Steve

You miss the point and to hover over the use of the word bitch and or Dam is pointless. I dont know the full details of this particular study but I have been highly involved in several studies and witnessed many PHD students give their reports on their studies and the conclusions they have made from them and I watch constantly for any new studies and sweat over them. I am waiting on the results to be published of one I was highly involved in 6 months ago. In fact I would say that I have done way more than my fair share and whilst I don't have a Phd, 4 of my 8 kids do and I suffered through with their challenges as each achieved their qualifications and by the way my academic qualifications aren't that slack either though in the welfare and education area and not in the science field. How much benefit would I get as a dog breeder who works at educating other dog breeders from a study that shows that if a bitch is stressed in the first two weeks after or during delivery of her litter that there are markers in her 7 week old puppies over what I might get from a study we really do need to see done? By the way - If I lived in SA and had a pregnant bitch I too would put my hand up assuming someone else's Dam was stressed and not mine. Purebred breeders all over this country have their backs against the wall and in some states they have to treat their breeding dogs based on codes and laws which make absolutely no sense to the science of the species or best practice with many assumptions and rubbish started by ideas that come out of pointless studies that sometimes waste the precious resources available and in my opinion there is much more to be learned and studied that could help us and our dogs.

O dear , I didn't realise that. It's Ok. Notice: Topic starter was looking for Dam not for bitches. No need to play rough. :) More studies needed that is for sure. Actually she was looking for bitches that were about to become Dams. Actualy she said Dam In our case security camera with the view on the web will be installed at Dams place for continues monitoring and I will be happy to share that if anyone interested in 1 year time. I know she said Dam but a bitch isn't a dam until after she has her puppies and even after she has had her puppies she is still a bitch.So when she said she was looking for pregnant dams she was actually seeking pregnant bitches.

See problem is they cant MAKE YOU desex your dog - even though they write that into local laws that you need a permit to own one. Across the board enforcement has been and always will be the biggest problem - in NSW mandatory microchipping has been in since the early 90's and they still don't chip and no one ever enforces it .

O dear , I didn't realise that. It's Ok. Notice: Topic starter was looking for Dam not for bitches. No need to play rough. :) More studies needed that is for sure. Actually she was looking for bitches that were about to become Dams. and I was being tongue-in-cheek Yeah I knew YOU were.

O dear , I didn't realise that. It's Ok. Notice: Topic starter was looking for Dam not for bitches. No need to play rough. :) More studies needed that is for sure. Actually she was looking for bitches that were about to become Dams.

Not to mention the fact that there are no peer reviewed studies to back up anything they think which pushed them to make laws for it. Smoke and mirrors again.

So again I ask - why this study?

Im not shitting all over someone else's - and you would have no clue about what my base level is for my comments or what my qualifications are or my knowledge or experience lays. Im attempting to debate a topic and not make personal attacks as you have done. If you have something valid to say which will convince me Im wrong - give it a go talk me around - Flogging into me because I dare to state what I think takes the whole discussion nowhere. I hope the study in the OP goes well and I wish her nothing but the best for what she is doing and her attainment of her Phd but this is a discussion that needs to be had if we are ever going to progress. All your comments tell me is that anyone who wants to discuss something that's a bit outside the norm will be attacked and the person will be bullied - teaches no one anything and stifles debate which just may help in some progress and Im not easily shut up or bullied - though I am prepared to accept when I am shown why my thoughts or beliefs are not correct. By the way animal welfare law is introduced more often than many would think without any studies to back up where they have come from. You only have to take a quick look at the Victorian or NSW codes and laws for breeding dogs to see this. I didnt say this study was pointless but there are a hell of a lot of studies done over the years that would fit my definition of pointless and I ish we could get to a point where we could take more from them.

Lots of assumptions there and yes I have approached veterinary students and professors numerous times and at one point we included a science research category in our dog owners choice awards as well to try to help with more attention on students who were having a go in the hope we could encourage funding and support and no one wanted to participate for lots of reasons which educated me on the whole politics in research areas as well. I'm not guarded about helping and have helped in studies , been interviewed for hours and participated in surveys. When much of the current "welfare for animals" research is loaded with bias from the inception and those who give out the scholarships are also sometimes bent toward their own agendas with little objectivity it may be that pointless is in the eye of the beholder. Clearly sometimes people do actually get scholarships to do PHd studies which are pointless or at the least take the people who will be told what to do from them no where - wont change policies or law and if they did would see us all being told what to do without considering the variables and other stimuli or lack there of which may have been missed. So we have one study that tells us that "gentling baby puppies at 3 days of age" is a good thing but we want another study to show stressed bitches is not a good thing - so what if the bitch gets stressed when you are gentling her puppies at 3 days of age or if you do or don't gentle her puppies at all? How is a vet who has read a peer reviewed study about how such things in baby puppies potentially affect them at 8 weeks of age going to change treatment in an older dog - the vet may assume that a symptom may be impacted by how the puppy was reared by a breeder , and was impacted by lack of gentling in the early days after birth and too much stress for the bitch but unless he was there he's still guessing and still has to treat the symptom. In the mean time all the other peer reviewed studies that tell him that its genetics, neglect, filthy conditions, poor nutrition, abuse,lack of stimulation, lack of socialisation etc etc etc all peer reviewed. All Im trying to say is that this type of stuff is good for telling the world that puppy farmers don't have time to gentle all of their pups and their bitches are more stressed and this is what puppies need according to this study or that so every breeder should be licensed and regulated and have less than a handful of dogs but where is the bit where we actually have studies that give - breeders - an opportunity to answer the question we want answers to - that are much more important to the welfare of our boys and girls and puppies than what we have seen in this country for a very long time.

