Steve

Are you adding anything at all to the supercoat? Is that the ONLY thing he is eating?

So here is the question - according to this crap code you are considered a small business if you have 5 or less dogs - if husband and wife live on the same property can they own 5 dogs each and each be considered small business ? If husband and wife , son and daughter are all Vic dogs members and all live on the same property can they own 9 dogs each and not have to worry about the crap code?

My link NSW Election 2015: Animal Justice Party wins seat in NSW Upper House Updated 54 minutes ago PHOTO: Animal Justice Party candidate Mark Pearson has won an Upper House seat. (Animal Justice Party)MAP: NSWThe Animal Justice Party has claimed the final seat in the race for the New South Wales Upper House. Their candidate Mark Pearson edged out the other minor party in the running, the No Land Tax Party. The MLC-elect is a former psychiatric nurse who has campaigned against sheep mulesing and kangaroo meat exports. Animal Justice Party National President and founder Professor Steve Garlick said they got the win on a shoestring budget. "We ran on a total budget of $12,000, and a lot of passion," he said. Professor Garlick said at one fundraiser the candidate Mr Pearson put his operatic skills to good use and sang to raise money. The result does not affect the balance of power in the Upper House. That lies with the Christian Democrats, who today claimed a second seat in the legislative council.

There have already been some independent shows for this breed , they have to present a breed standard and their goals for the breed and they work toward that .In order to reach the criteria as a breed in its own right they have to have a certain number of fertile dogs which are judged to be within the breed standard . They are right now developing their judges training scheme and the parent club grades dogs electronically [video and photos] to help breeders select dogs for their breeding program that are closest to the breed standard

I rarely come here these days so if you have any questions you are probably better off to contact us privately if you want it answered quickly. I said that the breeders have been testing for 20 plus genetic conditions I don't have the energy to retype them so Ive attached a test result sheet for you to see what they have been testing for and some still are but recently we have been doing a lot of work with a genetics lab and some tests have been taken out and some have been swapped due to updated information. The current list of MANDATORY tests required for all breeding Australian Cobberdogs is listed on our website – they are Degenerative Myelopathy, Centronuclear Myopathy, Narcolepsy, Cystinuria, Exercise Induced Collapse, Myotubular Myopathy X Linked, Progressive Rod Cone Degeneration-prcd-PRA, Pyruvate Kinase Deficiency, Skeletal Dysplasia, Phosphofructokinase Deficiency, Neonatal Encephalopathy, von Willebrand's Disease Type 1, Cone Rod Dystrophy, Globoid Cell Leuckodystrophy, Mucopolysaccharodosis

The letter that was sent out is a hell of a long way off them registering the pedigrees of cross breeds as the OP suggests - Looks to me that all they are doing is sending mail out to those who may be thinking about breeding their own dog and directing them to their pure bred programs to be able to do it properly.

According to this they are labradoodles with a different name. http://www.the-austr...-cobberdog.com/ As if we didnt all know the issue has been for quite some time that a labradoodle was anything from an F1 cross to something that was multi generational and multi generational with a view to a new breed. We could clearly see the difference between a labradoodle which is an F1 cross , a multi generational labradoodle which had not been selected for the development of a breed , Australian Labradoodles which had been registered with various registries and those which were applying to join us - back then they were called Authentic Australian Labradoodle - which had different infusions and had been selected for certain traits and qualities. Their dogs were not eligible for registration with Labradoodle registries because it was a different gene pool . The major condition the MDBA placed on them which we needed to have changed was their name so the public could easily see the difference. . They have been hip and elbow scoring and testing for 20 plus genetic disorders - they are every bit as dedicated to the betterment of their breed and future generations,not just the litter on the ground as any pure bred breeders I have ever met. I have to admit I didnt expect they would change the name so easily because there had been a lot of marketing world wide promoting the labradoodle but they gave the name up in a heart beat and decided on this new name. So the website Pippa referenced is right - they were previously known as Authentic Australian Labradoodles but they were and are very far removed from a lab cross poodle and had many other breeds infused - Sheridan could just as easily name two other breeds which were used in the recipe to advise someone as she did with different results - which is why they are now called Australian Cobberdogs. Some people will believe breeds in development are cross breeds until the day after they are accepted as a breed by the ANKC and that the breeders should be beaten,humiliated and treated as if they are doing some terrible things for the 15 plus years they need to stick it out to get to be accepted. We happen to believe that what we are doing is better for the dogs,the breeds and the breeders,owners and the community as the registry is kept by a third party arms length registry rather than a breed registry , with rules and regs for their members while they wait out their 15 years to get to the criteria for recognition. We get to have their breed standards analysed by experts to be sure they don't leave wide open doors for breeding to extremes, we can see what the test results are and if anything turns up in the gene pool the breeders need to take action on along the way we can see it and advise them.

