Steve

Frustrating isn't it ? There is a general trend toward going for chemicals and drugs before they try the alternatives rather than the other way around . I get crazy about it with my kids. I have a 20 year old who went the first 18 years of his life without anti biotics .He turns 18 and gets a sore throat which ordinarily I would have treated and knocked over quickly but he is a big boy now and an apprentice and decides he wants a day off so the only way to do that is to get a doctors script - so doctor gives him anti biotics even though she told him it was mild and probably a virus .So kid ends up in hospital - allergic to penicillin. Two days ago I sat with him all day in hospital on drips bleeding from the bowel - side effect of some other anti biotic which was given to him because he had an ingrown toenail. Then they want to treat the side effect with different anti biotics and keep him in for two or three days! After much debating with the doctors I was allowed to bring him home with no antibiotiocs on the condition that if he wasnt heaps better within 24 hours or if the pain got worse I was to take him straight back . When we got home I fed him Slippery elm with honey and probiotics - miraculous recovery .GRRRRRRR.

The less you have to bath them the better so unless you think they need it go Calendula only.

Agreed .

Calendula tea should be made using boiling water and it should sit in that water for at least 5 mins. The flavenoids and other goodies are not killed off by this -you may loose some vitamins but it isn't the vitamins that do the work. You need boiling water to get the good stuff out of the flowers or you need to go about it by letting it sit in oil for a long period [couple of weeks ] to allow the good stuff to absorb into the oil. Just make it exactly the same as you make an ordinary every day pot of tea. The reason you cant let it sit for lengthy periods without refrigeration in an air tight container is because of the bacteria that can get in from the air into the water after its cooled and that will happen whether you use distilled water or any water That's not because its Calendula but because ANYTHING that sits around the house with water in it that doesnt have a preservative can and does get bacterial contaminates in it from the air.

double post

espinay2, on 28 February 2014 - 07:08 AM, said: But when we only had the main register you didn't need to register every pup in a litter. Many breeders would sell pets unregistered and only register a few. My first pyr was like this. I was buying a pet so she was unregistered (I was given a hand written 10 generation pedigree). It was only with the intro of the limited register that the requirement to register all pups was introduced. Dancinbcs "When I started it was very unusual for breeders in NSW and Vic to not register all puppies and sell them on main. In my first decade in dogs, I only met two people at obedience trials who had unregistered dogs from registered breeders. Everyone had main register, whether they showed or not and none of the breeders who mentored me ever mentioned not registering every puppy. All progeny of my stud dogs were registered and sold on main as well. In those days lots of pet bitches had litters for their breeders and dogs in pet homes were used at stud to top breeders bitches. It really did help to keep the gene pool open. " Yes I agree that it was better for the gene pool and the reality is that unless a breeder is desexing every puppy before sale now that the only people it is restricting by using limited register is people who want to become members and breed registered puppies - it doesn't stop people who will breed them without papers. Breeders need to ask themselves if they are trying to keep new members breeding registered puppies out because that is the only group which could possibly increase due to the restricted use of limited register papers. What is worse someone buying a puppy and breeding it without being able to put papers on their puppies or someone who becomes a member and breeds it to make registered puppies which become part of the gene pool. Of course keeping it and using it as it is also prevents people who are older members trying to do the right thing by the breed and using your dogs as well but is it better for the breed when these breeders are forced to use inferior dogs? I don't agree that having a vet make a determination that a dog should or should not be used for breeding is the answer but asking a breeder to explain why they place each dog on limited register would help to change the current view of how the limited register should be used for the betterment of the breeds and see more placed on the main register. Some will argue that things are not as they were 15-20 years ago BECAUSE of the introduction of the limited register .It has seen less people breeding a litter or two and more people breeding a lot ,more people breeding pure bred dogs without papers ,less choices in a breeding program and a shrinking gene pool, less ANKC members and less ANKC puppy registrations. Having everyone breeding the same genes in the same way - clones of a core group of breeders- isn't what is best for the long term benefit of a breed and that is supposed to be what our main objective is when we breed a dog. Breeders who only register what they keep and break the codes, desex what they dont want to keep or cease breeding will be seen to be part of the problem. Sooner or later in my opinion the limited register in all states will be gone or have much greater restrictions on it . Its better for the breeds and its better for the bank.

