SkySoaringMagpie

I'm sure sometimes it is altruism but I'm afraid I think much of the time it's unexamined emotional baggage and people writing scripts for themselves that bear no resemblance to reality to suit their emotional needs. FB has ratcheted this up a notch or three with pages dedicated to very unfortunate dogs that IMO should be kindly PTS. Looking at them, a lot of them are more about getting recognition for the human than they are about the dog. Obedience trainers are also familiar with "he can't because he's a rescue and was abused" which generally means "I don't have to try because he's a rescue". I'll never forget one confident little dog who had his owner wrapped right around his paw, he wasn't not doing things because he was a terrified rescue, he was not doing them because she was refusing to provide any kind of leadership at all and he was a dog that really needed someone to set boundaries. I'm saying this as someone who does breed rescue, not as someone who is anti-rescue. I want to see rescues placed, but I don't want to see lies about their background, because if people are prepared to make up stories about that, what else have they been fibbing to me about?

I'm getting to the stage where I would ask "why do you ask?". Because this need to have an abused dog and save it is something that I've become increasingly worried about, why do people want to think their dog has been abused? Ultimately we should be aiming for a society where all dogs are wanted and well cared for. Anyway, like the others I agree that you just can't know with behaviour you haven't seen. Obviously physical stuff like cigarette burns and collar damage is visible, but again, agreeing with the others, I've had dogs in the house that were previously living in appalling conditions and their temperament was so good that they came out of it smiling.

Yes, nice to see someone putting their bitch's health and well being first.

I'm not sure if this is necessarily a multiple dog problem as much as it is a management problem, but having two certainly does complicate matters. Who dictates activity during the day, is it the dogs? By that I mean, have you decided on a routine of "up" and "down" time and then stuck to it? Dogs can be very good at the whole "let me out so I can come back in again" thing, in all its various forms and they can run your whole day having you jumping to their tune if you let them. If this was me, I'd set up two separate "quiet" areas for each dog - crates with a play pen attached are ideal. Each dog gets half an hour of intense interactive play/exercise with you in the morning, then they toilet and are put in their quiet area with their breakfast in a something they have to work out - buster cube, kong, even just an empty milk carton - and some toys. The older dog can stay there until lunchtime, you might have to get the pup out at morning tea for a toilet break but then pop them away again while you work. Then lunchtime, same - half an hour of interactive play with each dog and which can include recall and release games. Then back down for quiet time. And when it is quiet time, ignore the whinging and carrying on! I'd also work supervised play time with each other into the schedule but it has to be supervised. Find a schedule that suits you, within reason, and stick to it. You decide when play/quiet time occurs, not the other way around. Edited to add, I've probably had a fairly easy road with this as I have sighthounds, but someone with more energizer bunny breeds might be along shortly to talk about teaching "settle" to hyper dogs.

You can install a 3rd party app for Facebook called Social Fixer which has a filter by key word function. I have it set up at the moment to dump any posts with "Rudd" or "Abbott" in them. During the American election I had a similar filter. It's useful for this sort of thing. Family are tricky on the issue of polar opposite political beliefs, I suppose I'd schedule kindly inserting a clue every so often via a balanced story on your own wall but otherwise ignoring her.

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I am saying that both drink driving and deliberately breaching leash laws are selfish, irresponsible acts by those who think the 'good old days' still apply to them, and they don't have to comply with the law. Exactly. Lovely if your dog can lie down at an outdoor cafe without getting stressed or bothering anyone, but that's not the point. The point is that just as not everyone wants to be monstered by the "friendly" guy down at the local pub, not everyone wants a "friendly" dog to monster their dog either. And TBH, a lot of them are not friendly. Basic body language skills are missing even in people who call themselves dog savvy. The clueless owner calling after their stiff tailed, hard eyed, stalking dog "oh he's friendly!" is so common as to be a cliche.

There is no freaking way we are going to keep our 10 year old Afghan in full coat. He is comfortable in a clip, we don't shave him right back, but he is clipped off.

