lovemesideways

Dear god... Well, I guess you could say I certainly have a "personal vendetta" against idiots who give advice such as "choke you dog and I guarantee it will fix all their issues with aggression and make them perfect" on an internet forum. If by personal vendetta you mean, will not stand for people offering such "advice" on a public pet dog owners forum. Since I have personally seen, as has poodlefan, the affects of a GSD bite on someone who corrected them inappropriately, in my case it was someone following advice to hang their dog on the lead. Not only is it stupid advice to give, it is actually incredibly dangerous.

;) I'll have to try this on Riddick and Rover. I tried just dropping a blanket over them. Rover shook it off in a few seconds. Riddick wandered around vaguely, still covered by blanket, bumped into a wall, lay down, and fell asleep. Still covered by blanket

I actually joined a month ago and popped in today for a read, this thread I found interesting and I decided to make a post for two reasons. Whatever you say buddy.

Well Garry (such a coincidence you've only just joined, and your first post is defending Fiona?) I certainly wouldn't let someone like Fiona, who thinks she can analyse a dog and give appropriate advice for aggression over the Internet, anywhere near my dogs or any of my friends dogs. Since lets see, my friends GSD who suddenly started becoming very snappy and growling at dogs and people. I'm sure she would have just slipped a check chain on him and gone to work "air blocking" the crap out of that dog. Oh but woops that the dog actually have a tumour growing on his spine, which when removed he went straight back to his loveable self. Obviously you don't need to ask any questions though. If someone asks for advice on stopping an aggressive dog, just choke them right?

Because Fiona implied that she knew best and that her method was a surefire guarantee to work. And it was potentially very dangerous. When folk start sprouting their credentials, its time to step in and provide some cautionary advice. By all means provide some cautionary advice, I don't disagree with that at all. But there has been a lot more than that going on in this thread ... more like flaming IMO PF, just saw your edit. In Fionas defence she did state in the same quote; "I have layed it on the line with a process that will stop the dog's aggression instantly and allow her to control the situation until she has the opportunity to seek professional help and I make no apologies for that" To me it seems that she has suggested it more as a way to get a handle on the dog in an emergency situation, not as a cure all. Fiona has consistently reiterated her magical cure all of choking a dog the entire way through this thread. Doesn't matter that I mentioned as did Poodlefan that we both know people who have had pieces ripped out of them, when they tried to correct a GSD. No mention of the fact the dog needs to be on a flat collar (Im assuming). So good thing the OP, who walks her dog on a gentle leader, didn't give this a shot. Wow I'm sure the hundreds of trainers who work daily with aggressive dogs will LOVE to know that if you simply choke a dog, it fixes all aggression problems!! Again recommending without any previous knowledge of the dog or owner, Choke your dog. Apparently just because the dog is a GSD, fiona can understand everything about it. Doesn't matter that behaviour is never explained by breed alone. And again, she knows everything based on a couple paragraphs. And yet, she didn't know that the OP has back problems that could act up severly if she was trying to string a large male GSD into the air to choke him.

Last time I checked, a puppy "learning to be tough" and a "hardened aggressor" bite remarkably similarly. In recent weeks there have been one of two people dispensing "correct 'em hard' advice about dealing with aggresson on this forum with apparent disregard to the potential danger that may place a handler in. Please stop it. No professional worth their salt would do it. A dog's behavior cannot be explained by breed alone and in my opinion what you are doing is downright dangerous. Aggression is NOT breed specific behaviour. If it was, then breed specific legislation might actually be worthwhile. As I posted, I have seen a GSD turn on its handler when checked off a dog. Not every dog will tolerate being jerked around and your advice could get someone seriously hurt. :D I didn't recommend a "check" Poodlefan, that's why they redirect because the corrrection is half hearted, more an agitation. Dog's can't redirect during an air block and is the exact correction or saftey measure if you like for a handler aggressive dog that comes back up the leash. I am intersted to know if you have ever trained and handled an aggressive dog Fiona The guy I met, whos dog bit a chunk out of his arm. Tried to "air block" the dog (A full grown male GSD). Lifted him up, 2 front paws of the ground, dog panicked, flipped himself around and latched onto his owners arm. Bullshit a dog can't redirect when you choke them.

