LizT

I just got the same email!!!! Deleted it of course.

Why not? My concern is that breeders may choose to breed too young for any testing that will show the onset of inherent diseases. My understanding is that in the U.K. it is recommended (not yet implemented) that a 'Stud Dog' (and bitch) CKCS be screened for SM at 3 years and again at 6 years. Now how many times could a Stud Dog be used prior to screening if left unrestricted?? How long is that piece of string?

chlorophyll is detrived from such plants as parsley and alfalfa. It is often marketed for dogs as a breath freshener. It is suggested to add to the water when being used for this purpose. I found out later it can mask the 'heat ' smell some what to! Problem is my girls wouldn't touch the water even when I only put a few drops in!!! But I'll try it in their food next time one is in season, should be quite helpful to ward of some unwanted attention especially when you take them out.

I think you need to reread the rule book As a breeder without an affiliated Breed Club, the overwhelming point of contention is that there are Breed Specific breeding decisions are being made for Central Asian, Anatolian, Kangal by people who know nothing of the breeds, except for maybe what they look like and their breed name. It is unfathomable that there are breed specific minimum ages being proposed with NO consultation with the breeders and those who know the breeds. So we have random ideas for an Anatolian, Kangal and Central Asian breeding protocol, being made by people who have no working knowledge of each breeds' respective breeding conditions, gene pool constraints or any of the pressing issues facing their breeding future. Have reread, you're right. Certainly does pay to go over these things when one can at their leisure. 20.1.12 A member shall not breed with a bitch unless the bitch has reached adequate maturity for that breed as determined by the Victorian Canine Association Inc. Must have got that mixed up with the 20.1.13 A member shall not breed a bitch causing it to whelp more than twice in 18 months without the prior approval of the Victorian Canine Association Inc. Must have got that mixed up with the CKCS guideline of not breeding before the third season or 18 months. Totally agree that those with the knowlege of their respective breed should be the decision makers in this type of thing. And yes, it is a further difficulty for rarer breeds that have no affiliated Club etc. as you have not/do not get consulted on an individual basis yet you are the ones with the knowlege and are best qualified to make the decisions regarding these breeds. I do, however, find it slightly disturbing that one could breed an 8 months old bitch on her first season if they deemed her adequately mature . I'm sure those people exist, registered breeders and all.

I agree, they just want a response so they can hack into your computer!!

It's good to have goals and a dream. Take your time and learn as much as you can about the breed (choose your mentors CAREFULLY) but understand that the best intentions and breeding program, using sound healthy screened animals doesn't mean that you won't at some point encounter breed problems and the associated heartache. Just out of curiosity. How many years ago did your dog die of SM? Was it PTS due to symptoms resulting in a diagnosis by a Vet or had it had an MRI (which is extremely expensive and hasn't been available for that many years?) I'm just really curious as this is a subject that has been spoken about amongst the Cavalier Breeders I have come to know in the past three years (my mentors) and my Vets. Very,very few cases have been diagnosed in Australia compared to the large quantity of pet Cavalier in this country. In 30 years my Vet has only seen one case and he has treated many Cavaliers. As stated previously in this thread SM isn't the main health issue associated with the CKCS. Subluxating patellars, Mitral valve disease and heritary eye conditions such as retinal dysplasia are of more concern. Also it is not restricted to the CKCS but is present in other toy breeds also. Yes, there are alot of Cavalier breeders out there. They are a very popular dog. And I have also noted that some breeders are breeding ALOT of litters each year/month . But there does appear to be a demand and many have waiting lists because they breed responsibly, sadly there are also alot of BYB who have woken up to the popularity of this lovely little dog. Fortunately they rarely turn up at the dog shelters and pounds, and if they do they get rehomed very sucessfully. I commend you for wanting to learn to try to do things responsibly. I hope you're okay talking about this as I don't wish to upset you.

12 weeks is stated in the rules and regulations for Dogsvic. So who has the final say, the Airlines or the Registration body?? Obviously if that's the airlines ruling they will take the younger pup on a short flight but there could be repurcussions if you're a Registered Breeder from your "Controlling Body". Of course if your sending an unregistered pup and your not a registered breeder you don't have to answer to anyone. Go figure.

I'm quite sure that when I sat my Open Book Registered Breeders Exam with Dogsvic last year the ruling was stated as a generic 18 months minimum age for all bitches bred in Victoria with at leat 18 months between consecutive litters. I think that is a good baseline for all breeds with the onus being on the breeder to hold off on breeding those not considered mature enough to breed yet. Some individuals of larger breeds haven't even have their first season by then. Why change that??

With my first foal I went down to the stable in the middle of the night to check on her as she'd 'waxed' a bit so I was expecting some action and she had her head over the stable door, I patted her and she was sweaty and I turned on the light becuase I heard a shuffling sound and there was the foal at her feet. OH had been down an hour earlier and nothing, so I'd just missed it...they are very quick. But yes, it's no fun putting a newborn foal in the back of a 4X4 and doing the mad rush to the Equine hospital as some friends of mine once did! Worst problem I ever had was a retained placenta and that was easily fixed after I got some Oxytocin (and penicillin) from the Vet. Do bitches 'wax' or drip milk prior to whelping? I haven't heard or read that they do.

So setting up the whelping box yesterday and letting her have a lay down in it yesterday was a bit premature eh! It looks so cosy with it's new pink Vetbed in it. My 10 year old daughter asked why we used sheets and not that fuzzy stuff LOL. OMG A Cavalier refusing food....that I can't wait to see!!!

