Simply Grand

What about the fact the Police dog was doing its job? He was seeking an offender and was in full drive to try to carry out his duty. It was doing its job but that doesn't make it okay for it to bite a random member of the public while doing that job. The person it but wasn't the person it was tracking and if it is likely to bite anyone who gets in its way, then it should never be allowed out of sight and control of its handler. Exactly Snook! I agree it was kinda dumb of the man to pat the dog but who knows what the circumstances were. Chasing an offender doesn't justify a police dog, or police officer for that matter, injuring innocent members of the public.

Yay Stan! Happy Gotcha Day. Here's to many more years of entertaining us all :D

Haha, I was looking at Pax's photos last night and was just coming back to see if it was in fact Justice's friend Pax :D

How awesome Snook, that's great news! The boys look very happy together :)

Aaargh, baby Esky! So cute!

Parvo comes on fast, pup could easily have gone from fine, no symptoms, to critically ill over 24 hours. Very glad you got pup to the vet. Incubation period is 7-10 days as I understand it so it does seem likely the pup came in contact with it before you brought it home but the breeder may have been unaware. If you haven't already, you need to let the breeder know about this as their other dogs and pups from the litter may be affected. Re. Who's responsible for costs, I really don't know

What a perfect explanation! I don't have a whole lot of experience with them but you've really articulated my impressions. Funnily enough, I actually do tend to poke my Aussie Shepherd quite often, she tends to poke me back with her paw :laugh: (really!) On a sad note, one of the shelter dog euthanasias I was saddest and most conflicted about was a 5/6 month old red stumpy tail who was surrendered to the shelter having had no socialisation at all, he lived in an apartment with his old man owner from six weeks old and literally only left the apartment to go out to toilet. He would bite at anyone who tried to touch him at first but he decided to trust me after a few days and was super sweet and fun with me then but not great with other people and pretty bad with dogs and it was like you said Cosmolo, you could see that at the slightest push past the line where he was comfortable he would react in a flash, no warning, and in his case it was with aggression. It was really sad because I think if he'd been well socialised he could have been a great little dog in the right home

I am going to respond to the comments on my last post about PTS, just when I'm more awake... But I couldn't go past the adorable Justice picture without saying He looks so cuuuuuute! You should print that on a canvas for the wall, I think it would make me smile whenever I saw it :laugh:

Looks good, thanks Perse :) Excerpt from another article on there: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201403/dog-aggression-is-predicted-training-methods-and-breed Dog Aggression Is Predicted by Training Methods and Breed 'One very interesting finding concerned the positive effects of puppy socialization classes. According to these data such classes seem to impart a protective effect against aggression. Attending puppy classes on at least two occasions before the dog was 12 weeks of age was associated with a 1.4 times reduced risk of aggression toward unfamiliar people entering the house and a 1.6 times reduced risk of showing aggression to unfamiliar people out of the house. While on the issue of dog training, one of the most practically significant findings found in this research has to do with the effect that the type of training has on a dog's risk of aggression. There have been a number of studies that have reported that training procedures based on punishment can have negative consequences (click here for an example). In this study the researchers defined such punitive training techniques as including things like physical punishment (hitting the dog), verbal punishment (shouting), electrical or citronella collars, choke chains and jerking on the leash, prong collars, water pistols, electric fences and so forth. Such punitive techniques apparently increase the risk of aggression in dogs. They are associated with a 2.9 times increased risk of aggression to family members, and a 2.2 times increased risk of aggression to unfamiliar people outside of the household.'

Me? Yeah, I don't have 12,000 which is why I said the above.

If it were my dog and I'd been quoted $12,000 I would be doing a whole lot more research than just who will do the surgery cheaper. How was LP diagnosed? What is the grade and nature of the luxation? Is the dog showing symptoms? How old is the dog - puppies can grow out of it, is it really beneficial to subject an old dog to surgery and recovery? Is management rather than surgery an option? If surgery is necessary how will it be done, one at a time or both at once? Recovery time? Consequences of the surgery? I admire you trying to help but this is why I say the dog's owner really needs to do this research themselves.

Um, perhaps the owner of the dog needs to ask for recommendations and speak to surgeons themselves about their options... It's not just a case of one size fits all cheapest surgery. ETA. There are variables with patella issues. How old is the dog? What symptoms are showing? What grade is the luxation?

Well, if that's the case I'd suggest the owner seek another vet's opinion...

Yes, their knees are on their back legs. Has the vet told you it's patellas on front legs?

Just wondering if the OP has been misinformed, or misinterpreted? Maybe it's an elbow problem?

Ok this may be a really dumb question, but aren't patellas in the back legs, not the front?