I wouldn't expect you to understand where I am coming from which only experience provides that wisdom. You can and I do dish out advice with breed specific behaviour that I am extremely familiar with and the OP's situation is one of those. Timing of the correction was detailed more than once of you read my posts properly. If you believe that a 12 month old intact male GSD may have a medical condition causing this behaviour is a testament of someone lacking breed knowledge and experience to suggest something so left of centre It's virtually still a puppy learning how to be tough, not a hardened aggressor that everyone wants to quiver in their boots over, I don't need to see the dog, it's common adolecent GSD behaviour, albiet can escalate to serious aggression over the next 6 months or so if allowed to continue. Fiona Seriously pull your head out of wherever its stuck and realise how dangerous giving that kind of advice is on a public forum! Are you going to pay the medical or vet bills if some idiot who has no idea follows your "advice"? So just because its highly unlikely means it is impossible the dog would have a medical issue? I'm sure you realise, being so experienced and filled with knowledge, that dogs can get sick? Even GSDs? And that there are rare medical issues that can create aggression? Or even common ones such as joint problems. I know its obviously highly unlikely, so is winning the lottery but I know someone who did. Just because something is highly unlikely, doesn't mean its impossible. I was trying to pick something "left of centre" to point out the fact that you cannot judge a dog until you have met that dog. The fact you "laughed", just shows your ignorance. As far as not having "Breed experience" goes, my family has always owned GSDs until our current dogs. None of which ever had problems . and Sure I'll give advice, I'm never stupid enough to recommend anything for a dog with aggressive issues, because, Once Again. You do not know the dog or the owner. Last time I checked, a puppy "learning to be tough" and a "hardened aggressor" bite remarkably similarly. In recent weeks there have been one of two people dispensing "correct 'em hard' advice about dealing with aggresson on this forum with apparent disregard to the potential danger that may place a handler in. Please stop it. No professional worth their salt would do it. A dog's behavior cannot be explained by breed alone and in my opinion what you are doing is downright dangerous. Aggression is NOT breed specific behaviour. If it was, then breed specific legislation might actually be worthwhile. As I posted, I have seen a GSD turn on its handler when checked off a dog. Not every dog will tolerate being jerked around and your advice could get someone seriously hurt. I've also seen the chunk a GSD ripped out of his owners arm after being hung on a lead. At least I'm not alone in thinking that dealing out this kind of advice is down right dangerous.

