Jumabaar

Oh no TerraNik I am so sorry to hear that. I know exactly how you are feeling as I don't think Kynan and I will make it either. Last week Kynan started limping on his back right leg so I rested him for a week and took him out again this morning and he is still limping. It's very disappointing with only three weeks to go after all the work we have put in. I am very proud that we got up to 12 km. My boy just doesn't have the conformation to go any further and it would be cruel to push him. Lots of tears during the past week I am thinking of going to the ET without Kynan and taking my bike so I can be a reserve rider in case anyone gets hurt or needs a break. It would be great to be able to help someone else out. I have gone as a reserve a few times now! I had a reserve when I did it with abby and it makes the riders feel much better! Even knowing there is a spare bike incase chains break etc. Its sad Kynan cant do it but we have had some dogs pushed when I was vetting and it was clear that they were struggeling physically to make it and I was dissapointed that the vet did not pull them and even more dissapointed that their owners were oblivious and didnt pull the dog themselves- so you have proved that you are awear of your dogs welfare!!

Where are you located- there may be some recomenations for an obedience club or a small get together!! ETA-It probably isnt worth going back- it would almost be better for him not to have contact with any dogs in comparison to having contact with dogs that are going to scare him!!

Abby at the age of 5 recognises her breeder!! He only has to say something about 100m away (and out of site) and she will go nuts. She also knows a certain line of dogs and dislikes them all- all bred by the same person although not all owned by her. She doesnt seem to reconise any of her K9 family but once she has decided a dog or human is "pack" they are instantantly recognised- even after four years of not seeing them!!

Let me know when you make it to castle hill- I like naughty drivy dogs lol!! We can comiserate about the traffic together!!!!

Ooooh that reminds me- SUNGLASSES. I dont wear sunglasses when I do dog training but do most other places...... It seems that all the dogs have come to conclusion that if I have no sunglasses I wont go out with out them and So I have not had a pair last more than about 8mths since I got abby 5 yrs ago (although I know it has not always been abby that has destroyed them!)

Demi REALLY REALLY REALLY likes anything in high places!! My stuff on the floor never gets touched- shoes, clothes, study notes nothing. Put the same object up on a sideboard or table and its and AMAZING toy!!!! Food on the floor doesnt get touched- food on the bench gets stollen!!! Honestly she is making me messy (not a hard task) and I can never catch her doing it! She can even get onto the TV cabnet which is about 1.5m high and nothing around to use as a leg up....................

It might be better to do some one on one training to get ontop of you issues- give you some strategies and then go to a club. I would suggest Castle Hill on a Tuesday night. I went to Bankstown with My Kelpie (who WAS uncontrollable) a few years ago and I really got no help at all! I was told by a member (NOT a club official or trainer) that if she had a dog as bad as mine she wouldnt ever take it out!! I think i left the week after. Now she is almost ready to compete in OB!Also their agility is not very good at all!! Castle Hill on the other hand is much more interested in getting your dog to focus first THEN move through obedieance. Whereas bankstown we just keep walking and doing work with them regardless of how they are behaving which really doesnt solve anything. I am only 2 minutes away from bankstown but still make the drive to Castle Hill!! I participate in class but as soon as my dogs get distracted I can move away and dont feel like I am interrupting the flow or getting in the way. Hope this helps! ETA +1 for K9Pro. Anther of my dogs was lunging and barking at people and he has helped so much!! Instead of trying to squash drive he will use it to solve the problem which will give you the framework to do dog sports

I also think it depends how seriously they take their training and how often you get to compete! I have ditched my old club that was 20minutes away to drive 50minute through peak hr to another club. And I would do the same for agility if it were not on the same night as flyball!! Flyballers dont have all that many comps so we are more prepared to travel than somone who competes in agility or obedience for example. The people who are very involved in OB and agility will travel vast differences (across australia to compete) so I guess how seriously you take it is the biggest factor. And i guess that is the current level of competition here in australia....... PS flyball now has matting to have indoor comps for anyone who is thinking about having indoor training areas so dont forget to advertise to flyballers too!!