Have a look at lagottos. Sheridan Lagottos are not like Australian Cobberdogs -there are numerous differences.

Doesn't look to me like what the Cobberdog people are trying to breed. Have you met many MDBA registered Australian Cobberdogs ? I was one of their greatest critics until I met them and saw what they have done and what they continue to try to achieve .The Lagotto coat alone would take them backwards by miles. All beside the point really,and I have no desire to promote or defend the new breed or any breed other than my own. That's the job of the parent club and breed clubs . I guess people decide they might want to develop a new breed for a variety of reasons including that they dont think there is already a breed which covers what they are aiming for. They have the right to give it a go still in this country and if they are fair dinkum about trying to one day bring what they are doing to a predictable breed and they are not just cross breeding for money and they fit our criteria we accept them as members just as we have done for over ten years - We are not the ANKC and part of our criteria isnt whether they are breeding recognised ANKC breeds - never has been. So the answer to your question I've just been told that the MDBA is a group that also accepts cross breed Breeders - oodles etc... No, thats not true.

Way back there were labs x poodles but see my earlier post several other breeds have been infused for particular reasons - what they are breeding now isn't just a selection of descendants of poodle x lab.

I believe it is the new name for a labradoodle, I stand to be corrected but think it has something to do with potential recognition with the ANKC Not quite - Almost . There are about 11 breeds which have been infused for various reasons over the past 15 years to bring it to where it is now Quote from the parent club website Link The primary purpose of the introduction of the Australian Cobberdog name, was to be able to identify dogs of a new breed, which has been developing and selected for specific temperament, traits and characteristics for more than a decade and a half by some breeders world wide of the (almost extinct) authentic Australian Labradoodles, which is erroneously seen by most as the same 'breed'. Though the roots of the Australian Cobberdog will always be associated with the 'Labradoodle', the finished produce is a new breed, bred selectively by breeders who are interested in future generations and not just the litter on the ground, to get a healthy, identifiable and predictable breed of dog more reliably suited to Service, Therapy and Assistance work.

Little Gifts Do I think its realistic to expect that breeders owners and trainers will be restricted in how many dogs per year they can dispose of ? No Yes registered breeders are restricted in some places as to how many litters one bitch can have and how often - aren't Racing Greyhound breeders restricted in the same way? And how would that keep numbers down? Less litters per bitch and less often means more bitches get put down or out to make room for the next one. Yes Licensed premises with DA are usually restricted in numbers including greyhound breeders.Breeders build bigger kennels and buy bigger properties zoned with out restrictions for intensive livestock to have less restriction in numbers. How is taking responsibility for how many dogs you don't want to keep a new concept? Well it isn't - that's why they take them to a vet to have them put down or find them new homes, hand them over to rescue etc. Its their property and their choice as long as they don't break animal cruelty laws. The entire current system,requirements for DAs and permits licences , codes is based on encouraging us into keeping less and turning them over more often not less often. Killing healthy animals because they don't cut the grade is horrible but killing them humanely isn't considered making them suffer under the law. You expect pounds,owners, other breeders, rescue etc to be able to decide which animals cant find homes or are unsuitable to be homed and are put down but not greyhound breeders and trainers? We all have an interest in seeing less healthy dogs put down or dumped on rescue but the more you judge and alienate them the more likely it is that healthy dogs will be put down more discretely and less dogs go into rescue. This is exactly what happens with some big puppy farmers because they are beaten up if they are seen to be moving them out to new homes or rescue.They would rather kill them than have the grief and be seen to be advertising them. Even for a small breeder to move out ex breeding dogs some will beat them up - on this forum you hear about how horrible a breeder is because they didn't keep their older dogs and moved them out for younger dogs. They nit pick about where they advertise them and actively try to prevent them from doing so. Do you really think a greyhound breeder is going to be keen to advertise ex racers knowing that will get them hell- yet if they don't they get hell for finding another solution - if the goal is less killed,more in new homes and more in rescue if they don't cut the grade then the only way to do that is to make the alternatives more attractive to those who get to decide at least in the short term. Anyway this isn't my fight and I have no wish to defend the industry - it will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

