SkySoaringMagpie

A well known artist in Canberra had an Saluki called Genny years ago, short for - well, never mind. I steer clear of anything that sounds like a command - so Joe is out because it sounds like "no". I also steer clear of anything common or "famous" in my breed - so no Jamilas/Jamals because it's everywhere. Bit like Nikki or Vlad for Borzoi. And I would not call a Saluki Impulse, Vandal, Freyha, Banner, Jordan, Jack, Rafi etc because those names are already "taken" in terms of the achievements of those dogs in the breed. Lovely names, but it would be a be "upstart" thing to name my dog that and besides, I would not want one of mine being in the shadow of a famous name anyway.

When I was growing up we had a cat called Cholmondeley* Majoribanks. This was because he was a very plain tabby cat so my father thought he should have a fancy name. He was Marshbanks for short. So your adoptees may have been similarly nuts. (oh so that's where she gets it from, thinks the DOLiverse...) *Cholmondeley is pronounced "chumley"

I think part of the difficulty is that dog rescue is generally considered a noble pursuit, so any criticism tends to jar a lot of people. I like what Aphra said about setting the tone you want for your efforts/FB page/whatever. I think the best we can do is just create our own sanity, and quietly steer clear of the whackos. Unfortunately the whackos are good at sucking in Jo Public, at least initially. And a lot of stuff that doesn't play well in person - particularly the really glurgey stuff - does play better online unfortunately. So somehow we need to catch up with the downside of online behaviour, because again agreeing with Aphra, the good stuff about online is really good.

Ran into this once while walking two smooth Salukis. Guy with his wife says "are they ex-racers?" I explained no, they were smooth Salukis. I have quick spiel for that: "just like chihuahuas and dachshunds they can be smooth or coated" As I'm walking away, I hear the guy say "they are definitely ex-racers".

No Tris has Basset Fauve de Bretagnes.

Nobody said that. In our breed extension for example, it says "adolescents should be treated with sensitivity". But that means what it says, not that they have a license to be total fruitcakes that no-one can lay a hand on. IOW, if they are going through a tricky period, if you treat them sensitively, they will stand just fine. Mind you, I'd probably rewrite that bit to say "adolescents may try it on, be gentle but firm" :laugh:

I've been chatting to Trisven about this to explain why I disagree. My tone was unnecessarily harsh tho', and for that I apologise.

Yes, when they ran it in the regional press they had a picture but this was the only story I could turn up last night. Apparently it was on the weekend TV news too. Simply Grand, a lot of these sorts of "feel good" stories are press release based. That is, the organisation releases a press release and then the media decides whether to run with it. Edit - et voila, the Vic Police press release with a piccie :D http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/more-news/11847-long-paw-of-the-law.html

THREE German shepherd police puppies will follow in the paw prints of Inspector Rex, despite being rejected by their mother. The three female pups were abandoned by their new mum just days after being born, only to be quickly taken in by Xanthe, a trained Customs and Border Protection labrador. Victoria Police Acting Inspector Shaun McGovern said the puppies were doing well thanks to the generosity of their adoptive parent. "It was a rough first week for our pups, but thanks to Customs they have had a mother's care and are doing really well," he said. "We might have to nominate Xanthe for mother of the year." He said Victoria Police and Customs were used to working together, just not usually with matters of the four-legged variety. Thriving alongside their labrador siblings, the puppies will be assessed for their potential for canine police work when they're older. If successful, they'll be used to track, search and perform criminal work exercises. But for now they will stay part of Xanthe's expanded brood, which has been aptly nicknamed the "Germador" litter. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/customs-dog-mum-saves-vic-police-pups/story-e6frfku9-1226598014384#ixzz2NshFEjkh

This. And while all breeds judges might not be able to apply the detailed knowledge a specialist can, when it comes to temperament, I think this thread shows a bit of tortuous self-justification. I show a breed that isn't effusive with strangers. Not effusive with strangers doesn't mean "can't stand and be examined in the presence of its owner/master/handler". It's interesting that Azawakhs were dragged in. I think if people knew what many of those silkily perfect Afghans are really like (note "a certain keen fierceness" in the standard) they would have renewed respect for their handlers. The thing is, those handlers, and the handlers of Dobes and some of the stroppier terriers are all over it. The dogs are examined, they behave, there is no drama. A Maremma is not a Presa.

