Vickie Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 We ventured into a bigger yard today...she was a little more full on than in the round yard but still pretty sensible for a young dog. We had a rogue sheep in there, who kept separating from the others. She didn't always notice that he'd gone straight away, but certainly did her best to bring him back when she saw him. She is very kind to her sheep & doesn't seem to have any malice...and was also very comfortable face to face. I think she did very well & she has nice natural balance. I said nothing to her other than good girl & tried to use my body to help her. She was a little more pushy than I thought she'd be but Since this is only her 2nd day balancing, I think she'll work out her pace soon enough. Some video's if anyone wants to have a look. I am thinking now I will leave her for a couple of months & let her mature a little more, both physically & mentally. Thoughts? Would you do this, or would you keep going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Can it be dangerous for the dog if a long line is left attached? What if the sheep and dog got caught up in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Looking good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I don't know much (ok nothing) about herding but she isn't looking to bad Vickie - way to go Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpies4me Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi Vickie How old is she? Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi Vickie, She looks pretty good there for her 2nd time. I would probably give her some more runs over the cooler months rather than resting her then. If you are going to take Trim somewhere you may as well give Shine a run. She doesn't look like she has any real prob to work on so a few nice easy positive runs for her in succession would be beneficial for her in my non professioanl opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Vickie,I would keep her going now. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Way to go Shine. Wish I could see the videos but only have dial up. Good luck with whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 What would be the benefits from waiting a few more months? She looks great now. I would keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 How old is she? She's 10 months Julie I would probably give her some more runs over the cooler months rather than resting her then. If you are going to take Trim somewhere you may as well give Shine a run. That's a point...I can't wait for it to get cooler. Vickie,I would keep her going now. Thank you Tony, is this what you would always do or would it depend on the pup? What would be the benefits from waiting a few more months? She looks great now. I would keep it up. I just feel like she is still such a puppy in lots of ways (which she is at 10mths)and I still have so much to learn & experience. I don't want to mistake her sensibleness for maturity. She is also very leggy & has a lot of filling out to do. She has a lovely solid temperament so I'm not worried about that but I know that lots of people give their pups a taste & then wait till they grow up a bit before asking anything of them. I guess if I just spend some time letting her work things out & not commanding her, I am not putting pressure on her. I just wish I was a better handler for her, I keep feeling that I should be more competent with Trim before I start again, but they are such different dogs so it's hard. Thank you all, it's nice to be able to bounce things off you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Vickie,I cannot see any harm in keeping her going.You not going to be working her all day every day, so I see no harm in a little every day or whatever your schedule allows.Your not working her on tough old Rams or anything and she should gain confidence with the type of Sheep your using in the Video. Vickie,you may be a bit hard on yourself.Yes we all want to be better Dog Trainers true.How do we get there?Experience plays a big part.How do we get experience?By doing,trying,observing and seeing what works.You are obvisouly seeking knowledge,are observant and aware or otherwise you would not be asking these questions.Keep up the good work and give yourself a bit of credit. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) It is an interesting topic about when to start pups. There are so many different views so i really dont know what is best. My pup is now 6 months and she is on dogged sheep in controlled situations whenever possible. We are just starting now to add a few commands but she is doing nothing serious and basically just having fun. She works for a short period of time about 3 times a week. I guess it depends alot upon the dog and its lines as to when they are ready for further training. We are doing some real stock work this week so she will remain firmly on the chain . Edited April 2, 2007 by jesomil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I thought I'd posted on this thread! I was watching Shine yesterday (well as well as I could while also videoing) and to my inexpert eyes she's looking really nice, smooth and calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Sidoney,your right.I have seen pups of that age going a hell of a lot worse than Shine. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 Please don't get me wrong...I am certainly NOT unhappy with her. I think she did an awesome job & I think she is going to be a fantastic pup for me on sheep. I overthink stuff...LOL...it's what I do. I have a thousand questions in my mind...I just want to do the best I can for her. I am always torn between the "let them work it out" and the "don't let them practice what you don't want" arguments. I never know when is the right time to switch from one to the other... Thank you for videoing Sidoney & I am so glad you came & that you & Xia & Ellie & Pickle had such great experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Vickie as you once said to me on a list its not a bad thing to over think stuff . I am the same and sometimes you just need to voice those thoughts and get another take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Great videos Vickie, she is certainly much calmer than my 2 , although yesterday was the first time that I did actually think I had some control with both of them . I'm far from being an expert, but my novice view would be to keep working her when you get a chance, but without pushing her. Also as someone said, it doesnt make too much sense to rest her over the cooler weather. Make sure the sheep are nice & quiet & Im sure she will gain lots of positive experiences from working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) I am always torn between the "let them work it out" and the "don't let them practice what you don't want" arguments. Now I'm not coming from sheep experience here, but I don't see that the two have to be mutually exclusive. If you set it up so that they have only limited options for action, one of which is the right one, and none of the others being a problem, then you could do both. It's what we usually do as trainers, I think. Don't have the possibility of "all going to pieces", but set it up so the dog can choose, while making it easy to choose. I think it involves a certain amount of creativity in setting up the situation, but that's half the fun. Edited April 2, 2007 by sidoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) I am always torn between the "let them work it out" and the "don't let them practice what you don't want" arguments. Now I'm not coming from sheep experience here, but I don't see that the two have to be mutually exclusive. If you set it up so that they have only limited options for action, one of which is the right one, and none of the others being a problem, then you could do both. I just don't see it as that simple, but I am probably seeing it wrong . An example: A young dog is working too close to sheep... -Are they just a young excited dog? -Do they need to feel the effect of that & experience the consequences so that they know to back off a bit? -Are they going to feel good when they learn that releasing pressure is much easier to hang on or sheep or are they going to enjoy creating movement & pushing so much that unless you interfere it's going to be a problem? -Do they need to be pushed off straight away so as not to get comfortable with it or should you give them a chance to see what will happen? -If they are naturally going to be wide & you push them off in the beginning, are they going to be too far off as they mature? -Are they too close b/c of the way the handler is managing the sheep -Are they too close b/c they need to be to move those particular sheep? I could list as many options for gripping and probably a whole host of other things. My gut feeling is that all of the above depends on time, the dog, the sheep & the experience of the handler. now you know what I mean when I say I overthink Problem is I have heard the responses to all those questions & they are different from different people...depending on their beliefs & the current situation. I just don't have the experience yet to guage the situation so until then I just ned to keep asking questions. Edited April 2, 2007 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Oh yes sometimes more takes on a situation doesn't make it any easier - especially when there all different . I am sure whatever you do will be right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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