Well maybe if the studies were more in line with what we really want done and breeders were engaged more we could help with funding and providing test subjects etc. I know it sounds horrid and I dont want to beat some poor student down and discourage anyone but seriously there is so much about this I could say and for me its a waste of money and waste of resources

So Ill bite - why choose this to study ? How I wish PHD students would utilise the resources and skills that studies take to actually study things that will tell us something that we really do need to know - that will actually help us and the dogs - not something that is biased from the outset and that we all already know .

Doesn't seem very appropriate for me to write a review.. I'm happy to answer any specific questions. We just had our 10 year anniversary and have evolved a lot since we started. Never expected to be what everyone was looking for and because some of what we do is a not exactly what has traditionally always been done we have our critics but it is doing what we wanted it to do. Bringing all involved in dogs together to focus on what is best for dogs, providing education and resources, support and third party accountability. Our registry keeps health and temperament details,if the dog has worked and what type of work it has done, and all awards not just those recognised by traditional registries. Most of our breeders are still members of the ANKC and many dual register their dogs with us and the ANKC. Everyone who buys a puppy from our breeder members or a dog from our rescue members receive free membership to our smart dog owners club so we can build relationships with the pet owners too.That's been fantastic and we work hard at making it personal and getting to know about their dogs and what they are up to. Dog owners also provide us with details of their dog's health and achievements so we are not just relying on breeder input to put the information for each dog and their ancestors together into the data base for the future breeders to be able to access and see on every pedigree when they are profiling their pedigrees. We retain 92.2% of our members each year and pick up an average these days of about 5 new members each week. Our dog owners choice awards are designed to put a focus on what goes on in the dog world which is positive and has been like a snowball effect. In May for our red carpet night this year we will have 200 people flying into Melbourne to celebrate the nominees and winners and some who want to attend will be disappointed because we cant fit them in. The people I meet and speak with who have the most wonderful stories about what they and others do for dogs never ceases to amaze me and whilst its a huge amount of work to pull it all together each year its worth every minute to meet them in person and celebrate out loud what they do. Our foundation registry is designed to enable people who are working on breeds in development which are not yet recognised by traditional registries to utilise a third party registry and ensure politics and personalities don't white ant the development of the breed, ensure the integrity of the data,track health issues,provide registered pedigrees and to bring those who are genuinely working on a breed development under a code of ethics and regulations. When the breeds reach the criteria required for the ANKC recognition they can do what they do now and apply to the ANKC if they want. When we introduced the foundation registry some saw this as us promoting cross breeding and puppy farmers but everyone has to be working on developing a pure breed and cant be just cross breeding , they are governed by our codes and regs just as all of our members. There is not one MDBA breeder working on a foundation breed in Australia who owns more than 5 dogs. We think its what is best for the dogs and eventually what is best for any breed that is working toward recognition as a breed in its own right . The other area where the critics get a bit vocal is that we have all breeds rescue groups as well as pure bred rescues as our rescue members .Many thought we should only have pure bred rescue - As I said it was never intended to please everyone.

Would appreciate a PM about which policies and codes are vague so we can ensure they are more clear .

Using their Dogs NSW number in ads is compulsory so it makes little sense if that number is not easily checked - or what is the purpose of it - just ring and ask them.

lucky dog to have landed with you - well done!

Depending on what your complaint is in NSW it may be difficult to avoid the RSPCA or AWL as they are charged with investigation and dealing with breaches or laws and codes.

Not necessarily some are not charities and are not no profit - some are incorporated some are not - depends on how they are set up If its an MDBA rescue member you can bring it to our attention and we will deal with it. If not its the DPI - but good luck with that in NSW.

