ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Royal Canin then will be off some lists as it has has had recalls of not only their wet/canned/pouches BUT also their dry foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) Gomez, we feed our dogs natural balance http://www.naturalbalance.net.au/ and they are doing quite well on it. From checking in the past they use lamb meal, but it is from human grade meat direct from the abbatoirs.. Why do you not like corn or corn gluten meal ? From my understanding some dogs (and people) might not handle wheat well, some might not do well with rice, some might not digest corn well. But to say 'corn' (or wheat or corn) is not good is a bit simplistic, it does depend on the dog. we have friends who's dog's were allergic to wheat, and others who do well on foods that contain wheat... badboyz-i thought the video was interesting, but usa is not the same as australia, and meat suppliers can certainly vary in quality. Don't forget usa/canada/europe got mad cow disease-australia NEVER has. What happens in the USA doesn't necessarily happen here.. i always think of restaurants as an example-you can't say all restaurants are bad, but some certainly 'cut corner's and produce unsafe food, its the same with suppliers. I used to work in restaurants and some suppliers were terrible, and a good restaurant wouldn't buy from them, even if they were cheaper...emphasis on 'good' restaurant.... That's why this quality problem in the USA has shown a lot of people what happens in the usa/canada with so many companies 'cutting corner's' with suppliers..... The usa has some pet food manufacturers that weren't involved in the recall because they didn't use low quality suppliers, and now people know who did cut corners (and who didn't keep checking their suppliers) and what companies they can trust.... Edited May 9, 2007 by larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomez the Norfolk Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Larry, if you feed a dog corn kernels, they come out entire out the other end - corn is not digested by dogs - so whatis the point of putting it in food, other than as a filler? I certainly don't want my dog eating useless ingredients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I fed my two puppies a food containing corn and they both had sloppy poo and dropped condition, one became really skinny and started eating lots of grass. I changed to a food that didn't contain corn (Nutro Lamb and Rice) and the difference was amazing, obviously they don't handle corn well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomez the Norfolk Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Gomez,we feed our dogs natural balance http://www.naturalbalance.net.au/ and they are doing quite well on it. From checking in the past they use lamb meal, but it is from human grade meat direct from the abbatoirs.. Why do you not like corn or corn gluten meal ? From my understanding some dogs (and people) might not handle wheat well, some might not do well with rice, some might not digest corn well. But to say 'corn' (or wheat or corn) is not good is a bit simplistic, it does depend on the dog. we have friends who's dog's were allergic to wheat, and others who do well on foods that contain wheat... badboyz-i thought the video was interesting, but usa is not the same as australia, and meat suppliers can certainly vary in quality. Don't forget usa/canada/europe got mad cow disease-australia NEVER has. What happens in the USA doesn't necessarily happen here.. i always think of restaurants as an example-you can't say all restaurants are bad, but some certainly 'cut corner's and produce unsafe food, its the same with suppliers. I used to work in restaurants and some suppliers were terrible, and a good restaurant wouldn't buy from them, even if they were cheaper...emphasis on 'good' restaurant.... That's why this quality problem in the USA has shown a lot of people what happens in the usa/canada with so many companies 'cutting corner's' with suppliers..... The usa has some pet food manufacturers that weren't involved in the recall because they didn't use low quality suppliers, and now people know who did cut corners (and who didn't keep checking their suppliers) and what companies they can trust.... Larry, a bit more time for your answer now, I just looked up the ingredients of Natural Balance from your link and to give you an idea of how I go through labels I have listed it out below... Ingredients for Adult Regular Energy: Rice, Australian lamb, corn gluten meal, tallow, Omega MagicTM essential oil blend, oat bran, FOS, yucca extract, sodium HMP, natural flavours, vitamins A D3 E K3 B1 B2 B3 B5 B6 B12, Folic Acid, Biotin, Copper (from Sulphate), Copper Chelate, Zinc (from Sulphate), Zinc Chelate, Manganese (from Oxide), Manganese Chelate, Iron (from Sulphate), Iron Chelate, Selenium, Iodine, and Calcium. Product protected by natural mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract. First ingredient is rice, not meat or meat meal - Omega MagicTM essential oil blend = huh? what oils? natural flavours = what kind of flavours and from what source? vitamin K3 (Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex ) is questioned for human consumption, why put it in dog food? Now, you say USA is not the same as Australia, but not all foods sold in Australia are made in Australia, a lot are imported, and the parent company is the same, so again, my argument for quality control, if it's not there, I don't rust the company... As for the restuarants, I will agree with you to a certain extent, however, as a chef, I can tell you that if the restaurant changes the chef, the suppliers and the quality could very well change and a patron may not notice it... And unsafe food, in resto kitchen can very well be produced even with the best ingredients, therefore my argument for across the board quality control... Anyway, I said it before and I will say it again, if your pet is doing well on it's present food, by all means, keep feeding it - however, do try to read labels and analyze them and research them closely as if they were for you - A good reference link here: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daccies Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Gomez, finally made up my mind today (its been so hard with all these debates) but managed to find eaglepack down at a dog groomers parlour and they're ordering in a small bag for me. Go to their website www.eaglepack.com.au and there is a list of stockists. Will see if I notice any difference over the next few weeks and keep you posted. Should be interesting as I've been feeding Advance - shock horror!