mita

Yes. I've certainly found that price charged is no direct match for quality. In recent years, we've returned to a vet that we used to take our pets to, a number of years ago. Even though I have to drive over 3 suburbs to get to her. And where we'd have complete faith in the quality of her work and her willingness to listen & communicate. We'd had a few dreadful experiences with more local, closer vets. So it was in search of known quality of work that sent us back to her. Once there, I keep looking at her bills & thinking she must've made a mistake. They're so modest compared with poor experiences we've had elsewhere. All our neighbours now take their pets to her. But, again, it was quality of service that sent them there, too. The fairness of her bills is just the icing on the cake.

Me, too.

My dogs have been trained by Erny while boarding, not because I didn't want to train them, but they were going to boarding anyway and I think a bit of training helps tire them out and keep them happy. That said, we had trained in Erny's classes beforehand so I was comfortable leaving my dogs alone with her. That makes sense that your dog was going to be boarding anyway....so training was added. And you'd already trained with your dog in the trainer's classes. All that doesn't rate as 'sight-unseen', IMO.

I think you'd only need to look in the mirror to meet a breeder like that, toy dog. You sound like my kind of breeder! Frankly, in my limited experience, I've met far more decent registered breeders than awful ones. My wish is that responsible pet owners find their ways to breeders like that. And if calling yourself your dog's mother....birth or adoptive....is what nutters do. Then I'm a nut job, too. At least we and our dog are happy.

we keep ours, i just can't bear to part with my bitches that has given me a good bloodline to go on with. we also are a very small volume breeder only preferring to breed to replace a very small show team for ourselves not for anyone else. every breeder is different, some find nice homes for the bitches after they've been desexed. we are able to do that keep our oldies as we have the dogs on two properties. the whole family own our dogs and share them. I agree with you, toy dog. Another breeder of my breed of interest operates the same as you do, keeping her girls. She still has a couple of 'elderlies' from the breed she first started with. This lady gets top rating from me, just as the other lady does. It's how they regard their dogs, meet all their needs.....& give them a decent social life....that convinces me. Interestingly, the breeder we've got our dogs from, always refers to them as 'my girls'. And I don't mind a bit! Because of the way she raised them, I regard her as the 'birth mother'! And I'm the very grateful 'adopting mother'. In fact, another Brissie person who's also just adopted a girl from her.....with fabulous temperament & socialsation...has said that the breeder's wish is to see her girls together again one day. And we must arrange it.

My pet dogs all come from a registered breeder who believes that as soon as her girls have done their bit in the Show-ring & got their titles.....& have had one or two litters....they deserve to be in a good pet home for the rest of their days, if possible. She doesn't have a lot of dogs, so all are known to her by name and personality.....& they have access to the house (as a girl's whelping approaches, that dog sleeps beside her bed, so she's ready to assist). She's part of a national & international network of breeders of her breed. Where health matters are taken seriously, with an International Working Party & tested dogs listed. She makes a conscious effort to continually socialise her dogs & puppies, with access to children and some doing pet therapy. She follows up with support, for life, any of her pups or dogs that've been placed in homes. And, because she knows their personalities so well, is able to make good matches. No wonder, the dogs that I've got from her have been brilliantly socialised to be close companion dogs. And scientific research would back the worth and necessity of what she's doing in that respect. Interestingly, the word 'socialisation' is absent from most support of commercial puppy breeding. Of course, she'd sell her puppies for money.... & they're worth it, in terms of the expert knowledge put into their breeding & raising. I doubt if she'd describe herself as a 'commercial' breeder, which implies making a living....and maybe supporting employees as well. And I doubt if commercial breeders could do what she does, given there'd have to be larger numbers of dogs & more emphasis on number of litters produced. Which is why I support her 'hobby', 'breed-centred', approach as the source for any puppy or dog I'd get. And I'd like to see registered breeders like her, get the acknowledgement and consideration they've earned. The critical issue that needs to be looked into is supply of puppies and dogs, given that such an 'expert hobby model' does not produce puppies in great numbers. Like, is there any benefits in the model frequently used in the Scandanavian country from which one of my dogs originally came. Some of a registered breeder's dogs may be placed in 'hub' homes, from which they go on with their show career, but in which they benefit from the up -close care and socialisation.