Only thing I would add is don't wait too long to administer the Alizin. If it's given soon then it's much easier on the bitch than if it's given when she is 3 or 4 weeks on. The Alizin won't prevent you having a litter from her in future. Some male dogs are very good at playing possum, one of ours convinced my OH he would be safe with the girl in season, then, bam! OH paid for the injections - there are two ;)

Agree with this. Some dog handling smarts may have prevented the injury too - tho' I know in the heat of the moment "never put your hand in the middle of a dog fight" can go out of the window in panic.

Temperament issues, especially anxiety that manifests in severe separation anxiety, reactivity and nervous problems can be as much or more of an impost on a puppy owner than a dog who has a bad parrot mouth or some other issue that people would PTS for without question. It's with you every day, with the weather forecast (are we getting storms), on walks (will they go batshit at the car/bike/other dog), when you want to go out (are they going to shred up the carpet or rip out their teeth/claws on the doorframe in terror) - and if you take them with you will they cope in the car? Sure, it's not all going to be that dire, and to an extent it can be managed with training and socialisation, but the difference between an easy dog with solid temperament and one with hard-wired issues is a major difference. It affects so many things that owners can and cannot do. It's also a reason why dogs bounce out of homes into the unwanted dog streams. Finally, it's crap for the dog too - imagine what it must be like to live with that kind of anxiety and/or stress? So I would never criticise someone for electing to PTS for temperament. Better to do it young and before the pup is in someone's home to become a source of heartbreak for them as well.

I've done this successfully but I got a local vet to draw the blood and then I used a courier company. The test lab gave full instructions for my vet on how to draw it and pack it.

So Mr Diplomat, why were you not at the super important negotiations involving the interests of a number of Australian businesses? Well you see, I had to take the dog to the vet. Really, don't you have staff to do that for you? There are a few learning opportunities in this one, but I don't think it's fair to sheet home the blame to any one person. Also, arranging to have the dog put down is far kinder than what happens in many expat/posting situations. It's not just young arab guys with too much money turfing unwanted dogs into the deserts of the middle east for example. It's easy in hindsight to have all the answers, but I bet a similar scenario finds its way onto a DFAT training course at some point in the future :D

It's certainly a lesson in getting culture issues wrong - both in terms of his dealings with the maid, and his dealings with a predominantly buddhist/taoist culture.

I think HW's advice is good and when I lived in suburbia I also used to drive to parks early in the morning to walk because there was a DA dog in our cul de sac that put one of ours in the vet. The other thing that worked for us in suburbia was to walk with a buddy, in my case, my OH, but it could be a dog savvy friend. If we encountered a problem I would take our dogs and have them behind me standing still. OH would advance on the problem situation blocking the problem dog's access to our dogs and "speaking" with the owner. You need to be dog savvy to do this, but it almost always worked. It is much easier to deal with a problem dog and their owner without worrying about controlling your dogs on leash at the same time. Ultimately tho' I really feel for you, especially as reporting loose dogs never got me anywhere - they either had to be actually attacking or injured before rangers would come out.

I never follow the pack directions, if I did my Salukis would be whales.

They would need to be a good shot, and it's suburbia even tho' some of it is reclaimed meadow now. I think finding people skilled enough to cull with guns in those circumstances would be hard.

Yes, it is weird. I also do breed rescue but all my dogs were purchased from a breeder. We sometimes get inquiries that demonstrate to me that people don't really understand what rescue means. The ones who want a cream feathered dog, good with kids and cats, not destructive or a house soiler, able to be alone all day and my favourite "not a fruitcake" - and a rescue as well. I think it would be more likely that they could adopt a unicorn ahead of a rescue Saluki with those characteristics. I love rescues, they have a lot to teach and a lot to give - but in most cases they would not be rescues if they were easy dogs.

