JimmyTheHuman Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 (edited) We have adopted a 12wekk old Kelpie on Friday. He had lots of doggie friends at his foster carers, he has been great with my 4yo and 5yo kids. Today on the way to the park he heard a dog barking behind a fence an woulodnt go any futher, his tail ucked under his bum breaking his neck to go back he way we came. At the park we saw another dog on a lead and he was old and grumpy, gave a bit of a growl and we stayed clear. When he started growling our Kelpie (Jax) all the hair between his shoulder raised right up an he was kinda 'lurching' towards the dog, i just called him and kept walking trying to find something more interesting to look at. About 30min later he saw a small boy play tennis with his dad and made some effort to go over for a sniff, and when the kid stood still the hair on Jax back all raised up a again. He is a bit of a timid dog normally, so i kind figured is was fear? I know fear can be dangerous, if ge gets too scared he may bite? Anyway, we are going to puppy school soon and ten obedience schol - i guess wait until he is 12 months for this? I am going to get some advice from his foster carer and the puppy school folk on the timing of obedience training - but i figured as much socialisation as possible for the time being? Appreciated any suggestions EDIT, PS: Some brags On the lead he was really pulling, so i spent 15min with him walking up the street. Whever he pulled i stopped, waiting for him to stop pulling and then let the lead go slack and staret walking again - in this 15min he now walks on the lead wkithout lurching/strangling. The carer taught to him to sit and wait for food and he still does that and waits/goes calm to be let inside. We let him sleep inside the first 1.5nights, second night he came ina dn woke us up with some sooking noises, i put him out side and he emptied both systems and climbed in his new kennel These little thing are very satisfying The one thing he does do we havent been able to get him to stop is jumping ont he couch - i think he really just wants to be up tere with us hvaing a cuddle, whats the best procedure for telling him to get down - currently he wont get off without a little bit of an encouraging push. Edited February 11, 2007 by JimmyTheHuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Jimmy its Fear alright.Take note of the Body Language you described in the first incident with the Dog growling behind the Fence.You also said,the Pup wanted to run back the way you came.Thats a flight Response. Jimmy,I would start at the start and look at is your Pup seeing you as Pack Leader.The Pup has to see you as Leader, otherwise he or she will not look to you for Guidance and Leadership.Be Careful when your Pup does show Fear that you do not reinforce the Fearful Behaviour.when a Pup or Dog is behaving in a Fearful Manner and we give attention,praise and so on we are reinforcing the Fear. When out walking your Pup and he or she shows fear,act casual,downplay,basically ignore the behaviour and keep walking.The Pup will be looking to you and if your acting nonchalant, it will be a big help. Jimmy as the Pup is only 12 Weeks,for now maybe shorter Walks in a quiter area if that is possible. tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Jimmy, put a Collar and lead on Him.When he will not get off the Couch,gently tug the Lead and call him off the Couch. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Jimmy congratulations on your puppy - where are the photos. Basically everything Tony said... :D We have a kelpie cross and she does does the heckles all the time, sometimes even when it is speaking to another dog across the street, but it is a warning sign.. Just rember to lead by example and be firm, fair and consistent and CONTROLLED. We want some pics please, there are alot of kelpie tragics on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyTheHuman Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Pics here in post #279 of the Kelpie thread. http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?...425&st=270# I will follow that advice. What is it a warning sign of? that he about to bite, or that he is really scared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Jimmy, it was a sign your Pup was fearful.Your Pup wanted to initiate a Flight Response to take it away from the Source of Fear.Most Pups that are in a state of Fear will use Flight as a Defense. Jimmy,your Pup is young,your on the right track with the Socialisation and training. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 (edited) I know fear can be dangerous, if ge gets too scared he may bite? Anyway, we are going to puppy school soon and ten obedience schol - i guess wait until he is 12 months for this? I am going to get some advice from his foster carer and the puppy school folk on the timing of obedience training - but i figured as much socialisation as possible for the time being? hey JTH you should be able to attend puppy school now and can start proper obedience class's from 16 weeks at MOST schools, im not sure where you are located but there are some better schools around!!! but dont wait till 12months get him started ASAP!!!! :D Edited February 11, 2007 by sammy_ballerina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyTheHuman Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Sounds great - am located in vic. Will fin a puppy school tomorrow and start that and talk to all the folks there before picking obed school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Pilor erection (raised hackles) is a sign of a high state of arousal in a dog. It is NOT necessarily a sign of fear. The first incident you describe does sound like you got a submissive response. I don't necessarily think the second and third were. However, we weren't there to watch and the internet is no way to diagnose dog behaviour... get yourself to a decent trainer who will be able to help you figure out what you're seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 If you give us an idea of whereabouts in VIC you