Beware the negative chat swear jar :laugh: You have my thoughts already, the only other observation is that I've seen you in action when you're in your comfort zone, and sometimes it's just a case of translating that confidence to different environments.

I'm joining you in the pedant corner. A good lurcher or longdog can be both beautiful and functional in the right hands so I am not putting mixed breeds down, but these are not Wolfhounds and it's misleading to call them Wolfhounds.

Yes, that's fine to save it. Feel free to fix up grammatical errors. I could have also mentioned drainage, ventilation, etc about kennels. I would like to design some kennels one day. :) Thank you. I am told that the design of the Customs Detector Dog Facility in Melbourne is state of the art with very advanced ventilation systems. I hope I can visit it and take a stickybeak one day.

Doesn't sound like you've listened to what the other posters have said so far. FWIW, when I had my Salukis' hearts echoed, when we started the consult the cardiologist said "OK, I have the normal profiles from the Saluki Club of America" - IOW, he'd done the necessary mouse clicking to find the breed information he needed without any drama. Yes, sometimes vets will say "is this an issue in Salukis"? I'm happy to help out with what I know. You know what else I've seen. Veterinary consultants who want genetic information used to "practice build" and dupe pet owners into having a lot of unnecessary expensive tests. Do you have an interest in that side of things?

To respond to HW, the earliest on Salukis in written form is probably Al-Mansur's "On Hunting" (1247). Nothing in it takes the form of a standard as we understand standards in pedigree dog world - the section titled "Observations on their good qualities and their faults" probably comes closest. Some of the material in it is definitely not to be followed - treatment for mange for example, tie them in the sun on a hot day with oil on the mangey bit... Edit - for completeness Abu-Nuwas al-Hasan ben Hani al-Hakami (756–814) wrote poetry about Salukis but it wasn't anything that you could describe as a standard. Some beautiful stuff tho'.

Let's look closely at what it means to care for dogs correctly in a shelter. Dogs living in a shelter are a bit like humans living in an institution. Both dogs and humans thrive in a domestic environment, this is how we like to live, and how we do best. In an institution, there are factors that can contribute to a less than healthy environment that have to be dealt with. Living in close confines with a changing series of new dogs means that the environment has to be constructed in a way that doesn't harbour bacteria, viruses or parasites. The surfaces need to be very easy to clean and need to be robust as well. This applies to human institutions and to kennels, and there are codes of practice that can be followed to achieve this aim as closely as possible. If this isn't done, then there is a risk of a sudden serious disease outbreak or parasite infestation going through the whole place. It isn't about how it looks (especially not in kennels), but how the place is constructed. The resources have to be there to do this, it is not good enough to use sub-quality salvaged materials. It's a huge risk of sudden catastrophe, and therefore a welfare concern. Living in a kennel is like living in an institution in other ways. Enough mental stimulation must be provided for well-being, and this is known as 'enrichment'. Without enrichment in a person or a dog's life, their psychological health will deteriorate, and the effects can be permanent. So if somebody is managing a shelter or kennel, and has enough money to maintain the physical environment and also to sufficiently enrich the lives of their kennel dogs, they are running the place correctly. The dogs will be healthy and happy. Same as people can be healthy and happy if they are living in a very well run institution. Much easier to run a dog kennel though I think. This forum is full of breeders and others who keep dogs in kennels and who devote the time to enriching the lives of those dogs so that they are well-adjusted and happy dogs. So, another part of running a kennel or a shelter or an institution for people is having the ability to control how many are admitted in the first place. Knowing what resources are available and matching that to the numbers taken in. But the problem with dogs is that we are not able to control the numbers of irresponsible people who dump their animals. So it requires shelter people to make hard decisions about which dogs are allowed in or which ones can continue to stay there. They need to make a rational decision based on the resources available to them, because if they don't do that they cannot provide for the needs of each dog they take in. This is where the label "No Kill" can be a big problem. Nobody in any rehoming shelter wants dogs killed. But well-run shelters ensure that they never have more dogs than they do resources to care for them and that involves either turning some dogs away and/or euthanising those that have little prospect of being rehomed successfully. Lola didn't turn dogs away and didn't euthanise dogs who could not be rehomed and did not have enough resources to sustain the number of animals she was accepting. This would indicate that she was failing to manage her shelter. Be very wary of organisations that claim to be No Kill. Either they are turning many dogs away, which is fine, or they are hoarding them. If they are turning dogs away at the door, they are using the term No Kill to give themselves a marketing advantage over shelters that have a council contract to take all surrenders. This marketing advantage is based purely on manipulating emotions and disparaging other shelters, and so I regard it as an unethical management practice. A good shelter should be able to describe what they do without having a go at what other shelters do. There is never a good reason for using the term No Kill. x 2. I am going to save this if it's OK with you GM, it's a really good explanation.