Just my opinion & my choice, but I can't see the point in handing over my dog to be trained sight-unseen. I want the training to include me with my dog. So I'd want to be staying, too.

The AVA's position is not surprising. Vet science has its base in science & 'dangerous' dog is about behaviour, not about appearance. For a few years now, the position of the American Vet Association has been that dog management and control, is not about a dog's appearance, nor breed per se. 'Dogs being dangerous' is connected with behaviour... human inter-relating with canine. Will someone remind the Victorian politicians & councils about the drunk looking under the streetlight for his lost key.....even though he lost it somewhere out in the darkness....because it's easier? If they want effective ways of managing dogs for greater community safety, they're presently looking in the wrong place. Which is what the AVA is effectively saying.

I think you offered comprehensive information to back what you'd already said on your website anyway. So good on you. Having said that, I'm amazed by the number of pet people I've come across, who've got a purebred puppy (on a promise to get desexed), and then say something like, 'He/she is so gorgeous that it'd be a shame not to let him/her sire/have one litter of puppies.' So there would have to be a convincing case made, in an attempt to persuade those people to think/do otherwise. The one positive thing is that the person who responded to you, was honest about their intentions in their reply It would have been just as easy for someone to go along with your statement about getting the pup desexed...& then just do what they wanted anyway. So at least, you were given the opportunity to make your case.

There was a review in Q'ld's Sunday Mail a couple of weeks back, about a holiday retreat where both dogs and owners can go stay for an assessment & training lessons. Called Riverview Retreat, it's at Burrum Heads, north of Hervey Bay. The trainer is Chris de Alitiz & it says he follows the calm, assertive leadership techniques of Cesar Milan. Chris calls his training & rehabilitation service, Natural Balance. He also used to be a professional surfer & will teach your dogs to balance on a paddleboard on the river, if you like. (There's a great picture of the reviewers' 3 dogs happily being paddleboarded along the river's edge). The review starts off (tongue in cheek ) : 'The misbehaviour had been going on too long. In the case of the two boys, almost since birth. The girl, adopted five years later, had picked up on the boys' worst traits -back-answering, a reluctance to bathe, general boisterousness - and, being the eldest of the siblings, was often the instigator of a group rebellion. Clearly, something had to be done. We'd heard about a reform school, one that combined supremely relaxing accommodation for alpha humans, with firm and effective discipline for their wayward offspring. ....we set out without a second thought.' The reviewers say that even in the first day, they noticed improvement. Over the course of a single day, we watched him turn our three troubemakers into models of doggy decorum. Their overall Verdict on their stay: Paradise found. Bring mutt (and mat) (The mat is because follow operator, Claire Dixon, is a trained Hatha yoga teacher who leads Ayurvedic classes on site.)

Lizandel, I'm so, so sorry for your loss. I know the awful feeling of losing a much loved dog before her time. My thoughts are with you & all who loved your beautiful girl.

Have a look at Bobby, for adoption from a Melbourne-based rescue (one that's impressed me with their standards). http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/118346 Your MIL might also like to look through the pages of small dogs available for adoption from Victorian rescue groups. Bobby's just one of them. http://www.petrescue.com.au/search/?a=d&g=a&s=s&l=vic&i=0&pg=1

Good points. This has always been the case. There's no scientific standing to anyone being able to identify a breed type by visual examination only. No matter how many visual 'checkpoints' are drawn up. Vets work from a scientific base, so understandably they'd be 'out of here!' to any such request which had some legal consequence. Also there's no direct scientific connection between a dog's conformation and predicting how it will behave. Once again, vets would be expected to go outside their base in science to make any claim that a dog's appearance predicts how it will behave. All of which show what a tangled mess follows when legislation tries to go the 'breed' only route when managing for public safety. it's so like the drunk searching under the streetlight for his lost keys.....because it's easier than looking where he actually lost them. As others keep pointing out, why don't they look for government systems which have followed the evidence & come up with better stats re dog management safety. Like Calgary.

