JulesP

Vegans and vegetarians get defensive because they get questioned and challenged constantly. And teased a lot. In the 20+ years I was a vego I didn't once tell someone that they shouldn't eat meat but had to deal with people constantly trying to trip me up. Did I use leather etc etc I wouldn't eat a humanely raised and killed cow. I feed meat to my dogs. And I fed meat to the hubby. A friend used to give me bones from her cows, humanely raised and killed. I struggled more feeding those bones than I did the ones from the supermarket. As I knew the cows. I was a vego because I am a sook though not because of any environmental issues. You are going to get different answers to your question depending on why the person is a vego/vegan.

Oh no. Come on Jed.

Hope the recovery goes well.

Bummer. Another day for Jed to get stronger for his op though.

My dog choose to eat the crappy soy food. :) Amber doesn't seem fussed. She gets fed lots and that is all she cares about. She gets her soy food and Poppy gets chicken necks. Amber never worries that she hasn't got the necks. The only time it is an issue is when other people want to give her a treat at say dog club and I have to say no. Some of them use cheese as treats and that is ok. At the vets today she couldn't have a liver treat but was happy with a pat.

I think its sad your kids don't get to chose themselves Why? Most kids eat what their parents want them to eat. Free choice comes when you leave home.

It has been a very polite, respectful discussion so far it would be nice to keep it that way.

I assume the kennel was concrete? And I assume that you don't normally keep him in a concrete run? It might be that having his movement restricted, not getting his runs and being on the cold concrete has caused the arthritis to become more obvious.

Let it dry and then use the vacuum cleaner! Big congratulations on your puppy Katdogs!

Good luck and will be thinking of you today.

I looked at that food but didn't like the yeast and brewers yeast in it. Too high in purine for my dog. It was also way too high in protein for my dog too.

Here is an example of an overseas vegan dog food - http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/product.aspx?ProductID=18&product=Vegetarian+Dry+Dog+Formula And another one - http://www.avodermnatural.com/Dog_Foods/vegetarian13oz_can.htm She could have veggie oils. Without the egg white you are really only left with soy and other veggie protein.

JulesP's dog has liver shunts. If she ate a "normal" dog diet my understanding is that she'd have seizures and could die as a result. I'm sorry to hear that. Is that something dogs are born with? I asked the questions because I thought the problem may have occurred after having eaten a normal diet without issues for some period of time. Obviously, if there's a medical reason for the diet, then the vegan or vegetarian diet is going to result in a far more positive and healthy animal. But if that medical problem occurred after having eaten a "normal" diet without issue - there lies the comparison I'm interested in. I shouldn't assume, though. Yes she was born with the condition. Well she wasn't born with the shunts but they developed because of a problem with her liver that she was born with. I had issues with her eating normal food from the beginning. The better the quality of the kibble, the worse the problems got. She actually refused to eat the super premium foods (Artemis, Canidae, Evo). She would eat a bit of the lower protein foods. Totally refused to eat Barf patties, mince, Natures Gift tinned or VAN. I put her on RAW and she got really sick. She is vegetarian as she can eat egg whites. She got put on Hills L/D and meds. The Hills L/D has egg and soy protein in it, plus some chicken fat. Last time I gave her a lamp flap she had a seizure. I also used a drink for sick kids, think that was soy based rather than whey based. So yes she always had issues with a 'normal' diet. She loves her L/D and after having a dog refusing to eat that is great to watch. I buy vego biscuits for her. I looked at the Vegan pet food but wasn't happy with the ingredients. The problem was either too much sodium or ingredients that were too high in purine. So whilst I wouldn't particularly go and feed a normal dog a vego/vegan diet I think they would do ok on it as long as it was good quality, with soy or egg to replace the meat. A bowl of veggies wouldn't do obviously! Her teeth are great btw.

I did.

I get skinnier when I eat meat :laugh: Not so many carbs being consumed.

I fed my dogs meat when I was a vego. Amber is pretty much on a vego diet for health reasons, there is a little bit of animal fat in her food but the protein source is veggie. She is doing very well on it. Veggie protein is easier for her liver to process.

So sorry that you lost Bison. You both fought hard.

The food is around $15 for 3 kilos. So not sure what people expect for that sort of price. It is a supermarket quality dog food. I'm not saying that to rubblish it bit you can't be comparing it to super expensive premium dog food. However if your dog does well on it - dance a happy jig! I would rather be spending $15 than $40. I did try a bag with Poppy. I've noticed no negative effects. She likes eating it. Poos are ok. No weird coat things happening. Amber also ate some and she is super fussy. The fact that Amber didn't have issues with it would suggest that the meat content is fairly low.

Funky cat do some steps. His stuff is really, really well made. http://www.funkycat.com.au/steps.htm

Good that he is stabilizing. What has the breeder said? I wish I could help you with what to do. I hadn't decided whether I would get the op done with my dog but then that wasn't an option in the end. I was a bit worried about the odds at the time. My girl was one when she was diagnosed.

How is the puppy today? Has his eyesight come back?

This is interesting , Jules ..perhaps, with her altered chemistry, she doesn't produce the same things in her saliva? Yeah I was quite concerned about how her teeth would go. The food is vegetarian so don't know if that makes a difference? The tinned Hills L/D takes a bit of chewing too, it is firmer than normal tinned dog food.

Amber has :) I am quite surprised as I was worried about her teeth. She eat Hills L/D kibble. No bones as she can't have them, no greenies etc either for the same reason. Her teeth look better than Poppy's who does eat bones.

I have Amber 'well' on diet and drugs. You really wouldn't know there was anything wrong with her if you saw her at the park. So it is possible to get them stable. Amber eats Hills L/D dog food and has Metrogyl (an antibiotic), she also has a diuretic (which you only need if there are fluid issues). The puppy will need lots of small meals a day, 6 if you can. Lactulose might be needed to get those toxins out of him. A product that I found helpful was Pediaure. It is a drink for sick kids. It is easy for the liver to digest and gives it a rest whilst supplying the dog with nutrients. It is available in Chemist's Warehouse in a tin. There are other things you can add in, milk thistle, pro-biotics, various vitamins.

This group helped me a lot when Amber was diagnosed. They are mainly overseas folks so take a bit of time to reply. You need to get your membership approved before you can read or post. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DogLiverShuntandDisease/messages