http://www.pennlive.com/pets/index.ssf/2013/08/new_presidential_pooch_sunny_a.html Some controversy surrounds the arrival of “Sunny”, a 14-month-old Portuguese water dog, to The White House. While many well-wishers expressed delight over Bo’s playful new pal, others are outraged the President didn’t rescue a dog from a shelter. No surprise there. From the ridiculous to the absurd, I read such rants as “Are they too good to rescue a dog?” or “When the girls go off to school both dogs will be dumped on the street”, or “Great, the dog trainer's salary will be doubled - our tax dollars at work” and (my personal favorite) “You wait, they’ll breed the two just adding to pet overpopulation”. That would be a neat trick, since Bo is neutered and I’m fairly certain Sunny has been spayed. Of course others twisted it into a political maneuver which makes no sense. This is about family, plain and simple. The dogs’ quality of life and compatibility with each other, let alone family health issues and the bustling White House environment had to be considered. I’m often criticized for owning purebred Newfoundlands, even though they’re a perfect fit with our lifestyle and other pets. Guess the President and I actually have something in common. Isn’t that what we’ve had drummed into our heads over the years? To find a best friend that suits your home and lifestyle? I admire anyone who adopts in lieu of purchasing a purebred animal, but it’s not right for everyone. While I have owned rescues (including all of our cats) our home has been transformed into a haven for Newfoundlands over the years. It’s a breed we know and love to work with. Is that so wrong? Now consider what it’s like to be a dog at the White House--nonstop activity, important visitors, group tours, noisy events, and photographers endlessly snapping pictures. While the First Dogs enjoy perks and pampering beyond anyone’s imagination, the atmosphere itself would freak out any dog that lacks solid socialization. I’m familiar with both Bo and Sunny’s breeders who selectively breed fine animals and will only place pets in quality homes. Should things not work out, back they go. So, in effect, they rescue their own dogs—the hallmark of a responsible breeder. Further, Sunny's parents Henry and Slipper passed all requisite health clearances for this breed. I checked. If Obama was just a regular Joe on the street, he’d get high fives from people who realize mixing genders is a good idea, as is waiting a few years to add a second dog, so that each can be trained separately before bonding. Yesterday I spoke with a top Portuguese water dog breeder in Michigan who drove this point home. “I talk more people out of acquiring a second dog too soon and no respectable breeder would ever sell two puppies at the same time – not even to the President.” she emphasized. Daughter Malia’s allergies also influenced their decision. Yes, there are other hypoallergenic breeds out there, but the Obama’s are now familiar with the breed and knew where to acquire a well socialized, even-tempered companion for Bo. Sunny will be greeting heads of state in no time and joining Bo in his therapy rounds at Walter Reed Hospital, Children’s National Medical Center, and the annual Easter egg hunt. First Lady Michelle Obama was concerned Bo wasn’t interacting enough with other dogs. Thus, she organized a “play day” for doggie guests at the White House last year. In honor of Sunny’s arrival the Obama’s have made a donation to the Washington Humane Society (amount undisclosed). Many purebred owners, including me, support rescues either through financial donations or volunteer efforts. Breeding has become a dirty word these days thanks to people buying poorly bred dogs over the Internet and not doing their homework. Responsible hobby breeders continue to take the heat for the “bad guys.” So I give the Obamas' decision a firm paws up. Perhaps it’s no coincidence that Sunny’s co-breeder in New Jersey bred and co-owns “Matisse”, the #1 Portuguese water dog in the country, rumored to be a top Westminster contender this year. As the First Family roots for Matisse, we’ll be cheering the Newfoundland on, knowing the real Best In Show winners are lying at our feet.

She's been a public voice against those laws for a long time. There is a wider discussion in the UK about the role of the RPSCA (people have posted some articles in this forum on that) so I'd expect her to use her voice when the opportunity presents itself. I suppose the flip side view is Bryan May of Queen referring to anyone who doesn't support the laws as akin to pedophiles. Clearly the debate there has been pretty nasty for a while, given the number of criminal prosecutions and drama between the two sides. However, one person's "wildlife cruelty" is another person's hunting. If my dogs put up a rabbit or a hare in a paddock here is it less cruel because they are exotic pests and the hare hasn't been deliberately walked up? The issues people raise with the RSPCA have been raised before, sure. And usually raised within the context of a wider respect for the work that the welfare officers do on the ground. But I agree with Dickson Wright that people need to understand exactly what they are contributing money for.

