huski

I think it depends on what your definition of 'old fashioned/old school' is. In an obedience club setting like the one the OP was talking about, the paddock bashing classes where dogs are given a good leash correction when they step out of place (instead of, say, actually teaching them where heel position is) is what I think of when I think of old school training.

I see plenty of obedience clubs that use rewards, but the training overall is still old school/old fashioned. Old fashioned doesn't always mean cruel, or that rewards are never used. Walking up and down 'heeling' your dog for an hour, no matter how you dress it up, is old school and not how any top triallers I know teach their dogs obedience. At best, the dogs get bored and switch off, at worse you see methods like the one the OP saw being used. Like Agility Dogs, I have no problems with corrections at all, but at every obedience club I've been to I see them used too often, when they aren't necessary or incorrectly. Most obedience clubs still used very old fashioned methods, especially compared to a lot of agility clubs which tend to be more progressive. Why would you label yourself as an old school trainer Nekhbet? What does it mean to you? I don't use the word old school or old fashion as a way of implying modern methods are purely positive or some other drivel, but you have to admit that a lot of obedience clubs still paddock bash and use corrections when they are not IMO necessary and those methods ARE out dated.

The term old school training is hardly shallow, what else would you call marching around a paddock for an hour yanking your dog around on a check chain with you? Check chains themselves aren't old school if used correctly, but there are far better ways to teach obedience than popping a dog on the leash every time it steps out of 'heel position'.

Steve from K9 Pro offers a specific course designed for when people bring their baby home, although it sounds like your friend may require an emergency consult if the problem is that serious.

I have a degree too, and yet whether the behaviourist I am consulting has one really doesn't factor into my decision to work with them. I know so many wonderful behaviourists who don't have a PhD who are amazing at what they do, so much so that I really don't understand how it is such a conundrum for you. I will hire whoever I think is best at what they do, whether or not they have a degree really does not factor into how good they are at what they do. I've never had any trouble finding a reputable behaviourist, who can 'approach the problem systematically' and 'justify what they are doing and how it works'. You said yourself that having a degree alone is no measure on how good a behaviourist a person is, and that you've met people who don't have a degree who are great behaviourists. So why does having a degree even factor into your decision making process? Surely you wouldn't go with a behaviourist purely because they had a PhD? IMO a behaviourist is simply someone who works in the field of dog behaviour, just as a doctor is someone who works in the field of medicine. Simply having the title of dog behaviourist or medical doctor does not tell you how good the person is at their job, it is simply a description of what they do. There are bad doctors out there just as there are bad behaviourists out there. And yes, I agree that dog training being a completely unregulated field is a problem, but that doesn't change that the title of behaviourist is a pretty simple one by definition.

There is no way on earth I would allow someone who had PhDs/degrees etc touch my dogs if they have no real experience behind them. Having academic knowledge is not the same as having practical experience and I would choose someone who has had the practical experience and has proven their abilities over someone who has completed a degree but doesn't have the same experience behind them every time. When choosing a trainer or behaviourist I couldn't care less if they come from an academic background, I care about the methods they use and the results they get, and how they can teach me to work with my dogs to get what I want. ETA: I also find it hard to believe you'd have no recommendations to go on. If you can't find any recommendations for a particular trainer/behaviourist shouldn't that be a red flag?

Yep I agree. And it frustrates me to no end, even going to an obedience trial you see people handle their dogs in ways I find quite atrocious, I will never understand why people don't care if their dog WANTS to work for them or is happy to do so, as long as the dog does what it is told. Nothing looks worse than a dog basically going through the paces, with no real relationship with the handler. Yuck. LizT, using food rewards does not need to be about bribing the dog, if you are using food as a bribe you are using it incorrectly IMO.

Geez GG, just saw this. Fingers crossed Tess comes home soon!

I agree with Kavik - have you tried shaping super simple things like hand touches etc? Or targeting something with their nose or picking something up to teach them how to shape? I'd only ever really used luring with Daisy until I decided to teach the dumbell retrieve when she was two or three years old. Now she is way more confident with shaping :D

Thanks everyone! Cherry had a good day and got lots of treats and a yummy dinner

My little Cherry bean turns TWELVE years old today ;) She is the first dog I ever owned, and is such a special little dog. Whenever people ask me what she is, I usually just say 'a Cherry' because she is really one of a kind Here's some recent Cherry pics. Lots of people seem to think she is a still a puppy and are shocked when they learn how old she is :D Happy birthday little Cherry dog ;)

Who here thinks they will go for a Rally O title when it officially comes in? Especially for those whose dogs already have obedience titles?

Food without a doubt.

Yes it's true, once I asked her to work for a Coles brand donut You can tell just watching her she's terribly unhappy.

That my dog is stressed and bored when she works, that I use confrontational and cruel methods, apparently I am an awful cruel handler... LOL.

I have had professionals handle my dogs in ways that still makes me feel sick to my stomach, years later. Never again will I allow people to handle my dogs in ways I don't feel comfortable or KNOW are wrong. As for Pewither's comment that the judge was just doing what was acceptable... bullshit. There is never any excuse to abuse a dog just because everyone else is doing it.

If that's the case TM then shoot Steve an email about this problem and I am sure he will help you out.

Ohhhh will look forward to seeing you guys at the workshop

:D huski - just scribing in the games ring - talk about jumping in at the deep end - one of the hardest jobs of all Haha thankfully I was just the second scribe! One of our lovely instructors was the main scribe luckily

AD you are too nice. I am pretty sure I was a dreadful scribe - the games ring is hard LOL! but it was so much fun and I hope we can compete one day too! We have a long way to go before then though

DB why don't you take some home with you? Most of the people in the beginners class do

Aggression can be fixed in 10-15 minutes? Sign me up, 55Chevy. Could you let me know your name and contact details so I can recommend you to all of my friends???

Awwww I didn't even know you were there!! Wish I had seen you, would have popped over to say hi There is no way we could have done anything in the games ring, waaaaaaay too hard for us (yet) LOL!

Well done Jules! We went to a rally-o demo today. It was quite hot in the middle of the day when we did an advanced run out, and I didn't switch Daisy on before we went in and she got caught on a scent so I withdrew her. I was SO dishearted! But we gave the novice ring a go a little bit later and she did quite well, everyone was asking me if it was the same dog from earlier I was quite pleased with her focus and drive in the second run out... more like the beagle I am used to having

I went to my first ADAA agility trial last night! I was just scribing in the games ring... wow agility seems so complicated! LOL! I am concerned I will need coordination skills I definitely don't possess, haha.