A blend of Lavender[Augustifolia] organic peppermint and organic sage added to the Calendula to target the crusty spots works well. Combine one part of the herb mix to 4 times the Calendula and place into a glass or stainless pot.Not Aluminium. Cover with water and bring to a gentle boil over moderate heat. Simmer for 10 minutes, then remove from heat and allow to stand until cooled. Strain the cooled fluid through a sieve. Then soak the dog's skin and coat and let him drip-dry.You can spray it on when ever you think of it.This will kill yeast and bacteria sooth it and make it feel relieved and stop the itch. Edited to add this type of Lavender is edible and so are all the other herbs so it wont hurt if they get to eat some of the spent herbs to boost the immune system. Based on what you have said kelp [Ascophyllum nodosum] should help and wont do any harm for the iodine especially if you use fluoride water. You pay the postage and Ill put a package together for you to give a try to.

If you have crusty spots or broken skin you will need to be a bit more aggressive about treating them Apple Cidar vinegar will do the job but its got a bite even when its watered down. betadine spray or liquid which has iodine in it will also do what the ACV does but more expensive and less bitey. I can also give you a recipe to make a spray which includes Calendula but specifically designed to deal with open wounds. Even though you have to deal with what you see and what may trigger it the real problem is what is going on inside with the immune system.

Yes but its all maybe and requires a vet to tick off whether one dog or another should be taking extra doses daily over a long period of time. I didnt say no matter what the quantity and it really is as I say - dogs are supposed to make their own vitamin C from other nutrients in their diet - it produces more in times of greater need such as hard work or stress etc. How much is in the product you give and how much would your dog ordinarily produce on its own? And it doesnt need to be argued that dogs suffering arthritis etc are under stress because I and everyone else agree and they will do benefit by an addition of vitamin C to bring it back to a point where its able to cope and produce its own - Im saying dont use it over extended periods without vet advice - not never use it but its should be treated as if its a medicine and not a food when its given in this manner for dogs.

If people feel their dogs need extra vitamin C they need to consider why the dog cant make enough of its own and be aware that feeding vitamin C sups daily over a long time may have health risks associated which wont show for some time .Dogs are supposed to make enough vitamin C to give them all they need and if you give them this daily there are risks associated with that. I'm just the messenger. Dogs really do make their own vitamin C - as much as their bodies need and giving the supps over a long period of time makes them stop being able to make it themselves and makes their bodies have to work hard to get rid of any that they dont need - this puts pressure on kidneys and livers especially on a daily basis. .it should not be given to them every day for a long period of time. If you want to give it to them in short bursts or irregularly that's completely different to daily and for extended periods with out vet advice. I would prefer people be fearful and check with their vets first. So its not about any product that has vit C in it it - its about how its used and how often its used for dogs.

Thinking of you and sending you loads of best wishes and prayers.

Missed this bit - the shampoo and conditioner both have Calendula oil in them so it depends on what the problem is and how dirty the dog gets. I think with a couple of mine if I just put the tea through it might turn to mud some days Just depends on how you live with them and what your preference is. A dog that looks clean and smells good is easier to love when it sits on your couch but from an itchy skin point you don't need to shampoo them first. Dog's coats are naturally oily which prevents water from getting to the skin so just pouring it over wont work as well as applying it down lower into the coat and onto the skin in long coat dogs. Thanks Steve, I guess my dogs don't get really dirty, but they are city dogs who are inside probably 20 hours a day, in a small house with carpeted areas, rugs and access to couch etc so i find it more pleasant if they're bathed regularly. Penny started getting itchy shortly after her 3rd puppy shots (coincidence?) and responded immediately to cortisone. The vet wanted her to be on that, which I wasn't happy with. She was put on R/C hypoallergenic for 8 weeks, and if anything was even itchier. I almost had to beg to get a referral to a dermatologist vet; the skin prick test showed a mild reaction to a number of pollens, grasses and mites but nothing too drastic. She's been on desensitization injections for 13 months now, and I sometimes think they're working, and other times despair at the lack of progress. Interestingly, she has been boarded twice for around 3 weeks at a time and even though she doesn't have a very good time there, she came back in a better nick skin wise, but was itchy again within 3 days of being home. I started adding Innerhealth to her dinner a couple of weeks back, and am still applying calendula tea to her sore spots even though it doesn't seem to help her much. She enjoys drinking it though. I think I'll follow Erny's suggestion of getting a DNA test done as the next step Describe her sore spots.

