Steve

Not entirely sure where I stand on breeders not registering some or all of a litter, But I do disagree with the bolded bit above. The ancestry of the dog doesn't change if they are not registered. (As long as you are 100% sure the breeder is legit and is doing all the correct health tests and is registered themselves) It is still as valuable to the purchaser, they want a pedigree dog with the lineage intact, they just don't need the piece of paper that proves it. I have the pedigree certificate for the 2 pedigree dogs I have owned. They sit in a safe, never looked at, never needed. In my situation why do I need them? - other than to prove the pedigree is legit, but as i said, if you are sure of that then why? Mind you, if, as stated, it only costs $25 to register a pup then it does seem pointless to break ANKC rules for $25 Of course it's ancestory doesn't change but the record of ancestory is lost. Scenarios: Person A buys unregistered pup. 5 years later person A dies and unregistered pup goes to unknown new person. History lost. Person A buys unregistered pup. 2 years later person A decides they can keep unregistered pup and rehomes it. History lost. Without a record accompany the pup of its ancestry, it effectively does not have a recorded ancestoral history. All of the arguments put forward so far assume that person A will forever have the pup and will keep on contact with the breeder. It's a disregard for rules set down by a governing body, peer expectations, and it destroys a claim of value that purebred dogs have. When it is spoken of with such disregard 'it's just a piece of paper with a fancy name' it destroys the value that many have fought so hard to retain. Yep and if that's all it is what on earth are we doing knocking ourselves out supposedly to better the breeds?

Dogs NSW have new requirement where you have to have your membership number in all ads or face fines and an enquiry . So I just did a search and turned up heaps of ads Ive placed over the last 10 years - some I can edit some I cant .But it works both ways what if I say Im DOGS NSW add my number and tomorrow Im not a member any more - seems potential problems here either way.

They need outside accountability and while ever they decide that second opinions and including the owners isnt policy its bound to keep happening.

Yes I hear you but we should be strutting our stuff so pet buyers understand what it is they are getting and why its such a big deal. Hard to do that when many who are breeding don't get it. Take a good look when something goes wrong and the first thing that gets slammed is the name of the breeder and their prefix - all of asudden when things go wrong everyone gets really interested in the prefix.

I think they would have to be pretty old - in the eastern states its been at least 20 years. They sign a COE and agree to abide by that - register all puppies. 20 years ago I think there was only one registered Neo breeder in this country. Well either way Im not up for excusing anyone because 20 or so years ago the system was different. If they are members now its up to them to know the code and what they have agreed to - if they don't like they shouldnt be there. You dont get to pick the eyes out of something you have agreed to and simply ignore the bits you dont like.

The label would be important to you if something went wrong. This week I received a phone call to tell me one of the dogs I bred had passed away. She was 17 and a half years old and had needed no vet treatments and had been in great health up until the last 6 months of her life. I did that - not someone who just takes two dogs which are convenient and lets them have sex and they talk about my prefix with nothing but glowing terms - thats my brand and I put it on every single thing I breed and cant imagine why anyone would devalue what goes into making a predictable healthy long lived dog as if its just another dog that could have come from any where.

Maremma dont make more territory unless the animals they are bonded to move into more territory .

As far as the wilderness is concerned they will need a boundary so some kind of fencing sooner or later will be required but there are numerous situations up north on hundreds of thousands of acres which are working without a problem.

I think they bonded as they bond to poultry, bonding to tiny little mouse/rat like creatures is another thing. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that there are so many things that could not work. MUP I think you have it wrong - Ive seen them in some extra ordinary situations and if I asked them to guard a mouse family they would. I worry about the other native animals that they haven't been introduced to. If they do it wrong they'll screw up the entire ecosystem. They're going to have to bond them to every animal that is meant to be in the environment and just not ferals. That's a lot of animals. Not true - they dont bond with the others - simply see them as normal. I have a couple that work in a wallaby refuge and accept what is normal but are bonded to the wallabies they dont clear the area of everything else - just what is a threat and not seen as normal. Same here they allow the native birds and frogs , the maggies free movement but take out a crow in a heart beat. But wouldn't putting in sheep bond them to the sheep and not the bandicoot? And how about letting them guard in wilderness? I can see them going misssing or leaving the area to make more territory. No I place them in hobby farms where people have several species all being looked after by one dog. As long as the sheep are not seen as a threat they will all live happily ever after - as long as they do the initial phase properly first .