that link is for regs required for dogs which are already recognised over seas - this is the current one for ANKC recognition of new breeds which are not yet recognised by an overseas participating registry. 10.2 Requirements for the recognition of any breed which isnot yet recognised in its Country of Origin or Development (05/00) 10.2.1 Any new breed or breed of dog “under development”must have a unique breed name, and is not a combination of recognised breednames or part of a recognised breed name and it must be pertinent to thepurpose of the breed. (02/08) (Amended 10/09, 6.3.5) That there be a parent breedclub sponsoring the breed. • The parent club to be an organisation (usually anIncorporated Body) covering the whole of Australia that has acted as the StudBook Register for the breed for a minimum of fifteen [15] years.This organisation has been keeping records of all dogs bred inthe breed in Australia. Not as some people misunderstand that thebreed has been around for fifteen [15] years. (10/02) 10.2.3 The parent breed club to supply: • An authenticated copy of the Breed Standard • General information of the breed, such as additional textexpanding on the breed standard, photographs and diagrams to allowANKC Ltd to prepare an appropriate Breed Standard Extension. Theimporter shall also provide written approval for the use of thismaterial. (10/06, 6.1.2) • Details of the history and numbers registered 10.2.4 ANKC Ltd to assess whether the breed is consideredsufficiently viable from the above information, taking into account that: 10.2.4.1 Minimum Number of dogs registered be 500 That at the time of application there must be 500 dogs ofthe breed alive and all of the 500 dogs must be entire (none of themto be neutered). (10/02) 10.2.4.2 Minimum time the breed has been in existence be 15years. That there has been a parent club (usually an IncorporatedBody) covering the whole of Australia that has acted as the StudBook Register for the breed for a minimum period of fifteen [15]years. Not that someone has been breeding the breed for fifteen[15] years. (10/02) 10.2.4.3 Minimum time the breed has been in existence be 15years. This means that only those dogs with a 5-generation pedigreewill be eligible for acceptance on to ANKC Ltd register at thetime, if and when, the breed is adopted as an official ANKC LtdBreed. The 5-generation pedigree does not apply to the 500 dogs onthe Register. (10/02) The following requirements from Section 9.1 “Requirementsfor the Recognition of Any Breed which is recognised in its Countryof Origin or Development” shall also apply. These requirements are:(10/06, 6.1.2) 10.2.6 The Breed Standards Coordinator collates the aboveand checks the translation of the Standard into English where appropriate. 10.2.7 The Administrator circulates the Standard andadditional information to all member bodies for comment and formal adoption at the nextconference. 10.2.8 Breeds recognised from the 1st July to the 31stDecember shall be shall be eligible for entry on to the purebred register forthwith andshall be effective from the 1st July the following year for exhibitionpurposes. (10/06, 6.1.2) Breeds recognised from the 1st January to the 30th Juneshall be shall be eligible for entry on to the purebred register forthwith andshall be effective from the 1st January the following year for exhibitionpurposes. (10/06, 6.1.2) 10.2.10 When a new breed arrives in Australia, the breed theStandards Coordinator and the Administrator must be notified. [Added 16/10/97] 10.3 The Non Consideration of a New Breed ANKC Ltd will not consider the recognition of a new breedwhere the dogs have been registered with an overseas Canine Controlling Body that isnot recognised by ANKC Ltd. (10/06, 6.1.2) (Amended 10/13 – 5.6.4)

They have to agree to the regs and rules and codes and they have to submit a resume type submission which tells us about their goals and philosophies experience etc. We monitor what they are doing and withdraw their membership if we cant see they are complying with it all and moving toward producing a predictable recognisable breed. The foundation breeders have a short period of time to change over with websites etc after they come in and there are some other issues to deal with via some of the international members. Any suggestion that F1 cross breeders or someone who is not wanting to develop a breed is an MDBA breeder member is investigated and dealt with the same as we check on our breeders who breed recognised breeds.

I didn't say change wasn't coming - blind freddy can see its gong to happen Im just not convinced that what is being called for is the ideal solution or realistic.