DID EVERYONE SEE- I GOT IT IN WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It will be quite a Lappie fest- I am pretty sure that Snofyre is going to that one (and that there are two little flufs making their debut!). So you will really get to see both ends of the Temperament Spectrum! Damn my exams- I really wanted to enter that show too!!

I know it would be amazing for flyball too!! Our comps get rained out during winter and often it is just too hot in summer. Maybe one day!!

Awwwwww what a cutie!!

I think you did talk to some- the big group with Lapphunds, Kelpie and Sibe early in the day!! and Keeshond!!! ;) Opps

I think you did talk to some- the big group with Lapphunds, Kelpie and Sibe early in the day!! :D It was nice meeting up with you lovemesideways- Abby really seemed to like you and that is a big tick for anyone lol!! And Riddick was gorgeous!!!!

hmmmmmm like the time my Kelpie got into the dry dog food. She looked awfully fat and thew up a massive load of dry food and dissapeared (I was concerned that there was that much in her stomach so long after eating- imagining blockage etc). Found her back eating the dry food that she had just made space for by throwing up!! Beat that lab people!! Myth: Kelpies are crazy, destroy everything, dont cope will with being confined, need 10 hrs of exercise daily and shouldnt be kept in the suburbs. Myth: that ribs on any dog is a sign that they are anorexic!! Next to me lie 3 kelpies that have not been for a walk yet today and are all curled up on my bed asleep and will remain that way until i tell them its time to work. And if kelpies didnt cope being confined what the hell are all those farmers doing tethering their dogs or keeping them in runs when they are not working lol!!

The six montly check up is more for pet owners who quite often are not awear completely of thier pets health. At these checkups the vet can ensure that the animal is not overweight (well more vets need to be more honest and more owners need to be reaslistic!!), check for any lumps that may indicate cancer, skin problems that the owner is not aware of, dental issues- so that they can all be caught early so that they can be treated or prevented. So i guess that means that the 6mth check up is not REALLY aimed at DOLers who on average would be grooming/feeling their dog regularly, be awear of their generalhealth etc. I think it has alot of potential in the profession becoming more about disease prevention rather than just treatment!! Mine dont go 6mthly as I am a vet student and all of my dogs have to suffer regular physical exams, and neuro exams and any other exam you can do on a healthy animal lol!!

In my houshold I have to say that BED size is currently more of an issue. I currently sleep with three Kelpies in my SINGLE bed!! Plus my Lapphund has decided its getting too cold and is hopping up to!! The only dog outside is the Lapphund- the Kelpies are all back on the bed snoozing. Occasionally they go out by themselves but 95% of the day is on my bed. They do agility, flyball, obediance and are shown which is far more exciting to them than being out in the back yard. And since my mum got a new place with a bigger back yard I have been getting more injuries- uncontrolled zoomies is not always a good thing i have realised!! So ultimatly- when I move out i will be looking for rooms that can accomidate a king sized bed rather than a big yard

Flygility! My girls two favourite sports in one!!