Yep you're right and that product is not JUST vitamin C - but when you have a dog that's helped by giving it vitamin C Id prefer that it was not a constant daily supplement that's all. On and off is better so the dog still remembers how to make the stuff itself. Any vitamin C in commercially made dog foods are long gone because its destroyed by heat and storage. Feeding fresh foods with vitamin C in is also usually not constant and small amounts with other nutrients needed to help it move out without causing as much damage. Im not saying this product or any other isnt a good thing Im suggesting that its not good given daily indefinitely for dogs without vet advice.

That is my opinion - but I know there are many here who disagree.

Thank you Ill give you a code so anyone that comes from your recommendation will give you a donation from me to seniors and silky rescue. Give me an hour or so to sort it out for you.

Missed this bit - the shampoo and conditioner both have Calendula oil in them so it depends on what the problem is and how dirty the dog gets. I think with a couple of mine if I just put the tea through it might turn to mud some days Just depends on how you live with them and what your preference is. A dog that looks clean and smells good is easier to love when it sits on your couch but from an itchy skin point you don't need to shampoo them first. Dog's coats are naturally oily which prevents water from getting to the skin so just pouring it over wont work as well as applying it down lower into the coat and onto the skin in long coat dogs.

My link This one would be better but Ive never seen it in Australia. Re Vitamin C - This is one of the big ways that dogs are not like humans. If humans dont eat foods or have supps with vitamin C they get sick and can die because they dont manufacture their own vitamin C within their body. Dogs however do manufacture their own vitamin C . Typically the dog makes as much vitamin C as it needs by using other nutrients it takes in via diet .When you supplement vitamin C for a dog the dogs own ability to do so is shut down - sometimes permanently. The liver and kidney of a dog do not handle an extra concentration of vitamin C and The dog's system works to rid itself of the over abundance , causing stress to the organs.A long-term excess of vitamin C can result in kidney and liver damage, which can threaten the dog's life and what you supplement is a different form to the one the dog makes for itself. Now having said that - vitamin C can help dogs which are under stress , have an infection or an injury but it should be used as a medicine and only given for a few days. You shouldn't give it to your dog especially for a lengthy period without vet advice. It can work as an anti inflammatory and antioxidant but long term use is not something I recommend for anyone to play with for dogs without serious consideration for the alternatives first. If a dog isn't making enough Vitamin C then we should be looking at how its diet is deficient and not enabling it to produce it and fixing that rather than just trying to supplement it.

Because some dogs seem to be O.K. eating crap commercial dog food that's no indication that its what is best for them or that its not impacting on longevity etc. I want my dogs to live as long as possible as healthy as possible so for me feeding them foods I believe may not give them the best chance of that is not an option. I'm pretty healthy and I can eat anything without much of an issue except extra weight but I try to keep the crap down because I dont want to be old and sick if I can avoid it and I understand that if I dont look after that it will impact as I get older - so I do the same for my dogs because surely even if they appear to thrive when youngish they will have a better chance at a longer healthier life if I feed them and care for them with a bit more effort. For me its worth it.