A long time ago now I was asked to do a home check for a rescue and I couldn't get there so someone else did it. When I asked how it went I was told the decision not to allow them to take a dog was because it was 10.30 in the morning and the kids were still in their PJ'S. That day I threw out all of my kids pyjamas and from then on they slept it track pants and T shirts or sloppy joes so if anyone ever came to visit and they were not dressed in what they felt was good time I wouldn't be judged. of course not all dogs will suit all families but I do think some have gone a bit over the top. I also get frustrated when I leave messages and try to contact a rescue to never get a response - even when Im not looking for a dog and Im trying to give them something

Oh dear another tanty! Expecting a consensus on a forum is mission impossible :laugh: , opposing views are the norm, don't know why people seem to get their knickers in a knot over it. Sounds to me like you have become pretty jaded from fighting too many battles for dogs over the years and I can understand the demoralising affect this can have and the pessimistic outlook it creates. People/groups are working together to find solutions outside of shutting down the industry and have been working on this for some time and before the live baiting program was aired. Some of us want the industry shutdown as an ultimate goal but as a first step, will settle for a signficant overhaul of the industry that includes giving priority to the welfare of the greyhounds. Another Tanty? That's one way to try and deflect the debate. You call it jaded - I call it educated and experience. I call it looking beyond the propoganda and sensationalism to try to find realistic solutions which will leave the dogs in a better place so we dont look back in ten years with more dogs suffering than they do now.

2000 submissions out of a population of how many ? and I've seen all of this play out before with people yelling for what they have decided will be what is best without having the ability to see the multitude of issues they may have missed and things getting progressive worse for the dogs rather than better If you really think a government is going to put a ceiling on how many they can breed, how many they can kill or whether people can gamble on them you're dreamin. Years ago I went to a meeting with Clover Moore's people who were already at submission stage to parliment to ban the sale of live animals in pet shops and they didnt even know that Dogs NSW allowed the sale of puppies in pet shops or numerous other things that they should have known could have known to help them if they had of looked outside their animal rights pals they would have known that at the end of the day the people they thought were going to agree with them were in fact against them. What is best for the dogs is for us all to work together and listen to what others have to say to find realistic solutions which have the best outcome for the dogs but experience tells me there isnt a hope in hell of that happening - so if it makes you feel better ........

No its not the case. We don't accept people who are breeding cross bred dogs and in order to qualify for membership they have to be breeding a recognised breed or working toward developing a new breed. This is nothing new and the original board which came from dogz people almost 11 years ago had a Mini Foxie breeder who is still one of our members. The only thing we do differently in this regard to the ANKC is that we allow those who pass our criteria as a developing pure breed use of our registry before they are actually recognised . There are tests for them to pass to be sure they are actually developing a new breed, they have to have a parent club, a breed standard run conformation shows, and we monitor their progress and health. Their stud books are still open but they cant just infuse a dog without a process to show how it will benefit the breed and why its necessary - its very rarely done. They have to register every puppy bred and provide a registered pedigree with it. They cannot have an oddle name etc Every single Australian MDBA breeder member who is working on a new breed development was already an ANKC member before they joined the MDBA. So if someone is upset about us letting them in - first it would be better to take on the ANKC and If people should never be able to develop a new breed then the ANKC needs to remove the criteria required to qualify. If someone thinks the MDBA is not doing what is best for the dogs by providing the breeders rules, regs, codes and accountability and by guiding them with health and testing requirements - recording every dog's details including their DNA fingerprint and mandatory 20 plus DNA tests ,their qualifications and awards including what jobs they may do then Im all ears because our objective is to do what is best for dogs.