Because the ongoing cost of the bitch is part of the cost of breeding a litter. You need to factor in things like entry fees for shows, trials etc that are part of proving your bitch is worth breeding from. ETA the average pet isn't DNA tested as new tests become available, hip and elbow scored, yearly eye and other health tests etc that are carried out on breeding dogs. Ok, so what are the costs for shows, etc per year? If the bitch has a littler of 10 pups each time she is bred that's a fair amount of money. I have always wondered about this so would be keen to know the answer depends on which show and how many shows. There are also things like memberships, council fees for breeding licences ect that vary greatly from place to place. Also, the going rate for a puppy varies greatly between breeds and often within breeds. Some states have different requirements for selling pups such as mandatory microchipping. You also might find the stud fees vary a really good dog might cost more to use, or you could be importing semen and have to cover storage fees ect. heck, you might be importing dogs for your breeding program and that runs to well over $10000 in most cases - perhaps you had to fly your dog to meet a stud in another state so add that cost on top too. You begin to see why for so many people this is considered a passionate hobby and not a business. Ok, so if someone was selling pups for say $1500 each and there were 10 in the litter, and they had their own stud dog so no fee there. That would be a total of $15,000 per litter (according to regulations 1 per year). How would a breeder spend that much (minus expenses) in one year on showing, training, vet checks, etc. In all honesty how many breeds that are likely to whelp ten in a litter are also breeds where your average pet pup is sold for $15000? For me to whelp a litter I 1) bought my foundation bitch 2) fed, vaccinated, wormed her 3) Payed miscilanous other vet bills 4) joined my State Canine controling body 5) applied for a prefix 6) traveled interstate 4 times to decied on stud dogs/got advice 7) Joined OB club, agility club, flyball club, herding club, tracking club inorder to show my dogs potential against set guidlines. Also then eneterd many different comps in these disciplins 8) Showed her weekly ($10.00 per show 2-3 shows per weekend) 9) Vet check for helth prior to mating 10) bloods to test for correct time of mating 11) Payed stud fees 12) Wormed, Vaccinaed, fed puppies 13) bought crate and puppy pen for puppies 14) forked out over $1000 on vet bills to save my own pup That is the BARE minimum that I can think of off the top of my head that I had to pay for to produce ONE litter. They were Kelpies and I can let you know that the pups (only 5 in the litter) were sold for less than $1000. Also while I was raising these pups I had to take time of from work (uni studnet so Thats quite hard for me to do!!) so technically I should also factor in a wage to the above cost as well!! How many of these costs do the irresponsible breeders rack up? and yet sell their pups for far far more than I could even imagin. To answer your question I am probably out of pocket will over the $15000 you belive I make in profit as a breeder. Over a number of litters I would expect that overhead to come down somewhat if I bred every year- but then profit would go back into importing new lines and even potentially into research into health problems within the breed. However since she will only have one more litter I doubt that it will make much difference because you have to pay it all again for the next generation! Once again what do the irresponsible breeders contribute toward the health research- appart from affected dogs to study!!!!

I would be up for a spitz meet!! And I think there might be a lappie picnic happening soon too!!

I think the profession needs to step up and focus on some generic business things like professional service and communication. It's not enough to just say 'we'll do everything', clients need to know what the options are, the difference between them and they need to make the decisions based on correct information. They need to know what the forms say. We need to dot the I's and cross T's and document everything. If people want a little of column A and little of column B, they can have it. If something is 'necessary' it no longer becomes optional (in an ideal world). Necessary means I will not proceed without it. Some things are highly desirable (such as blood work) in many situations but we are regularly put in situations where we have to get the best outcome we can within in a set $$ limit. Do we spend the money on our best guess treatment that might not work? Do we spend the money on diagnostic tests? Do we get some basic information to do some rule outs and then go with treatment? Vets makes the decisions about whether there is an option A, B and C and we are advocates for the welfare of the patients but we are not the one paying the bills. Clients need to know what the options are, what the benefit or risk of each is, the cost of each etc etc. It's not enough to just say 'most young dogs don't need a preanaesthetic test so we wont discuss them' because there will one day be the case where something DOES go wrong and it will probably happen to someone who said 'I didn't know I could have a test done'..... I get what you're saying Rappie, I just don't think that clients really do need to know all that. I agree - communication is hugely important and I think that's what kept us from going in the way of packages. Our clients trust their animals in the hands of our vet entirely - they know he's the professional and leave it up to him as to what needs to be done. There are no options to them because it's just done if it needs to be. If we think something looks a little pale prior to surgery, we'll do a PCV. We communicate with the owners, the path labs and make a decision whether or not to proceed. If pressure drops too much during surgery then we run in fluids and do whatever else needs to be done. I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't like the idea of owners having to make those decisions, particularly when cost is involved. There is already such a problem with people thinking vet fees are too high, so how is it improving the image of the industry by letting owners chose what treatment they have, based on what they can afford. The fact that pain relief is offered in some of these packages seems wrong to me too. And in so many cases, the only pain relief they get is a shot of Metacam or Rimadyl etc, which really, isn't that much different than giving them an aspirin. So what's the point in that really? If you're going to offer pain relief, atleast make it an opioid which will actually make a difference. But really, it should just be included as part of the surgery cost. Like I said, I'm not opposed to doing all these pre anaesthetic tests at all. I talk about it with my boss every week and it's something we'll probably start doing once we've upgraded our inhouse machine. But it will never be part of a package and never be something that a client will have to decide on or not. The cost of surgery will likely just go up to account for the extra test and we will explain to clients exactly what the price involves. In all honesty without letting the client know the full range of options before a surgery takes place have you really gotten 'informed concent' for the surgery? if you have not got informed concent doesnt this then allow the client to make a complaint against the vet if something goes wrong? Particularly if it may have been solved by an option that was not offered because the veternarian decided that it was not necessary to bother the client with? I dont agree with packages as such, but ultimatly it is an easy way to present some difficult concepts to clients and base your recomendations. I would prefer if they were not called gold, silver, bronze because it can influence the client into being guilted into doing gold for the sake of it. Personaly I would chose to do bloods, have pain relief, full induction and fluids during any surgery. In the past I have had a vet decide what I could afford and did not offer me full treatment for one of my pets. I didnt know this at the time however I do know now- and I dont go back to that vet anymore...... They were not ethical in my opinion!! And thats what it comes down to- clients have a right to make decisions for thier own dog. Many clients will just accept what the vet says but if you dont give them the option you are taking away their rights!! Some clinics are now recomending regular bloods be taken as part of the yearly health check. Not necessary but as the industry changes and pet owners expect more from their vet I think these types of packages may become more common because companion animals are becoming much more than what they once were. I really like the packages that you mention Rappie!!