Banning the sale of puppies in pet shops wont make any difference on its own - they will still sell them - the demand hasn't decreased over night because you cant buy a pup from a pet shop. You will see more small breeders, who can do what they want without notice. If a commercial breeder has a couple of hundred breeding bitches and overnight they have to reduce to 10 [ doubtful] then 20 smaller breeders will take their place or they will be sourced from across the border. Puppies will still be bred, dogs will still be dumped and life will go on. Dogs will still suffer and there will still be dogs treated like crap. If anything, puppies will be cheaper with less people looking to make their fortune and having to cover costs to comply with infa structure more looking for pocket money. Not sure a whole bigger bunch of BYB who know nothing about diseases and the basics of dog breeding is the desired outcome. ANKC breeders cant cover the short fall of the puppies that are bred now in big kennels if they shut them down. Someone will.

Thanks Sheridan I needed that belly laugh - every time I think of it I catch myself shaking my head!

Yep been happening for at least 25 years Im aware of

Nutmeg and Smudge cost us (out of our own pockets) more than $4,000 on vet fees because they had parvo. We elected to cover the costs ourselves because I wanted to control their treatment instead of moving them to a cheaper vet that didn't have overnight care. Vet fees, all of the bedding/toys/bowls etc that we had to replace several times over plus the bleach, F10 plus all the cleaning - they were expensive pups. They were adopted out for the same adoption fee. I know a lot of people would have euthanised but I'm glad we didn't. Nutmeg is a beloved pet and Smudge has become an AMAZING flyball dog with many titles. I'm with RADAR now and I've noticed that this group almost never asks for donations even after copping massive bills for parvo dogs, transport etc. It really seems to vary between rescues! RADAR Do an awesome job of fundraising but a lot goes on in the background where its not openly seen to be begging. It comes from hard work getting local businesses on board and fundraising by volunteers that doesn't necessarily involve an obvious ask for help with specific dogs. This type of fundraising is more sustainable as its a constant income stream and increases naturally over time as long as you look after those who are on board .When you ask for donations for a specific dog or situation is a quick couple of bucks but it has to be a constant battle just to cover the basics.

Its not necessarily part of the criteria for running a successful rescue for the people involved to be poverty stricken indefinitely and only ever work voluntarily. Personally I think the sooner the key person running it can take at least a small wage and devote all of their time to it - running it as a viable business with a view to longevity the better. Usually those who are the founders of a rescue group sink massive amounts of their own money and resources in and that's very difficult to sustain especially if you are also responsible for feeding a family because people still have to eat and live. Being a non profit simply means any profits which are left after expenses doesn't go into the pocket of the board or anyone else and are used to grow the non profit business but legitimately expenses are a lot more than the actual money spent on the dogs, The current view that people involved in rescue should not be able to have their own expenses covered or draw a salary if they need to in order to continue what they have started and what they do in my opinion cripples the future of the group, limiting it to what it can achieve and has a high risk of those people who are at the core burning out. I do also think that the whole fundraising thing and public relations needs to be re assessed with innovative methods utilised so those who are supporting them dont get over cooked on it . So what they actually do with their money for me isnt the issue as long as they are covering the ethical issues and doing what they set out to do - I would much prefer constant legitimate fundraising requests than some of the other things which go on under the banner of rescue where donations are used to finance puppy farmers who stay under the radar because they call themselves rescue. i also dont understand why - if they can get that sort of money for their puppies that they shouldn't ask that .If some people are prepared to pay for it why should they not take it . Prices should surely be set at supply and demand the puppies are worth what ever people will pay and just because I wouldnt doesnt mean that others wont .Would be completely different if they had a litter of puppies now 6 months old with no homes because they are too pricey. I say good on them. They shouldnt have shut you up - bad PR. If they had bothered to answer you they may have been able to keep a supporter and gain more.

Thats O.K. I agree they should identify which registry they belong to as long as all ANKC registered breeders are also have to do the same. But most still say "registered breeder" and yell when other people say registered breeder without identifying which registry they register with and its not an ANKC one. In NSW Dogs NSW have regulations to ensure when a registered breeder has an advertisement it includes their member number . The ANKC has never had a monoply on registration services and registered breeders. However, these people have identified which registry they belong to which I believe is an independent registry to register Jack Russell Terriers. www.Independentjackrussellterriers.com

Or eat them.

Because Silver Eagle Cool Champions are sponsoring the category of Fundraiser of The Year and the entries close on 31/1/15,they have decided to go one step further and give away a cool coat to a lucky person who nominates a business or person they know who they think deserves to get a 'pat on the back' for a job well done! There are 23 categories to chose from. All you have to do to be in the draw to win a Cool Coat is nominate and then fill in the form on the Silver Eagle website. Silver Eagle Here You all know people who do things toward helping to raise funds for rescue - please take this opportunity to say thank you Nominations close 31st Jan 2015