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 (edited) Hi gomez from my understanding the australian 'natural balance' is NOT at all related to the usa 'natural balance' they have the same name, but are different companies, so you are incorrect there. i have been told that there are not related at all, or are you just assuming they are related ? regarding corn-we used to give our dogs home cooked foods in the past-and if we have them small pieces of vegetables mixed into their food (eg carrots, peas, etc) , then a lot of these also passed through undigested, so we pureed the veges to fix this. Does that mean vegetables are not good to feed to dogs ? I don't think so..... In dog foods i don't think they keep the corn are whole pieces, it is ground up in the mix so it is digestible, also the dog food is extruded, which means it is cooked with steam, this makes the starches more digestible (the same as for people-bread or breakfast cereals are a lot more digestible than flour. We make our own bread at home, so i am sure of this...) You really need to get some scientific test figures on the digestibility of ground and extruded corn before you make comments that corn is not digestible....I am sure i have read on the websites of the large pet food manufacturers in the past that they have tested this and the digestibility is good. I thought the nutro website had info on corn gluten as well ? miranda , that is a valid case where your dogs didn't react well to a food with corn, however I also know dogs that can't handle beef, others that are allergic to a variety of foods. It's like people, some people can eat everything, some are sensitive to certain foods, it doesn't mean a particular ingredient is bad, it just means that particular animal can't handle it... eg one of my friends get the 'runs ' from even a little bit of milk-does that mean milk is bad ?? Edited May 10, 2007 by larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Larry, Nutro do NOT use corn in their products, they do however use corn-gluten meal in some of their products and the relevant information from their website as to why they use corn-gluten meal has been posted to this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Hi gomezfrom my understanding the australian 'natural balance' is NOT at all related to the usa 'natural balance' they have the same name, but are different companies, so you are incorrect there. regarding corn-we used to give our dogs home cooked foods in the past-and if we have them small pieces of vegetables mixed into their food (eg carrots, peas, etc) , then a lot of these also passed through undigested, so we pureed the veges to fix this. Does that mean vegetables are not good to feed to dogs ? I don't think so..... In dog foods i don't think they keep the corn are whole pieces, it is ground up in the mix so it is digestible, also the dog food is extruded, which means it is cooked with steam, this makes the starches more digestible (the same as for people-bread or breakfast cereals are more digestible than flour) You really need to get some scientific test figures on the digestibility of ground and extruded corn before you make comments that corn is not digestible....I am sure i have read on the websites of the large pet food manufacturers in the past that they have tested this and the digestibility is good. miranda , that is a valid case where your dogs didn't react well to a food with corn, however I also know dogs that can't handle beef, others that are allergic to a variety of foods. It's like people, some people can eat everything, some are sensitive to certain foods, it doesn't mean a particular ingredient is bad, it just means that animal can't handle it... Corn is not easily digested by humans let alone dogs. Dogs have a totally different GI tract to humans, one that is designed to deal with flesh and bones and only a bare minimum of carbohydrate, unlike humans they don't even have the enzymes in their saliva that begin the process of breaking down starches. Cereals, corn, dried beet pulp and tomato pomace are all fillers and are included in the food mainly because they are cheap and readily available and secondly because they are a source of fibre which gives the dog a feeling of satiety and stops him feeling hungry. The greater the proportion of fillers in dog food the more food the dog will need to eat and the more poo will be produced as the fillers pass through the dog's digestive system virtually unprocessed. This is why cheap foods cause gas and loose faeces in some dogs, the gas is caused by the bacteria in the dog's gut trying unsuccessfully to digest the excess fibre which eventually comes out the other end as a light coloured, nasty smelling, sloppy mess. Of course pet food manufacturers are going to tell you that they've scientifically tested all their foods and that all the ingredients are highly digestible, they want you to buy the product. I've got a suggestion for you, go out and buy yourself a bag of Supercoat and a bag of Eagle Pack Holistic, feed your dogs on each product for a month and then tell me that you didn't notice any difference in a) the condition and energy levels of your dogs b) the amount of food you had to feed c) the amount of flatulence produced by your dogs d) the amount of poo produced by your dogs and e) the firmness of their stools. There is no dry food that is 100% good for your dog, they all contain fillers in some form, but some contain more and cheaper fillers than others. Personally I wouldn't feed any dry food that had a cereal product as its first ingredient, contained meat by products, soy, tallow or corn or any artificial colours, flavours or preservatives. I also wouldn't feed any dry food preserved using citric acid as this has been implicated as a causative factor in bloat. Regarding vegetables, some vegetables are fine for dogs, green leafy vegetables, carrots, pumpkin, sweet potato etc. Legumes and corn, mashed, pureed or whatever are extremely difficult for a dog to break down and if you feed them you'll almost certainly notice an interest in the amount of gas produced. Dogs certainly don't absorb the amount of goodness from vegetables that we do, but feeding them in moderation does no