Krabbe disease is also found in Kelpies- and a genetic marker has been found!!! It has similar clinical signs to Cerebellar Aboitrophy (also known as Cerebellar Ataxia for anyone who decides to google) athough has only been shown in working lines. Blood was used from the Cerebellar Aboitrophy study to find the Krabbe disease. CA has been found in both working and show lines and a joint effort is being made to help Dr Allan Wilton to find a marker so that we can test for this disease. Also CA in kelpies should take at least 6wks to become apparant. I think its very scary- I am contemplating a litter in the new yr and am flying blind with regards to CA!! Yes shortstep- I have heard of a few Kelpies with HD. ALthough it is also interesting to read an article (I wish I could find the darn thing again) that the hips of working dogs should be a good fit but they posed that they should have slightly more elasticity than other breeds due to the nature of thier work- twisting and turning. Not sure if I completely believe it but it raised some interesting points.......

Cute pup!! I would also suggest clicker training. If you search "101 things to do with a box" it will come up with a game that will get your pup thinking and focusing on you. Focus is the biggest thing with kelpies- if they are completely focused on you they are amazing. When you go to obediance watch for your pup getting bored and do a few tricks or just do a half session- otherwise they work out how to be very naughty for attention (but so very cute)!!! Good luck- it sounds like you will have a great dog. Heaps off ppl say that kelpies are nutters but mine are all bed/lounge hogs and its only when I tell them they are working that they turn on!! Good luck.

I am a breeder and have an undesexed 'PET'. She will never be anything more than a pet (well hopefully she will do dog sports). I keep her with my other entire bitches- yep they have seasons but really except for moving my entire male to my mum and grandmothers there is no big issue. By your reasoning she should have to be desexed because she is a pet rather than a breeding dog.... I dont see why a responsible pet owner would not be able to deal with In reality seasons are really not that bad- Not all bitches will have temp changes and I wouldnt even know when all but one of my girls are on season because they are clean freaks!! So shy can't someone keep their pet the way they want so long as they have been properly educated??

I also suggest a chiro. Kelpies don't show pain often ( they don't stop till they are exhausted!) and so when they do limp I take mine off to the chiro. I have had to rest one of my kelpies for a month because she has strained her wrists jumping around. It's been hard but worth it!! At 7 mths I would try playing hide and seek with food and doing some obedience to keep her amused.