I did Bonnies temperature today to see what is 'normal' for her and she was 37.8 degrees. So should I take it daily for a few days now to see where she 'sits' at and what is normal for her and then do it twice daily during the last week? Pretty much. I start doing my temps about 2 weeks out. The last week I start doing twice daily and the last few days before 63 days I do three times a day if needed. I remember one bitch, I took the temp at 6pm, 6am it had dropped and by 6pm it was back up. If you also find out from your girls breeder, when the mother whelped (ie 61 days) that will also be a good guide to look towards. The bitch will not always do the same as the mother, but if the mother and grandmother went at 61 days, that is a good indication to start to be expecting action. I will generally feed the bitch small amounts of lactose free milk or Biolac during whelping in preference to calcium tablets. Nutrigel is also handy if it is a big litter as a boost of energy. I just watched a "Whelping Video" and the breeder stated that the temperature dropped by about 1 degree 12 to 24 hours prior to whelping AND THEN WENT BACK UP JUST BEFORE WHELPING?? So any rise after a drop could be most confusing if it keeps going up and down!

My Cavaliers bleed heavier than my Border Collie X used too!!! Perhaps because she was outside but she kept her self very clean and never left stains on her bed or at the back porch. I used bitches pants with a cut in half panty liner for my little girls now. But they can be a problem if worn outdoors as they will pee through them so you have to remember to take them off when shes outdoors or if she lives outdoors, then they aren't any use. Also bear in mind that Vets do state that if a bitch is desexed BEFORE her first season she has better protection against breast Cancer (my poor Border got this at age 12 and had to have a radical masectomy and hysterestomy and then died of a stroke 3 months later!!?? (probably unrelated?)

Thanks guys, very helpful information AND I've managed to find the "Whelping Essentials" thread from back in November 2008 which I recall reading back then when I first started to think of maybe someday breeding these lovely creatures. ALL SO VERY DIFFERENT from foaling mares, that happens so quickly and there is just the one babe to concentrate on and they are so self sufficent in comparison. Somehow having pushed three out myself the birthing experience doesn't worry me (and I've a stack of cloth nappies that will come in very useful I think. . Still I have a very good relationship with my Vet(s) so that is a great comfort. I've probably paid for his family holidays for th past 16 years!!! I did Bonnies temperature today to see what is 'normal' for her and she was 37.8 degrees. So should I take it daily for a few days now to see where she 'sits' at and what is normal for her and then do it twice daily during the last week?

Also I've seen "weaning jackets" where the boobs are covered over so mum can play with the pups and they can't get at her teats. I've seen directions on how to make your own using two child/baby T-Shirts. One put on "normally" the other on backwards with a hole for the tail and toileting cut out and the two tied together. Interesting concept.

Temperature, temperature, temperature! When the temperature drops SUDDENLY by 1 degree or more, you will have puppies within 12 - 24 hours (under NORMAL circumstances!). Oh course, I've read that, that's why I have the thermometer!! Thanks Ellez

Thanks Fifi I'm getting lots of "mentor/breeder advice and have a number of experienced breeders I know I can call at any time. (Hello BB and BJ) Time being the operative word. Who knows 'when' she will choose to have the actual event. She sleeps in my room but I work night shift, which is good actually as she will never be home alone but I have a horrible vision of OH sleeping through a whelping and me coming home to a litter of pups. Oh well, so long as they're okay!

Agree with all above. Could you imagine the frustration and 'attempts' if the bitch on heat was 'showing' this of to the poor lad!!?? It doesn't matter what she is wearing, a bitch in heat smells like a bitch in heat and they would both behave as instinct dictates. Keep them apart.

So glad it has been a positive outcome!! Poor (greedy) little fella. I nearly had a similar outcome when I discovered my Cavalier had got the top off the Dry Food, she was about to have a right Royal feast of Royal Canin!! Little piglet. :D I need feed bins with easier to get off lids for me and harder to get off for her. This one has a really tight lid but if put on tight I have trouble with it.

At least he didn't eat gravel/pebbles like that Pug pup in England!!

Absolutely, I ws getting dizzy following it!!!

Okay, well my bitch has been holding her cards close to her chest for the last 30 days but now we have some serious 'nipple development' and some tummy swelling too. So my "mental check list', that I've been researching for what seems like 4EVA, (okay over a year) needs to become a reality. I've looked at whelping supplies lists (books and websites) and alot of the stuff I have or can get fairly easily but not everything so I am thinking I need to get a hemostat, do I need a suction bulb (I was quite prepared to just invert the pup for a natural drainage from lungs if it didn't make a noise first up???) And on that note...How much intervention is appropriate for a first time mother who I have a strong bond with and who trusts me unconditionally?? I am fully prepared to be a midwife and sit through the whole thing with her but how much intervention is correct really? Should I let her do the cords and eat the placenta if she wants to? Or tie and cut myself for fear of her doing them too close? Do I trust her instincts? I want it to be a positive experience for her too. Of course I realise intervention is sometimes essential to a positive outcome, even to the point of calling up the Vet at 3.00 am but is there a line in the sand? What do you do?

After a missed mating last season, I refused to get my hopes up...but...Bonnie my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is showing some serious nipple development now that she hadn't had previously. So paws crossed for a litter due around September 11th.

Are the Black & Tans born with pink noses too???!!!

Maybe she should check the "Chihuaraniam Breeders" listing???

Good on you georgous girl! :D