are, i'm sure someone can recommend a trainer/ puppy school/ obedience school in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyTheHuman Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Thanks - at the moment i will just take it easy, join puppy school talk to the carer (who knows him well) and go from there. Porbably no big deal - he has had a really big fea days going on a plane, meeting new folks, new place, new sounds and smells etc. I am Mornington way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 The one thing he does do we havent been able to get him to stop is jumping ont he couch - i think he really just wants to be up tere with us hvaing a cuddle, whats the best procedure for telling him to get down - currently he wont get off without a little bit of an encouraging push. Has he got a place inside where he is supposed to be, such as a bed on the floor or a crate? if so, every time he gets up on the couch, just tell him no and gently remove and put him on his bed. Don't try to drag him off the couch with a lead. When he is in the correct place, and staying there for any length of time, praise him and give him a treat. Poodlefan is correct. You cannot have your dog diagnosed over the internet so please find a good trainer to point you in the right direction as early as possible. Early traiing is retained extremely well by pups. You are shaping him into the kind of dog he will be in the future by guiding him properly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Andrea Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hi Jimmy, You can blame me for the couch thing. He was allowed on my couch but he actually never stayed up for long anyway. Just a cuddle and play for a while and then he quite happily took himself off. Easy way to get him off nicely is attract his attention with a favourite toy on his dog bed nearby and set that place as his area to be around you all when you are sitting down...make it appealing for him. The walking thing....as previously discussed, he was a much more confident on walks when his brother Jax, and foster buddy Matilda was around walking with him. Developing his confidence on his own is something I have been working on. His sister Kim, from what I gather is very similar. He is shy of new sounds, new things as I originally discussed with you. As others have said, the way in which you react as his leader is the most important aspect here. I have never heard him growl on walking. Sit and pull back to go back the way he came with a strange noise ...yes. How I respond to this is encouraging him on in an excited way and ignoring the sound and continuing on. Best to be pre-emptive too.....if there is an area where there is known to be a dog that barks get his attention in a fun way when you walk past and ignore the barking and if you appear not bothered then neither will he. Puppy class, the earlier the better (most have a large social people and doggy component which would be highly beneficial for him). A good obedience instructor should also give you some advice about the growling thing... don't want to play amateur diagnosis over the internet without even seeing it myself.... Pulling on lead was never an issue with me and him, but glad you have worked pulling problems out with him yourself. Can give me a call later if you want. PS. The sleeping alot? Most dogs snooze during the middle of the day...it's quite normal (and remember he is a pup..like a young child/toddler...so will probably have several camps during the day) ...you will find he is probably the most active in the early morning and the afternoon/early evening when it's the coolest, especially in summer. Cheers, Andrea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hey JTH - I thought you were looking for a Border or Aussie ... and didn't it have to be female?!?!?! LOL! Sowwy, couldn't help but comment . As for your 'issues' - nothing to add to the advice said here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Jimmy your dog sounds a lot like my Jess ( she is a 10mth old BC x GSD ...or something that looks like that ;) ) Andrea's advice is spot on, don't push him too much. My girl is coming along beautifully now, but all simply by encouraging and ignoring (at the same time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReXy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks - at the moment i will just take it easy, join puppy school talk to the carer (who knows him well) and go from there. Porbably no big deal - he has had a really big fea days going on a plane, meeting new folks, new place, new sounds and smells etc.I am Mornington way. jimmy pm me regarding puppy /obed school if you like, i did pm you and tell you about it , not sure if you have seen it or not.. dont wait any longer.. best to start now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyTheHuman Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hi Jimmy,You can blame me for the couch thing. He was allowed on my couch but he actually never stayed up for long anyway. Just a cuddle and play for a while and then he quite happily took himself off. Easy way to get him off nicely is attract his attention with a favourite toy on his dog bed nearby and set that place as his area to be around you all when you are sitting down...make it appealing for him. The walking thing....as previously discussed, he was a much more confident on walks when his brother Jax, and foster buddy Matilda was around walking with him. Developing his confidence on his own is something I have been working on. His sister Kim, from what I gather is very similar. He is shy of new sounds, new things as I originally discussed with you. As others have said, the way in which you react as his leader is the most important aspect here. I have never heard him growl on walking. Sit and pull back to go back the way he came with a strange noise ...yes. How I respond to this is encouraging him on in an excited way and ignoring the sound and continuing on. Best to be pre-emptive too.....if there is an area where there is known to be a dog that barks get his attention in