I think they bonded as they bond to poultry, bonding to tiny little mouse/rat like creatures is another thing. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that there are so many things that could not work. MUP I think you have it wrong - Ive seen them in some extra ordinary situations and if I asked them to guard a mouse family they would. I worry about the other native animals that they haven't been introduced to. If they do it wrong they'll screw up the entire ecosystem. They're going to have to bond them to every animal that is meant to be in the environment and just not ferals. That's a lot of animals. Not true - they dont bond with the others - simply see them as normal. I have a couple that work in a wallaby refuge and accept what is normal but are bonded to the wallabies they dont clear the area of everything else - just what is a threat and not seen as normal. Same here they allow the native birds and frogs , the maggies free movement but take out a crow in a heart beat.

I think they bonded as they bond to poultry, bonding to tiny little mouse/rat like creatures is another thing. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that there are so many things that could not work. MUP I think you have it wrong - Ive seen them in some extra ordinary situations and if I asked them to guard a mouse family they would.

Both.

If I introduced the dog to the field mice so he saw that as normal and welcome in a sheep paddock they would look after them too. Same as they look after the maggie's here and kill the crows in the sheep paddock.

I have absolutely no doubt it will work if they do the first steps correctly - Ive seen them in many different bonding situations and they will win these little guys over in a heart beat - they will understand what they are looking after and what they need to protect - no doubt what ever for me - but Im not convinced they have the first bit right - in my opinion giving the dog a toy isnt going to cut it and I hope they understand what they need to do.

its also about your brand can you imagine where Prada would be if they sold their product without the label? Surely they would only consider that if the product was inferior or had a fault - that registered pedigree and your prefix on it is huge and you treat as if it means nothing!

Am I correct in thinking that the only people registering with the MDBA are MDBA members? Not really - the only people registering their litters are MDBA members but our information comes also from people who are not members who provide us with information about their purebred dogs which we add into the data base to enable breeders to have greater knowledge to profile a pedigree and 'line' to select the best breeding dogs.

PLUS 1

The MDBA registry records health, temperament and lots of other things - on the database and recorded on the face of all pedigrees.

What makes us different to anyone else who breeds a litter of puppies is our care and concern for future dogs and future litters not just the one on the ground The papers are what enables us to keep the records associated with each dog and use it and pass it on.

I think they would have to be pretty old - in the eastern states its been at least 20 years. They sign a COE and agree to abide by that - register all puppies.

In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. So how does anyone keep track of the positives and negatives in the lines? Pedigree papers arent just a piece of paper they are intrinsic to being able to track issues for generations and making the person who buys them take pride in what they have over and above anyone else who is breeding them. I can't speak for everyone but if I sell one without papers it is being sold as a pet and will be desexed so there will be no future generations for that particular puppy. As to if that puppy has issues, I keep in contact with all of my puppies and am as interested if this puppy has issue as I am in one registered on the limit register. Registering them doesn't make you a better breeder. So how is this information that may turn up over the years passed onto other breeders if the pup isn't registered?

Do you see them listed here? My link

Well they cant have it both ways .If you agree to abide by a code you abide by the code - not just some bits in it - or you leave. I believe one of the biggest mistakes the CCs made was by going with AR and restricting when a bitch should be bred and think its better for my girls to have back to back litters if they are healthy etc but whilst ever Im a CC member I do what I said I would do and abide by the code - pretty simple really.

In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. gremiins sorry

In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. So how does anyone keep track of the positives and negatives in the lines? Pedigree papers arent just a piece of paper they are intrinsic to being able to track issues for generations and making the person who buys them take pride in what they have over and above anyone else who is breeding them.