Sure the public are being educated but they are not just being educated by people who use a few cases to sensationalise via the media.They are also being educated by the response - which to live lures was that this is unacceptable, the people have been punished and steps will be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Ordinary everyday members of the public have no reason to continue to be interested about live lures - its not like the industry came out and said they agreed with it and they would continue to use this method to train their dogs. The finding of mass graves shows that lots are being killed but the public already know lots of dogs are being killed - animal rights and animal welfare have been telling them this for decades.The general public have heard all about piggeries, caged birds, crutching and mulsing,jumping and whipping horses,duck shooting, fox hunting, Roo shooting,deer shooting, abattoir and knackery practices, live animal transport and export etc. They have seen people who call themselves rescuers who hoard animals and keep them in filthy conditions, they have seen show judges of dogs, cats and horses prosecuted for animal cruelty , small breeders and large breeders under the spotlight,accused of all manner of cruelty and neglect including mass graves, and pedigree dogs exposed, the pet shops exposed and accused for a pile of things, including where they buy their puppies from, just before Easter a vet nurse who worked for the RSPCA was found guilty of neglect and cruelty and Im sorry I just dont think that the majority of people care that much about how many greys are bred which wont cut the grade or where they are buried enough for a government to bring in legislation that would adversely affect so many people including them. No one is accusing them of being as bad as puppy farmers "breeding their poor bitches to death" keeping them in filthy conditions, not feeding them well enough, not vetting them, or exercising them, using methods to transport them that are cruel, breeding them with adverse genetic conditions,doping them, inhumanely killing them etc. The dogs they discard are treated well until the day they die. When you feel passionate about something and you feel that what you are seeing is so horrible you expect that everyone else will see things your way - all you have to do is tell them about what you feel is needing to be changed and of course how could they not agree. In my opinion,regardless of how I feel about it or how those who care enough to beat their drum want it greyhound racing and betting on greyhound racing is not going to be banned in Australia in the foreseeable future and I think its unrealistic to put energy into fighting for this at this time.At best you may chase off some sponsors but that's a small impact. I think focusing on this and believing that it will happen because of an assumption that the majority of the people who vote and make decisions will agree with you once they are educated and not consider potential unintended consequences that this is the preferable solution is an obstacle in finding viable solutions now today. That has nothing to do with how much I care or how passionate I am to try to find solutions for the dogs - I just dont agree that the problem is as uncomplicated as some think it is and I don't agree that the solutions that some want to focus on hold the short term answers. I would like the opportunity to discuss other potential actions we might be able to advocate for which are more realistic to help the dogs now without having to wear amour and having to defend myself as if Im condoning the current situation.

Of course some of the public care, but you dont hear from the ones that dont care enough to think much about it all. For me I look at a decade plus campaign against petshops and puppy farms and its definite some of the public really care and are very vocal and proactive on it all but the general public still buy puppies from pet shops and puppy farms and commercial breeders flourish - if anything they do better now than they ever did before - very long term you may see some swing so something is done to control it all but for now - a couple of people have been busted using live lures - the industry was as outraged as the general public and have been seen to be doing something to prevent it happening - problem solved. Mass graves - too many being bred and killed ? They will be seen to be doing something to clean it up so its not seen to be as horrid as it is now. If anything is done as far as legislation its a long long way into the future yet and I believe that outside of the circle we see where we join with people who are more aware and more passionate about dogs and what becomes of them that the rest of the public don't care enough to swing legislation.

I agree with WW - its easy to think the majority of people feel some perceived outrage when they are not when the noisy minority and emotions are bubbling but cant see its going to have much affect over all for the outside world. Some people I spoke with yesterday couldn't see the issue and asked what these "do gooders" wanted people to do with dead dog bodies The comment was if every dog body was buried in a new place with a nice little head stone would that make any difference for them To them it was "so what they put lots of dead dogs in one spot [Cessnock]" .They thought it was stupid to put a bunch of them in a public access area just on the ground but were totally un moved by the idea that there were a lot of them in one place - made more sense to them to do that than scatter them one at a time all over the place . Did they care if the industry kills a lot that dont win races ? Not a bit as long as it was done without the dog suffering. Easy to think public outrage is huge but Im not sure it is. My link

I've heard the same thing, hence my reluctance to just go and buy it! I've heard that worms won't work with dog poo because it is mostly meat-waste. Mind you, I haven't heard these points from overly reliable sources, so hoping someone here may use one! :laugh: These work well - we used one similar years ago if you only have a couple of dogs they are great We use worm farms for our dog poo which were designed for us by someone who knew what he was doing about 10 years ago You just cant have only dog poo in them and have to use other combustible material in a fairly high ratio - we also add enzymes - cant put poo in them if you have used wormers either.

Thanks.

I think perhaps things are getting a bit confused here. There are many people involved in the industry: Owners (motivated by the desire to have fun racing a dog. Winning is a bonus. They may also bet, but they don't BUY a dog to bet on it) Breeders (motivated by the desire to produce a good race dog. Prize money in Victoria is very good - first place in most city races is around $5500. Breeders may also be owners. As with owners, they may bet, but they don't BREED a dog to bet on it) Trainers (motivated by the desire to win. They may also be owners and breeders. And as with them, they may bet but they don't TRAIN a dog to bet on it) Punters (motivated by the desire to win money by betting) It costs around $20,000 to get a litter of pups to break in stage. The owner pays this. The owner also pays for the pups to be broken in. Most trainers will train a race dog for a 50/50 split of prizemoney (there are no ongoing fees for the owners). Thanks - that helps - where does the prize money come from?