I understood the probable instigating problem to be a congenital issue with the lymph node and unless this is common in the breed unlikely to be genetic. There is so much more to look at including what diet and what chemicals a bitch is exposed to and how that may impact on her puppies and their puppies and even what may be going on for a dog when a chemical is introduced. Living in different places also impacts on the stresses and environmental factors a dog may be exposed to. Lots also has to do with where the breed developed and what the staple diet of the founding stock in the main was too. Just because dogs dont get the same symptoms and manifest the problems the same way doesn't mean its not going on. From a breeders perspective its really important to be able to breed healthy puppies which will live long happy healthy lives generation after generation and it's what drives me to learn and research and study - look deeply into genetic issues in the breed and the lines, avoid chemicals and feed only the best diet possible. its preferable the puppies I send out into the world do that without too much effort on the part of the new owner .Id like to think my puppies go to their new homes and eat what ever is offered to them ,cope with any environmental crap, stress, and chemicals and have no adverse reaction and live till old age. So far for over 30 years that has been exactly the case and only 2 out of hundreds have ever had any sign of an issue - both had allergies to grass and both parents were removed from any further breeding.Genetics and breeding management is a whole new topic. BUT when you are a dog owner and faced with dealing with health issues, the stress that goes with it and constant vet bills - watching your dog suffer you look for a way to take control, help your dog and ease its suffering or prevent the next dog you own becoming ill too. The more you know the more your decisions are changed and why would you give your dog a monthly chew for heart worm knowing its a chemical similar to cockroach bait when you know the risk of your dog getting heartworm is zero even if you are confident that its genetics don't indicate it will react ? problem is most of the things that impact dont do so overnight so when you see itchy skin in 6 months time you don't associate that with that treatment or exposure . You say nothing is different Ive been giving xxxx for 6 months now and Ive had none of these symptoms. When you suppliment Vit C for 12 months and then see kidney stones and liver damage you dont associate that with giving the vitamin C either. So much to talk about isn't there?

Re the chemicals. My advice is to get educated - look at what your dogs risk factors are for parasites in your area .To do this you need to identify what parasites there are internal and external and look at their life cycle, how your dog lives and possible alternatives and consequences. For example some things like Parvo should be treated with vaccination until they are 12 months old - all of the research shows us that dogs are immune after this for the rest of their lives. But when it comes to worming and heartworm meds - these are chemicals - they affect the immune system and the long term health of your dog - look at the risk factors and the adverse effects of the drugs ,When drug companies test this crap they only have to do so for a very short period of time so look at the individual chemicals in the medications and then look at possible side affects. If you think after you have done the research that your dog may be at risk - look at possible alternatives and weigh up what you think is best for your dog. Just because a product is herbal or grown or used for humans doesn't mean its not a chemical and cant do harm to your dog especially if it is given over a lengthy period or interacts with something else as well. There are many things that are recommended here on this forum and advice which are incorrect too. Some things should be used as medicines to help with a problem and not given over a lengthy period of time because they stop the body producing enzymes and other things in the form that is better for good health and the body can become immune to it. As far as diet is concerned. You dont need to be a rocket scientist or kitchen whizz to feed your dog a healthy well balanced diet that will ensure good health. When you go shopping for groceries or feed kids you understand that you have to include lots of variety - you know if you eat the same food every day without that variety you will get sick and you get sick of the food - your body craves other foods. Sometimes you will hear great stuff about a new brand of dog food but no matter what that dog food is, what they say is in it , or how its made I promise you if that's all you feed that's not a good thing and will impact negatively on the immune system and the long term health of your dog. I feed myself and my kids meat that comes through a butcher shop and I'm not up for spotting for organic meats for my dog. Feeding a variety of different meats means less risk of an over load for humans and dogs anyway. Raw food diets most closely resemble what the dog has evolved on and what it chooses to eat given a choice but if you feed it the same mix of raw foods every day or too often then you may see long term problems through a lack of or overload of some nutrients too. Here to ensure my dogs do get variety whatever we eat for dinner is what the dog gets - so this evening we had chicken parmigiana and the dogs got raw chicken "balls" these are balls I make up about the size of baseballs with raw pet chicken mince - which has the bone as well as the meat and I mix in all different kinds of fruit and vegs and different mixes of herbs and freeze them - when I take out our chicken for dinner I take theirs out too and they get a couple of chicken wings too to wash their "balls" down. When its really hot they get these frozen like ice blocks and they love them. So each day as Im preparing the food for my family the dogs eat the equivalent but raw. This way I know the dogs are getting as much variety as we are. This works for me but I live in the boonies and I have huge freezers and buy everything in bulk and grow my own fruit and vegs,work from home and I feed a family with no take away and no junk food shops around me. So what works for me wont work for others - so work out what will be best for you. If its feeding a commercial diet - dont only feed that brand indefinitely unless you also add in a lot of variety of extras. When you look at supplements don't use one or two nutrients indefinitely - nothing is as easy as it sounds - all nutrients need other nutrients to assimilate and giving one or two may mean bigger problems down the track. the good news is as you work at learning and bringing your dog to better health you can apply most of it to yourself and your family too. Wire with your dog as you know the lymph issue will be causing the symptoms and there is little - nothing you can do about the cause but you can ease the symptoms and lower the impact a bit.