Says it all. RSPCA UK's position on hare-coursing in the jurisdiction Clarissa Dickson Wright lives in. http://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaigns/wildlife/huntingact Whatever your personal views on hare coursing, it is a little weird for a regulator to be openly calling for support from the public to lobby the Government on laws it enforces. Also find it interesting that they don't distinguish between coursing and hunting. I don't think it's very sporting to release a captive animal for the purposes of coursing it, but I have no problem with hunting and open field events on the hare's own turf.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/10257255/Stop-donating-to-the-RSPCA-says-Clarissa-Dickson-Wright.html The charity has “lost its way” and now “leaves a bitter taste in the mouth” as it pursues prosecutions against people they suspect of animal cruelty, the star of Two Fat Ladies said. Her comments follow the refusal of the Archbishop of Canterbury to take up the role of vice-patron and add to the deepening row over whether the charity, which is funded by donations, has become too politicised. People should stop donating until the charity returns to helping domestic animals, she said, adding: “They have got plenty of money. “I think that it would do them no harm if people stopped donating and told them why they had stopped to see if they changed their threatening policies.” There have been calls for the RSPCA to be stripped of its prosecutor role following allegations, which it denies, that it has increased the number of cases brought to court in order to boost fundraising. In the past two years the number of convictions has almost doubled, despite no rise in complaints to the charity's animal cruelty telephone hotline. Dickson Wright, a former barrister who in 2009 was convicted of attending an illegal hare-coursing after a private prosecution by an animal charity, said that money given in good faith to the RSPCA was being spent in the wrong way. “The charity was set up, and very well set up, for the protection of domestic animals,” she said. “Now they spend money that comes from people who in many cases are hard pushed to come up with it, old ladies and things like that, in prosecuting hunts, prosecuting people who they think are trapping foxes, people who are keeping out rabbits. “They are not concentrating on what they should be doing, on what they do well. It has been taken over by the politicos at the top.” Dickson Wright, who said that foxes are “essentially vermin” and rabbits are responsible for the majority of landslides, added: “I think they set out to do good and they should get back to what they are supposed to be doing.” A champion of country sports, she knows people who have been refused rescue animals because they support hunting, and respectable men who have had their doors knocked down by the police at 4am on the say so of the charity, she claims. The cook, who once received death threats from animal rights campaigners, added that former donors have written to her expressing their disillusion with the RSPCA. “I got endless correspondence from little old ladies,” she said. "They told me that they had known idea that this is what they were using their money for, rather than rescuing donkeys or saving dogs, and they wouldn’t have wanted them to use it in this way.” The RSPCA deny that they are becoming politicised, and say that they have been prosecuting people for cruelty to animals since they were established in 1824. "On a daily basis, our inspectors see unimaginable cruelty to animals across the country. In the vast majority of cases they provide advice and guidance but in a tiny minority of cases - less than 2 per cent of the complaints of cruelty dealt with by them - legal action is necessary," a spokesperson said. "Our inspectors receive the overwhelming support of the public for this work. To suggest these hard-working officers are pursuing a political agenda is frankly offensive to the work they are undertaking." Dickson Wright's comments were supported by the Countryside Alliance, who claim that the animal welfare organisation has become, under its current leadership, "a political campaigning organisation with a militant animal rights agenda which is using the prosecuting system as a weapon to promote its political campaigns" Executive chairman Barney White-Spunner added: “It is wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds a year on political prosecutions and campaigns which do little, if anything, to improve animal welfare. I am sure those people who donate or leave legacies to the RSPCA don’t expect their money to be wasted on playing political games. “People should consider whether their money would be better used by other animal charities or even the RSPCA’s local branches which are self-funding, separate charities that continue to focus on their role in rescuing neglected and abandoned animals.”

Picture at the article in this link. I'm no terrier expert but it doesn't look like a Jack to me, looks more like a Mini Foxie? http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/82-dogs-rescued-from-property-20130822-2se0m.html

I suspect any mass culling of dogs would present a significant political problem in the US. Tho' honestly in this case it sounds like it's what is required. And at the least some funding for euth and rangers would help.

Oh, that's been around for years - it's called a brain. But it does get tiring filtering all that BS out, I do agree!! :laugh: Oh I don't want to filter it, I just want it jammed automagically :D