I've seen dogs go from "bad" to "ticking time-bomb" in experienced hands, but more frighteningly, "bad" to "freaking insane" and the trainer had no idea they had made matters worse and actually believed they had done a good job. No personal insight at all. Basically it went from a mildly aggressive dog, to a dog that at the very sight of a dog across a street whilst sitting in the back of car, the dog would explode and try and rip its way to the dog to kill it. Definitely scary stuff what a bad trainer can do to a dog. +1 Are you for real? I would be seriously careful about ever recommending negative reinforcement in a situation like this where all you have is what the owner has said. You don't know why the dog is doing it and what reaction that dog will have to a correction of such force. Recommending anyone to hang a dog in the air by their lead is seriously not on! Hi Lovemesideways, This situation the OP has asked for help with is a serious one. When you reach the stage of aggression when you are pulling dogs apart to stop a fight especially a large dog with traits to have a real go against a small dog that can be easily killed with one decent chomp, the situation needs to be dealt with fast, and what I have recommended will fix it. In fact, a couple of air blocks is usually enough to stop an aggressive lunger altogether and provide a calmer and safer environment to work with other methods of redirection and conditioning. I respect the opinions of people who have no experience dealing with the effects of aggression simply because they wouldn't know what to do or how to apply an emergency proceedure other than rushing a dog to the vets with pieces missing off it which is often then too late, or taking the aggressive dog to the vets for a one way trip because they can't handle it, or they employ the assistance of trainers who can't handle it either. It's not until you are faced with aggression, living with it and absorbing the anxiety that comes with it, can anyone really understand what it feels like and until you have experienced this for yourself and rehabilitated this behaviour successfully as I have many times over, your opinion of the situation from my perspective has no relevence whatsoever. We can all respond with geez RockDog, that's really nasty and we feel for you and get a behaviourist in which is no help to her as we speak, I have layed it on the line with a process that will stop the dog's aggression instantly and allow her to control the situation until she has the opportunity to seek professional help and I make no apologies for that Fiona Nice that you assume I have no experience. Well assume what you will. I'm not saying hanging a dog wouldn't be effective, so is kicking a dog when they're bad you must adore Brad Pattison then! I still don't think you see the seriousness of recommending responses like that over the internet. Don't you have Any idea what a wrongly timed correction can do to an aggressive dog? Go read click to calm, has a good description of what happened to the writers dog after being send to a trainer who hung the dog on a prong collar. Dog went from bad to freaking insane. You have literally no idea why this dog is reacting this way, yes we can assume based on what's been written, but geez how do you know the dog doesn't have a medical issue? Or there is just some random factor that the owner hasn't realised? You don't, because, you, haven't, met, the, dog. I have no problem using corrections if they're appropriate to a situation. Recommending someone hang a dog by a lead and it will magically fix every problem is ridiculous and incredibly dangerous. Saying, hey make sure you find a trainer that has experience with aggression, keep your dog away from small dogs. Make sure the interactions are done with a muzzle whilst on lead at all times untill you can sort it out because a GSDs bite can kill a little dog no problem. I don't consider that pussy footing around, I call it the safest response you can give to something like this over the internet. Guess I just care more that the OP gets actual help and doesn't come back saying "Hey I did the hanging thing, my dog freaked out and latched onto my arm. I had to get 25 stitches and he got put down. Thanks." That one, thats one I've heard, and seen the scar. Luckily they came to one of my trainer friends with their next dog when it started going to same route as the first and almost killed their cat. Lovemesideways, After 20 years experience owning, training and handling dogs of genetic aggression and successfully rehabilitating dogs of this nature into worthy pets, you do tend to learn something about the behaviour and how to manage it through practical experience which is one of my specialty interests. My backyard has a working line GSD and Belgian Malinois as part of the scenery when speaking of experience does yours???. Fiona Gee golly wow!! 20 years experience means you can confidently asses and dish out advice for any dog from a few paragraphs on the Internet!?!?! You must be a millionaire !!! and I quote. "I still don't think you see the seriousness of recommending responses like that over the internet. Don't you have Any idea what a wrongly timed correction can do to an aggressive dog?" "You have literally no idea why this dog is reacting this way, yes we can assume based on what's been written, but geez how do you know the dog doesn't have a medical issue? Or there is just some random factor that the owner hasn't realised? You don't, because, you, haven't, met, the, dog."