harm although too many vegetables will have a laxative effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Great posting Miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollythegoldenretriever Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 (edited) It is personal choice, and I think this thread has become too inflamed, I had over 9 people, virtually run me down through private message for wanting to feed Nutro Large Breed Puppy to my 9 week old puppy. Each dog food no matter how expensive or what brand, will have it's pros and it cons, so it is the owners choice in what too feed. Edited May 10, 2007 by hollythegoldenretriever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarian Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 It is personal choice, and I think this thread has become too inflamed, I had over 9 people, virtually run me down through private message for wanting to feed Nutro Large Breed Puppy to my 9 week old puppy.Each dog food no matter how expensive or what brand, will have it's pros and it cons, so it is the owners choice in what too feed. If nobody has already done so... let me welcome you to dogzonline. Mostly, you will find that there is a wealth of genuine information - or at the very least - genuine care. For you to have received negative PMs is unacceptable, and those responsible should be ashamed. We all start somewhere! When - many years ago (in the dark ages lol) - I started in my breed of choice, there was little information available about nutrition. These days, there is almost too much information. Choices are everywhere, and people sometimes get quite emotional over a brand of petfood. Whether people prefer to feed BARF, or Pal, or Eukanuba, or Eagle or whatever is for them to decide. Personally, over the years I have fed Supercoat, Pedigree Puppy, Advance Senior (which got our recently deceased Saint to his grand age of a health 12 plus years), Nutrience, Hills, Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Nutro, Eagle Pack, Pro Plan, and probably a few more. Every dog is different. If someone runs down a brand, it is important to ask why. As someone said somewhere, no petfood is perfect. That is why we have choice, the ability to add supplements, veges, fruits, meat, bones or whatever we personally feel is beneficial. To those who are so judgemental I ask you - a) have you visited a number of petfood factories to the point of truly understanding the processes involved, and b) do you really understand the impact you have in what you say. A lot of newbies come here asking genuine questions, only to fall into the middle of a brand versus brand heatwave. Now. Back to the truly interesting subject of what goes into petfood. But with some objectivity. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomez the Norfolk Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Miranda, Hesap and a Bear*, and Sagittarian - thanks for putting so eloquently what I have been stumbling about trying to say - And Holly, you feed whatever it is you judge the best for your puppy! Read the labels, do the research, make your own choices!! *I can't stop reading it like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 A thing to keep in mind too is all the doggies that live to a ripe old age and only ever got fed Pal!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fairchild Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 A thing to keep in mind too is all the doggies that live to a ripe old age and only ever got fed Pal!!! I have a fairly active old 17yo who was fed dry pedigree for 13 years. Then we put him of coprice when he came to us. Lately due to the drought it's been the cheap sunrice big W brand with some additives (tuna or sardines). He's still looking quite good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Gomez, try Hesa its easier. Saggitarian, another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 It is personal choice, and I think this thread has become too inflamed, I had over 9 people, virtually run me down through private message for wanting to feed Nutro Large Breed Puppy to my 9 week old puppy.Each dog food no matter how expensive or what brand, will have it's pros and it cons, so it is the owners choice in what too feed. :D You're kidding. Some have commercial interests here, as I'm sure you've gathered by now. Don't judge DOL by this thread. There's a lot of really helpful info. here, too. Did you want to try the foods? Companies like Nutrience and Nutro will send samples if you email them (very small packs). I've no idea what Purina One is like as a pet food, but Purina reimburse you for a 1.5-3.0kg bag if you sign up for a "30 day challenge" (answer questionnaire by email). The Purina One is in big supermarkets (Woolies, Coles etc.) not pet stores. Pup will love fresh foods like raw chicken wings, chicken necks, raw bones with meat, too. Doesn't involve any preparation and kitchen mess :p . Good luck with pup . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazz Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Wow just went through this thread. If there was one dog food that catered for EVERY individual dog's needs then there would be only one on the market. Ultimately there are companies that do use better quality ingredients but ... As responsible dog owners we feed the food that OUR dog does best on .... not what someone's elses does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 I feed Eukanuba FP (with steamed turkey on top) with the Eagle Pack Holistic Anchovy for treats. He also gets various other treats. Loves his Ziwipeak. It's taken a month and a bit to go through one small packet of it. I'm also looking at the Pet Patisserie's bikkies when they eventually do a turkey one and salmon one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamasgoldenboy Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 (edited) I use to fed Maverick on eukanuba, however he turned his nose up and would'n't eat it anymore. Then I tried the natural pedigree biscuits and Maverick got runny stools. We changed both Maverick and Chuck our springer spaniel to Nutro lamb and rice and they love the food and their coats are shiny and their stools are firm. Take a look at Chuck on the springers photos, he looks great. Maverick is on the cocker spaniel photos. ;) Edited May 12, 2007 by mamasgoldenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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