That's a fair point, Sticky. You're right, in a sense the legislation still hones in on the dog, rather than squarely on an owner's behaviour. It's just slotting in to the questionable things about 'restricted' breeds that's in other legislation (as DR's posted). I wish there was a category of negligence in managing a dog.....any dog. ( Just like there's a possible charge of negligence in operating a motor vehicle. Any motor vehicle. ) But I need to read that legislation more carefully again. Thanks for posting it.

You could've said in your first post that you wanted 'my bull breed saved my life' stories. I thought you meant stories about bull breeds which showed them in a positive light in everyday life. Same as for any dog. Which is how these dogs should be judged.

The Qld tibbie was from Myikyi. My other equally great tibbies have come from Lynandra in NSW (no longer operating) and Pzazz from Sweden (imported & raised & beautifully socialised at Telavier in NSW). The experienced sheltie breeders in the Sheltie Club of Qld, also get the hugest bouquet from me, for what they produce. I'm sure there'd be registered breeders of this calibre for other breeds as well. It beats me why anyone would go anywhere near a pet store or a puppy farm. I thought your post captured perfectly what this 'calibre' is. So it's good to see the OP doing her homework.

I'm not the owner of a bull breed.....but was the finder of a lost pitbull girl. First one I've ever met in real life. My own dogs have been gentle shelties and calm, affectionate tibbies. Well, that pitbull girl impressed me so much. She was in a stressful situation, being lost, and then grabbed by a stranger. But she took it all, with grace (yes, grace!) & intelligence. She'd got lost with a 'sister', a little pretty rather ditzy spaniel type. And she watched out for that little one, like a mother. She was one of the nicest and most sensible dogs I've come across. I could have owned her in a heartbeat! Not surprisingly, when her owners were located, they were sensible dog-lovers who'd raised her from puppyhood.....to be a well-socialised and sensible dog. And her condition was excellent. She shone with good health.

Well said, Amanda. That's spot-on information for anyone considering getting a puppy. And I speak as a pet owner who has got purebreds from registered breeders who've done all you've said. Lovely, lovely dogs in looks, temperament and general health. Our sheltie from a Q'ld breeder never ever had any problem requiring vet treatment from the time she was desexed as a youngster to the last year of her long life. Same with a tibbie who also came from a Q'ld breeder. I'd only add to the OP.....also consider a Smooth Collie.

There was an excellent report from a Task Force set up by the American Veterinary Association. They argued for a community approach to preventing dog bites and attacks. Not for banning breeds. The report covers a lot of points that DOLers have brought up, starting from the point that the reporting of dog attacks in the media tends to whip up a frenzy that sets 'remediation' in the wrong direction. So their report starts off with having a cool-headed look at what actually happens in dog-human interactions that go wrong....& why is it so. They also argue for informed commentators to have the job of contributing to media reports, in the first instance. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3ETXfcU1KmYJ:www.avma.org/public_health/dogbite/dogbite.pdf+Comparison+numbers+of+people+turning+up+at+hospital+for+dog It was interesting that the Australian Veterinary Association spokesperson who contributed to the Sydney Morning Herald's excellent article on dog bites, took this line. Her comments were designed to inform, & to hose down hysteria. They were supported by equally sensible comments from an academic from Monash University.

I'd tend to agree, aussie. Maybe it was related to anxiety in the face of a comatose owner. But when so many of these 'dog incidents' are unpicked, they may not be as slaveringly savage as they appear. And I speak as one person who spoke up for the blue heeler that bit me. That was not a 'person attacking' dog.....it was a dog out for a dog fight & allowed to do so by an owner. That was a situation that was remediable by doing what responsible owners do....they socialise their dogs with other dogs and contain their dogs on their property. There's something hysterical that breaks out over dog incidents. I bet over the day & night when this latest 'media' reported incident happened, there would've been hundreds of cases of human whacking humans all over the country. To the extent that some medical treatment was necessary. I remember reading some stats that compared numbers of people turning up needing medical treatment.....from dog bites and from human aggression. One guess which number was way, way larger.