Are you for real? I would be seriously careful about ever recommending negative reinforcement in a situation like this where all you have is what the owner has said. You don't know why the dog is doing it and what reaction that dog will have to a correction of such force. Recommending anyone to hang a dog in the air by their lead is seriously not on! Hi Lovemesideways, This situation the OP has asked for help with is a serious one. When you reach the stage of aggression when you are pulling dogs apart to stop a fight especially a large dog with traits to have a real go against a small dog that can be easily killed with one decent chomp, the situation needs to be dealt with fast, and what I have recommended will fix it. In fact, a couple of air blocks is usually enough to stop an aggressive lunger altogether and provide a calmer and safer environment to work with other methods of redirection and conditioning. I respect the opinions of people who have no experience dealing with the effects of aggression simply because they wouldn't know what to do or how to apply an emergency proceedure other than rushing a dog to the vets with pieces missing off it which is often then too late, or taking the aggressive dog to the vets for a one way trip because they can't handle it, or they employ the assistance of trainers who can't handle it either. It's not until you are faced with aggression, living with it and absorbing the anxiety that comes with it, can anyone really understand what it feels like and until you have experienced this for yourself and rehabilitated this behaviour successfully as I have many times over, your opinion of the situation from my perspective has no relevence whatsoever. We can all respond with geez RockDog, that's really nasty and we feel for you and get a behaviourist in which is no help to her as we speak, I have layed it on the line with a process that will stop the dog's aggression instantly and allow her to control the situation until she has the opportunity to seek professional help and I make no apologies for that Fiona Nice that you assume I have no experience. Well assume what you will. I'm not saying hanging a dog wouldn't be effective, so is kicking a dog when they're bad you must adore Brad Pattison then! I still don't think you see the seriousness of recommending responses like that over the internet. Don't you have Any idea what a wrongly timed correction can do to an aggressive dog? Go read click to calm, has a good description of what happened to the writers dog after being send to a trainer who hung the dog on a prong collar. Dog went from bad to freaking insane. You have literally no idea why this dog is reacting this way, yes we can assume based on what's been written, but geez how do you know the dog doesn't have a medical issue? Or there is just some random factor that the owner hasn't realised? You don't, because, you, haven't, met, the, dog. I have no problem using corrections if they're appropriate to a situation. Recommending someone hang a dog by a lead and it will magically fix every problem is ridiculous and incredibly dangerous. Saying, hey make sure you find a trainer that has experience with aggression, keep your dog away from small dogs. Make sure the interactions are done with a muzzle whilst on lead at all times untill you can sort it out because a GSDs bite can kill a little dog no problem. I don't consider that pussy footing around, I call it the safest response you can give to something like this over the internet. Guess I just care more that the OP gets actual help and doesn't come back saying "Hey I did the hanging thing, my dog freaked out and latched onto my arm. I had to get 25 stitches and he got put down. Thanks." That one, thats one I've heard, and seen the scar. Luckily they came to one of my trainer friends with their next dog when it started going to same route as the first and almost killed their cat.

Are you for real? I would be seriously careful about ever recommending negative reinforcement in a situation like this where all you have is what the owner has said. You don't know why the dog is doing it and what reaction that dog will have to a correction of such force. Recommending anyone to hang a dog in the air by their lead is seriously not on!

We paid more than $800 for both our labs. I could have gone to quite a few different breeders and gotten a different dog for less money. Money wasn't what I was looking for though. I wanted these specific dogs from these specific lines. Just because someone is selling their dog for more does not mean they're in it for the money. And because someone wants to pay more than $800 for a dog doesn't mean they're ignorant.

Oh labradors need to eat do they? that must be why mine is so small you missed out lovemesideways becasue mine is defiantly hyperallergenic! "I am DEFIANTly hyperallergenic, how dare you question my non shedding abilities scoundrel!"

My labbrOdArs just eat way too much!!!! Its liek SOooo bad omG Do yous guys haves some kind of lab cross-thing that doesn't really eat much? oh and with hypoallergieniccc superduper non shedding hair too! BTW Deshonko, my mums sisters auntys dogs uncles previous owners daughters best friend sister told me that like, dogs need to be like, tetstedd or like, somethin, for thier Heatllh. Do yuo gyus do taht?

What a scary situation! Glad you're both ok. If you want some positive interaction with big dogs I'm happy for her to meet my 2 Labradors. Rover is a pet therapy dog, he goes to visit the childrens hospital regularly. Riddick is also lovely (hes 9 months old so still a bit of a puppy)

This is a bit OT but, I just want to say Well Done! ;) Good on you for being responsible, listening to advice and contacting Steve. We see too many people come on here, "ask advice", but when told something they don't want to hear, they go off at everyone. God knows where they or their dogs end up.

My friend has a fabulous Poodle named Bandit. Very good name ;) I've been quietly stalking your thread. So happy you took the puppy !

How do we go about changing something like this? It is a law I would love to see enforced. But this and several other laws are so hard to report.

Its so sad that a lovely dog lost his life over his owners stupidity Rover loved playing with Cooper, they where almost the same age, grew up together hanging out at the local park.