Many of us place our pups on the LR to stop unwarranted registered breeding to occur with our lines. In QLD we do not have a "Not for Breeding" box or form unlike many other states. So we place pups on the LR to prevent this. Not always because they have a true breed fault. Take aside the early desexing argument. It really should be up to the breeder if they want to early desex or not - and that is not the point here. Although if this is adopted - many more breeders will be forced to early desexing to stop the rogue breeders of their breed from gaining access to their lines. (This also plays into the hand that some of the welfare groups wanted us to do back in before the Animal Management Act 2008 came into force - all pups are desexed prior to sale. Please - QLD members - write in to Dogs Queensland and voice your concern and objection to Dogs Queensland taking away a breeders right on what should or not be bred. I certainly do not want the puppy farmers or colour breeders getting hold of my dogs or lines as a result of such a move. We at least need a "not for breeding" option if we are now to place most of our stock on Main Register. I think this is what is the crux of what is happening here - someone or some group sees limited register puppies are increasing and some see that as an indication that we are not breeding better quality dogs and that our breeding programs are not succeeding. It could just as easily mean that we are being more selective about which ones we choose to show and or breed with because public perception, CC regs, state and council laws limit the amount of dogs we can own. Its about us looking like we are breeding more puppies which are unsuitable for breeding. No vet will ever decide for me which dog should or should not be used for breeding - just one more decision they will take from breeders.

I have been buying from Stefmar on e-bay. 2 x 500g RHVC powder for $174.00 including postage Steve, re the turmeric capsules, what dosage do you recommend? I was using it for a 36kg dog with cancer (who is no longer with us) giving 500mg capsule once daily. (Sorry to hijack thread!) Getting back to arthritis, I would also advocate Bowen therapy from time to time. I use the powder - each capsule has about 1/2 a teaspoonful and I recommend a level teaspoon which is about 2 capsules of turmeric powder in a cup and add a dash of freshly cracked pepper and a dessert spoon of Olive Oil,coconut oil or linseed oil Both the cracked pepper and oil increases the absorption of turmeric. These oils also have high omega 3s and low omega 6s which is best as high omega 6's can make inflammation worse Pour boiling water over these ingredients until the cup is 1/3 full and then leave it to sit for a few minutes. Split this into half of the liquid given twice daily. You can add it to anything to make the dog more interested such as stock cubes add it to other food etc but most like it as it comes. I caution against using vitamin C for dogs for more than a few days.

When a breeder decides a dog should or shouldnt be used for breeding there are a multitude of reasons which go into determining that - things a vet could have no possible idea of .To suggest the answer to their concerns is all on main unless a vet says they are no good for breeding is crazy. Seems to me every time you turn around there is some new rule or law which makes vets richer and not much else.

Sorry Oakway I wasn't clear I meant that they allow breeders to register a pup straight into the new owners name - in NSW its not possible for the breeder to do this and I didn't realise the limited register was the same price as the main one in queensland - there is a difference in NSW.

See, you know a lot more than I do so I will certainly take your word for it and I'll continue to do what I'm doing. I imagine the same goes for the Transfer Factor. Thanks, Moosepup. These things don't hurt in higher doses and you will know if you should back it back as you will see diarrhoea - what you are doing is good.