a fun way when you walk past and ignore the barking and if you appear not bothered then neither will he. Puppy class, the earlier the better (most have a large social people and doggy component which would be highly beneficial for him). A good obedience instructor should also give you some advice about the growling thing... don't want to play amateur diagnosis over the internet without even seeing it myself.... Pulling on lead was never an issue with me and him, but glad you have worked pulling problems out with him yourself. Can give me a call later if you want. PS. The sleeping alot? Most dogs snooze during the middle of the day...it's quite normal (and remember he is a pup..like a young child/toddler...so will probably have several camps during the day) ...you will find he is probably the most active in the early morning and the afternoon/early evening when it's the coolest, especially in summer. Cheers, Andrea. Ahh We have worked out the couch ting now. As you suggested, we showed him what we wanted him to be and praised him, and never let him up, when he jumps up we say "no, Down" and he now he does. I have shortened his daily walk, by half. Now its just a few hundred metres. For the first half is cocky and confident. Seems like each noise chips away at his confidence - i have just been encouraging and distracting and now he walks this route very happily. Sorry if i was clear, he didnt growl. His kinda slinked down and his heckles came up - aside from that day it has only happened onece since when he was obviously frightened of a dog barking that he couldnt see. I think now that he was pulling on the lead out of fear - because the last time he was scared and his heckles came up he pulled on the lead, he just wanted to get home i think. Either way, whever he does it i stop and wait for him to relax then we walk - now i trots along with us nicely I was probably a little bit to eager with some of this stuff an shoudl ahve let him settle in more - he doesnt sleeps as much as he did on the first weekend - probably exhausted and a litrtle scared after his big journey. I will call at end of the week with a few questions - thanks vry much for the offer Rexy - thnks for the offer re the school - hastings is a litle far, i am going to Karingal which i very close - am booked in for next thursday - cant wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReXy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hi Jimmy, You can blame me for the couch thing. He was allowed on my couch but he actually never stayed up for long anyway. Just a cuddle and play for a while and then he quite happily took himself off. Easy way to get him off nicely is attract his attention with a favourite toy on his dog bed nearby and set that place as his area to be around you all when you are sitting down...make it appealing for him. The walking thing....as previously discussed, he was a much more confident on walks when his brother Jax, and foster buddy Matilda was around walking with him. Developing his confidence on his own is something I have been working on. His sister Kim, from what I gather is very similar. He is shy of new sounds, new things as I originally discussed with you. As others have said, the way in which you react as his leader is the most important aspect here. I have never heard him growl on walking. Sit and pull back to go back the way he came with a strange noise ...yes. How I respond to this is encouraging him on in an excited way and ignoring the sound and continuing on. Best to be pre-emptive too.....if there is an area where there is known to be a dog that barks get his attention in a fun way when you walk past and ignore the barking and if you appear not bothered then neither will he. Puppy class, the earlier the better (most have a large social people and doggy component which would be highly beneficial for him). A good obedience instructor should also give you some advice about the growling thing... don't want to play amateur diagnosis over the internet without even seeing it myself.... Pulling on lead was never an issue with me and him, but glad you have worked pulling problems out with him yourself. Can give me a call later if you want. PS. The sleeping alot? Most dogs snooze during the middle of the day...it's quite normal (and remember he is a pup..like a young child/toddler...so will probably have several camps during the day) ...you will find he is probably the most active in the early morning and the afternoon/early evening when it's the coolest, especially in summer. Cheers, Andrea. Ahh We have worked out the couch ting now. As you suggested, we showed him what we wanted him to be and praised him, and never let him up, when he jumps up we say "no, Down" and he now he does. I have shortened his daily walk, by half. Now its just a few hundred metres. For the first half is cocky and confident. Seems like each noise chips away at his confidence - i have just been encouraging and distracting and now he walks this route very happily. Sorry if i was clear, he didnt growl. His kinda slinked down and his heckles came up - aside from that day it has only happened onece since when he was obviously frightened of a dog barking that he couldnt see. I think now that he was pulling on the lead out of fear - because the last time he was scared and his heckles came up he pulled on the lead, he just wanted to get home i think. Either way, whever he does it i stop and wait for him to relax then we walk - now i trots along with us nicely I was probably a little bit to eager with some of this stuff an shoudl ahve let him settle in more - he doesnt sleeps as much as he did on the first weekend - probably exhausted and a litrtle scared after his big journey. I will call at end of the week with a few questions - thanks vry much for the offer :D Rexy - thnks for the offer re the school - hastings is a litle far, i am going to Karingal which i very close - am booked in for next thursday - cant wait :D awsome jimmy, let us know how u go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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