This, exactly. It's hard and boring, but we have to produce a product that people want to buy, so that they are prepared to put their money in the hands of the responsible rather than the irresponsible. More regulation is not the answer, particularly as we don't have a proper baseline to do a cost benefit analysis on proposed regulation because existing laws that would help with the unwanted dog population are not being enforced right now. Quite frankly, I don't think there is a way to legislate to give a puppy proper socialisation and enrichment anyway, how do we agree on what is appropriate and sufficient?

The Vic Saluki Club do a really good job of their in show prizes. They are usually some kind of themed artwork including things like painted tiles from the middle east, prints of art painted by the judge, etc. NSW Saluki Club have also done some nice breed specific stuff - etched glassware, trophies with original art etc. I think it requires a dedicated trophy officer with good taste and a club prepared to spend a little over the limits OR a club where someone is prepared to shake down people for donations. I know Vic asks people to donate for rosettes and sashes for example. Not every club has the people with the skill and time to do that tho'.

Something which could easily be translated as: "We don't have the wherewithall to do what we are doing, and we don't realise that we look like hoarders". Please note I am not saying that they are hoarders, or passing a judgement on a place I've never seen - what I am doing is commenting on the evident lack of realistic self-appraisal in some of these defensive pieces put out by people who are in trouble. "Hi, we got out of our depth and now we need some help from the community" would be a lot more believable and elicit more sympathy than this bit of insulting self-justification. Now I understand better why the lawyer who ran the legal seminar put on by DogsNSW suggested people in trouble with the RSPCA shut up, say nothing and leave it to their lawyers. They sound like they are away with the fairies.

I'm not defending the RSPCA's treatment of other cases, but really, even if she'd had fair body weight, tied to a tree by a chain with a flea and worm infestation and a uterine infection plus pups in the dirt is not on. And if she was PTS for temp, while I'm not a huge fan of the RSPCA temp tests, I've seen enough Wolfhound mixes to know that often the temperament is beyond the average person and there are no shortage of them looking for homes. Maybe it's because I managed to run into more than the usual number of pigging utes in town yesterday, two with manifestly miserable looking dogs squished into cages too small for them but my sympathy for these people is basically zero.

I need to put this as a sticky somewhere. Good advice. EF punctuation fail.

You could just as easily say that for population control we should desex all dogs and leave the bitches alone. After all the procedure is more invasive and expensive for bitches. Life isn't that simple in a world where we want people to retain freedom of choice and regulators are routinely underfunded. My view is that if the dog or bitch does not have a responsible breeding future, and is to be rehomed or rescued, it should be desexed. Not just because of unwanted breeding, which is a significant burden on the community, but because it takes skill and patience to manage entire dogs and bitches. A dog is more likely to stick in a home if it isn't pissing all over everything or whining for 1 week straight during its season etc etc. And yes, people will say "oh but you can train". Yes you can, I manage a house with 2 entire bitches and 4 entire dogs and we haven't had unwanted litters or but sometimes it has been very hard work. And many people have neither the inclination nor the desire to work through it. You know, I would never desex my dogs unless there was a health reason like pyo to demand it. I fully understand all the reasons why desexing is not ideal. I just think the risks in homes where there is no responsible breeding future for the dog outweigh the other considerations.

Breeders are used to other breeders making fake inquiries so I always respond to inquiries (rescue or breed) as if there were a panel of my peers listening/reading/watching. With rescue I think like anything else it can attract the not so mentally healthy, and one of the usual malfunctions is needing to believe that no-one else does it as well as you. I'm not sure why animal rights people would target rescue organisations ahead of breeders, I'd put it down to politics or just your average nutter. Sometimes chronic tire kickers do this too.

Thanks everyone, as they are not my dogs I can only provide advice - and am conscious of the need not to start lecturing. However, thank you all for confirming what I already suspected, which is that B&T is not the right way to go about it.

That has definitely been my starting position, do you mind PMing me the name? Hopefully I can at least warn them off the worst options tho' I've already said the whole "it's an unregulated industry, lots of cowboys and scammers" bit.