I agree with you hankdog and I think it's an important thing to consider (not necessarily for you Snook if that's not where you're at, but for anyone dealing with a dog with issues). Remember as well that any time a dog is reacting negatively it is physically and mentally in a state of distress so in a case of a dog requiring regular intensive management with an owner regularly worrying about that you have an unhappy dog AND unhappy human for some portion of their lives. I really believe that a calm and pain free euthanasia is far from the worst thing that can happen to a dog and if you can give them an enjoyable, happy and loving time at the end it can be a very trauma-free experience for the dog, and a sad but again not traumatic experience for the human. Bear in mind that many shelter dogs that have behaviour issues are euthanised because on objective assessment it is found to be just not fair to put people or the dog in the position of having to deal with the dog's issues Having said all that, it's a very personal decision when you're talking about your own dog and certainly not something anyone not directly involved in the situation has any right to involve themselves in (not that you did that hankdog, just don't want it to sound like I'm particularly advocating PTS for dogs with behaviour issues!)

Good post, I agree Esp. the bolded bit.

that is the best!

I think what dogs enjoy or at least don't mind is very different when you're talking about your own dog who loves and trusts you and can read you very well vs. when it's a dog and a non-family member or a stranger. Depends on where you are and what else is going on as well. Quinn is quite happy to be hugged by me when we're relaxing on the couch or lying in bed but if we're at the park it pretty clear she'd rather be unrestrained and keeping an eye on what's going on around us all. Riley literally throws himself into my arms to be held and is happy to lie upside down like a baby with me but if someone he doesn't know tries to pick him up he is extremely u comfortable and will move away. Saxon's quite happy for me to give him head scratches and play with his hair and rub his ears but he's not so keen on other people doing it. As far as talking to them goes, I do feel mean sometimes when I'm rambling away (to them because there's no one else around) about something that isn't to do with them and I'm getting attentive head tilts as they try to figure out what I'm telling them! ETA snap everyone else!

This behaviour has nothing to do with dominance. Indeed, the least socially confident dog here is the resource guarder. That's very interesting! Why is it do you think that he feels the need to guard things? (not just food, he guards everything) I figured that the act of actually taking something over to one of the cats, laying it in front of them and then guarding it from them was a display of dominance. Why do you think he might be doing that? It seems like an odd thing for him to do if he's the least confident. Some dogs are born with an inherited tendency towards severe resource guarding. I've seen more than one 7 or 8 week old puppy be super cute and cuddly until a bowl of food goes down then instantly snap into severe aggression towards humans to guard that food, then snap straight back to cuddly puppy mode when that food goes away. I've no doubt that's innate behaviour, not learned. It tends to be really obvious with food as it's such a valuable resource but can easily apply to any item the dog views as valuable, and easily escalates if not managed properly. Re taking things over to the cats then guarding then, it's hard to know without seeing it but I'd suspect that, as I mentioned, he's really conflicted. I'd say there is an element that he is excited about his fun toy and does actually want to start a game, but then when he gets there his instincts tell him actually no, I better guard it or I'll lose it. The other thing I'd suspect is that your holding him down while the cats eat has created an even more unpleasant association for him - as in now when there is a resource (food) around and the cats are there he not only doesn't get the food but also gets held down uncomfortably without understanding why, so now however much he night want to invite the cats to join in his game, he's now worried about losing his resource AND being held down so actually he'd better try even harder to scare everyone away from him when he has something valuable. ETA obviously I'm just theorising, someone watching the behaviour and assessing the whole big picture would be able to give you a more accurate idea.

Definitely worth a vet check but I suspect he feels stressed a lot of the time and that's partly why he has trouble staying focused on you. I think it will be well worth talking to K9 Pro about putting together a new training approach, which will really be more of a lifestyle approach, for the whole household, that will hopefully make things less stressful for all of you :)

A puppy that has been through four homes (including yours) at 7 months has had a tough and unsettled start to life. Whatever good intentions anyone had he didn't have a stable environment with consistency during important socialisation and development stages. He may well not have been "mistreated" per se but that unsettled life during those critical phases is plenty for him to develop issues. Having said that, he could certainly have actually been mistreated enough to cause serious issues in a 7 month period. He also will have been born with certain inherent temperament characteristics so could have had issues even in the most stable of environments from day 1. He sounds horribly conflicted to me, like he maybe wants to be friends and "pack mates" with the cats but has this instinct to resource guard from them and has had all sorts of differing consequences to his behaviours so has no idea where he stands. I hate to say it but I suspect your Cesar Millan approach of trying to force him into submission to the cats have probably confused him more and made things worse Dealing with resource guarding from other animals is very difficult. You cannot force them into a hierarchy amongst themselves. Your approach has to be to teach all the animals that resources are yours to control and you will calmly and consistently manage them amongst the animals so there is no need for any of them to guard anything. I would be very wary of using any sort of physical punishment, or even yelling, with a dog like this, there are ways to deal with resource guarding that are based on creating positive associations and using consistency and positive methods to change his mindset. You really have a complex situation going on here now and you are going to need professional help to sort it out. If you tell us where you are located hopefully someone can recommend a good trainer who can help you. Good on you for trying to do the best for your little guy :) ETA - if you don't get on top of this and he continues to be confused and conflicted it is highly likely to escalate into resource guarding from humans (you!) so you are definitely doing the right thing asking for help now!

Oh Snook Try and take a step back from thinking about it for tonight (I know easier said than done ) Justice gets so many great things from you and you can give him what he needs, it's just really, really unfair that you have to do it all again.

So very difficult for the average pet dog buyer to judge. Edited coz I think I was unfair.