Cooper the Sharpei had been walked by his owners with no leash or collar since he was about 6 months. For 2 years they had no problems with this, his recall was great, he always stuck close to them and never wandered off. A few weeks ago, the wife was walking Cooper down along side a busy road, when something caught his attention and for the first time and last time in his life, he ran out into the road. He got hit by a car and died. Please do not walk your dog without a lead anywhere near a road. Even if they have the worlds greatest heel and have never ever left your side. All it takes is one mistake

I forgot that there is a lot of friction between breeders and as soon as you mention $$$ per pup the horns come out so my bad. I learnt from breeding years ago that no matter how nice a breeder is to you while at a show pretend to be a customer and ask them about your dogs and you will see what I mean. Any way if i only cared about the money i would have 4 OC bitches and cull them off after the litteres due to them being unmanageable due to the extended wait in customs so no I'm not in it for the money i just love both breeds and would like to be able to share it with other dog lovers. I'm going to look at importing in the next 12 months. I've just been layed off of work and need a new hobby to keep me busy. So you aren't working and want to spend thousands upon thousands to import a dog? As a new "hobby". You do know it costs a LOT right? But obviously you aren't in it for the money, cause if you wanted to make money you would get 4 OC females, breed them, and then kill them. (because they're so vicious and unmanagable after being cooped up for 30 days) this is after you breed them and sell all the puppies. .... ... Right.

I use it as an interruptor and a cue and a marker. It's good for short range. If I need longer range I have emergency recalls. The nice thing about clickers or markers is it doesn't take long to get a good conditioned response. It took about a year to get a good reliable recall through conditioning for Kivi. In contrast, I tried with the marker a couple of months after I introduced it in training and it was very effective then. I am sorry Corvus, but that sounds like a recipe for confusion for a dog. I just cannot fathom how using the clicker as three seperate things is conducive with training that is precise and clear to a dog. There are so many other things to use as a cue. For myself the clicker is a marker that is it. I do have a verbal "go on" signal but that is it. For a cue, such as "focus we are training" is a verbal word. Hey, the web is full of people that adore the Look At That game for how effective it has been. The proof is, as you say, in the pudding. A clicker acts as an interruptor even in clicker training shaping sessions. That's why the click marks the end of the behaviour. And the first time a clicker is heard for a while, it acts as a cue that training is now occurring, regardless of where you are or what your intention was, unless you are in the habit of only clicking once or twice and then putting the clicker away. The LAT game and other similar uses for the clicker are not changing the meaning of a click. They are just acknowledging and exploiting the various meanings a click already has. I don't see how a clicker is an interrupter? When I think interrupter, I think something you do to stop or interrupt a behaviour. Like if you have a dog that is about to start lunging at another dog, and you make a big loud stupid noise and turn around to walk the other way. That noise and spin interrupts the lunging behaviour. I played the "look at that" game with riddick. A click was never a way to interrupt him looking at something. It was a way for me to mark what I wanted him to do. Which was go towards people and to want to go towards people. I then put the behaviour on cue "Go say Hi!". So it became, I would see a person, "Riddick, go say hi!" Riddick would go towards them. Click and then reward. Maybe I'm just confused, can someone explain it better for me?

You gotta realise people aren't having a go at you. As far as you go as a person, most people here don't even care. What they (we) are thinking about, is the puppy, and only the puppy. So it's not a personal attack if someone says "Don't do that it is bad for your puppy!" its just their idea based on previous experiences. (Which quite often, considering the broadness that is DOL, is breeding litters, raising and training dogs.) Imagine if you ignored peoples comments here simply because you feel like they're insulting your intelligence or something. Then your puppy gets parvo and dies. Very "doom and gloom" I know, but considering how awful parvo is, its not far from the truth.

Riddick has only ever humped one thing. A big tan dog toy, when he was younger, and it wasn't so much a humping of the toy, as a air humping in excitement at the super squeaky toy. I laughed and poked him in the side. He looked very suprised, so I wonder if he actually realised he was doing it. His bits occasionally hang out when he gets excited. Mum will say "Put your lipstick away riddick!"

Happy birthday!!

Why was the dog chained? Why where a 7 and 9 year old feeding a dog that has unknown history? She could have fallen across his food bowl for all we know. At least they still went on to rescue another dog though, and the girl is ok.