Of course many people will automatically try to save their dog if it's under serious attack....when it's on-lead and out being walked. The emotional response to their pet dog is the same as that towards a family member. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's just what many people automatically do. And that needs factoring in to prevention. Because it means dog aggressive dogs have potential to harm humans as a spin-off in attacking other dogs. So their owners need to be held responsible when such possibilities become realities. It's just as serious an offence against public safety to let a dog-aggressive dog be loose in public as it is to let a human-aggressive dog loose. And it means that dog owners, out walking their dogs need to factor in ways to try to deal with the problem, if it happens. From my experience, time is limited when a solid dog with jaws agape, comes hurtling at speed straight at your own dog/s that are right beside your legs. And the hurtling dog weighs nearly as much as you do. While your own dogs' leads tangle your legs as they understandably panic. Yes, that's happened to me, too. Saved by a pair of passing truck drivers. Another heeler (red) being walked off-lead. I've heard tips like carrying a pop up umbrella which may offer a temporary shield. But the reality is... mayhem in a flash. One of the things I see in my area, is a few elderly people walking their small dogs when darkness has just fallen. To avoid the people who walk dogs without them being on-leash. And they stick to walking around the shopping centre, not the walking tracks.

My thought, too. Cooking up nice-smelling food in the middle of an off-leash dog park.

I'm sure he'll say it was a bull breed dressed up as a Lab ;) The Sydney Morning Herald's sensible article on the uselessness of banning breeds, pointed out that it was a pet labrador responsible for the attack where a French woman had her face torn off. She was the recipient of the world's first partial facial transplant. She said she'd taken some drugs to forget her problems & passed out. She woke up to find her labrador beside her and a good part of her face bitten off.

Human A put a dog in the position of where it would/could attack a smaller dog on a leash being walked by Human B. And Human B suffered injuries needing medical attention when he intervened to save his attacked, on-leash dog. This scenario could apply to any breeds or mixes . What's relevant is how Human A came to set that dog up, for what it did. Lack of containment? No lead in public place? Lack of socialisation from young age to be around other dogs? Lack of training? The list goes on. Human A needs to be brought to account for the extent to which one or more of those apply. Whatever the breed of dog, its behaviour needs assessing.....as a consequence of however it's been let down by the humans who've had/has responsibility for it. By the way, I once got bitten by a dog that came tearing out of an open gate. It went straight for my 2 gentle shelties that I was walking, on leash. I automatically put my arm in front of my dogs & the dog literally ran into it, with teeth already bared for the first bite. I screamed at it to 'Go!'....& the owner in the houseyard called it back. Despite blood running down my arm, the owner walked back inside the house. And, yes, the bite needed medical attention and an injection. I reported it to the Council & stressed that the dog was not 'going' at me.....it ran into my arm that I stuck in front of my shelties. And it did stop when yelled at. The person who was responsible was the owner who'd left the gate open & then ignored the fact her dog had bitten someone. The Council officer was great....he was then off to call at that house. I felt the matter was in safe hands now. His first focus, same as mine, was on the owner who'd demonstrated negligence and lack of responsibility. He said I was the first bitten person he'd come across that'd given a fair assessment of the 'attacking' dog. By the way, I think a dog-aggressive dog fits in a specific category of potential to be 'dangerous' and cause mayhem & harm. And the Council ranger was going to assess that, too. Breed of dog, a blue heeler. A breed much loved by our family.

I can only repeat what genuine people Karen & Max are, when I contacted them to make donations. It was good to know that the money went directly to help 2 loved, well-cared for pets who are the victims of circumstance. But who'll survive thanks to the folk who've gone the long haul with them. Even small donations would add up to helping.