same for all my dogs for this is the first things I teach. From then on it's building up the dog, letting the dog find it's feet so to speak.

Your right the "exercises" are similar but every dog is taught a little to a lot differently. For example a "walk in" for one may be taught dry (off sheep) while another on sheep. A drop may be necessary for one dog but not for another. Recalls are taught with food for some and with toys or more sheep on another. Timing of teaching individual commands comes when the dog tells me he / her is ready.

If I could train a dog (or mark) a specific behaviour / talent to give me a more efficient worker or trialler I would. It may be a behaviour that has never been seen before and therefor not trained for before and may give me an edge. For example I taught Scout a head low which helps me keep stock calm in certain situations....it works for him but not another dog maybe because of his size, intensity. It's unconvetional but it works. This is how the herding "sport" or work develops and evolves. Nowhere in the rule book does it say I cant make my dog jump up in the air and do a back flip to make the sheep run up the race quicker...if it works do it (sure would look funny, huh).

Today I had 2 pups from the same litter both very similar in style but one is serious and ready for some pressure while the other is still just having fun. THe two will be trained very differently.

I suppose I don't have a formal training regime I just go with my gut / heart and flow with the dog ......it's more fun for me and the dog that way.

Although I must admit I have found certain methods that I have stuck with throughout just altered a little for each dog.

Do you think you can't change/alter drive levels? Some think that through early life ground work you can build drives up, but who can gauge this?

So I guess my answer to the OP question is - give me the dog and I'll tell you what I've change as I go.

Hope I've made some sense

[whatevah]

thanx for your reply's exactly what I was after. With Josh he was mainly food/ lure type trained, he wanted to be shown what to do. He also didn't have much tug drive as I tried to teach it to him when he was over 12 months old. With Moses I introduced clicker at 8 weeks, I got more of a thinking dog. I also introduced tug much earlier and got a dog that likes to tug much more, and I played the two toys game with him and got a retrieving maniac. I think you can alter drive levels with early life ground work. But they are different breeds.

Next dog I am going to do much more tug training earlier, and maybe have a stronger tug drive than retrieve. At the moment the retrieve is stronger than tug. So I am always throwing toys instead of just standing there and playing tug, I still want retrieve drive though, but would prefer stronger tug.

[sas]

For those who have said they would leave formal training until later can you please explain why? Not challenging you at all just curious.

[KitKat]

My last three dogs have all been trained differently...mostly because they have all been different to train what worked for Harm didn't work for Bronx - tho both were food motivated. Harm was a lot harder to work with and stubbon, whereas Bronx as very easy to work with and quick to learn. Sabre on the other hand has been completely different to the other two - he's not food motivated but is at least toy motivated, and he's also a lot brattier then any dog i have had. But he does love to please me, but also wants my attention all for himself...lol.

[dogdayz]

I would agree with the less formal training early on. My collie was excellent at doing the formal novice routine by 6 months but became so bored, now it became a struggle to motivate her for that kind of work. Having set all formal type work aside for the past year, and only been herding and tracking regulalry (not saying these arent discipline but they give the dog more freedom to think for itself), with just trick training or very short obedience work (literallly just a heel sit and drop while out), i do belive both dogs are now much more eager to spend their time with me and look for work now. While i like most endeavoured to do weekly dog school from 12 weeks, i belive other than socialisation it was detrimental to doing competition. think the next pup will spend the first 12 months will learn the basics of sit drop and stay but largely will have fun and build a bond with me, while i also learn that individual dog, its body language and its motivations more fully, before putting any tightness on its work.

[whatevah]

I did only obedience with Josh and he got bored, so when I got Moses just taught him everything I could think of, to teach him to think for himself and helping him to learn quicker.

[lab and poodle]

I am very happy with how my young dog is turning out. I have taught this one with positives, Mostly R+ P-) mostly clicker, but a bit of drive developement and manipulation too, but in some ways layerered her experiences which is very sound educationally. Other than the basics, I have taught her the foundations of many things including retrieve, SD, heeling etc.In many dog club structures the dogs get heeled to death and turned off at a very early age.If they get this near perfect then they go on. ( i sometimes joke that this is the way BC owners make sure gundogs don't take over the obedience world )This isn't a great way to teach handlers or dogs. By the time a few dogs get through this and get to trial, the only ones that then progress are those that have an enormous retrieve drive. Time to check the retreve end of things out is at 8 weeks when you bring him/her home. I don't do the detail stuff too often yet, keep the sessions short and sweet almost tease her a bit. I have done tracking with her, and am progressing this as she took to it like a duck to water. A real pleasure to track. Great in dog school class too, I am very proud of her. I have no intention of trialling her in obedience till she is quite a bit older.(18 months+). Here is a photo of my dog retrieving a SD article at 5 months. I must stress I am not the pushy type with dogs. I back off very quickly when I sense confusion or too much stress.