mita

Couldn't agree more!

Yes, question I asked, too. I'd like to find out what the reporting processes are which collect the data. So a further question... Have reporting systems been ratcheted up following so much media attention given to very serious dog attacks? So that dog bites are being reported more? I don't know. WreckitWhippet pointed out in post #2 that mandatory reporting had come into effect during the period, I was a bit surprised that on this forum we would accept that dog aggression had increased especially after this was pointed out. But I'd like to know what those ratcheted up processes are. In the past, there was a recording system thro' hospital data/records. The definition of a dog bite for reporting in stats, was one that required hospital treatment. Has a mandatory system extended that to GPs, ambulance centres etc? If so, those bites below the level of hospital treatment will now be counted. If stats come from medical treatment sources, then in-home bites would more likely be picked up. And most bites, especially of children, happen in their homes. Or is the data collected only via reports by the public to animal management? If so, there's now the definition of 'rushing' as an 'attack'. And would in-home bites be picked up? Those stats only tell us anything of use, if we know who's reporting what to whom & how.

Certainly shows that the way towards public safety re dogs, doesn't lie in just hunting down breeds. A sensible conclusion that encouraging reporting would make the dog bite stats go up. The Barristers Animal Welfare Panel is hoping to bring to Australia the ranger (now retired) who helped spearhead that approach in Calgary. They... & lots of others! ... want him to talk with dog management folk & legislators here:

This makes sense. Make the strategy fit the particular dog. I'm only guessing, but the way the super-vigilant tibbie girl was fed by hand in the first couple of weeks, seemed to actually help her bond with her new family. Gave her an opportunity to drop her vigilance. Later turned out.... she'd sell her little soul for food!!!

Yes, question I asked, too. I'd like to find out what the reporting processes are which collect the data. So a further question... Have reporting systems been ratcheted up following so much media attention given to very serious dog attacks? So that dog bites are being reported more? I don't know.

The story in no way is influenced by dogmad posting it. If Joe Blow posted it, the circumstances would be the same. Another case where breed label suddenly takes centre stage.... when all the causes of this situation lie in what humans did or did not do. Mantis.... I would have thought you'd agree with how some posts in this thread, teased that out?

Yes, to those saying keep an open mind. This was in The Australian, June 2013. Reference was to the Facebook page about dogs being stolen for the dog-fighting. RSPCA Qld spokesman Michael Beatty said although the Facebook page did risk creating unnecessary concern for pet owners, it educated them on how to reduce the risk of pets escaping or being stolen. Mr Beatty said RSPCA investigators and police suspected illegal dog fighting rings were operating in Queensland, but they didn't have concrete evidence to catch those responsible.

Seems to be a pack of dogs outside any human responsibility. I hope the authorities will investigate to see how this came to happen. Aren't pitbulls & pitbull cross type dogs more common in some areas in the US? Horrible thing to happen to the lady. Something like that once happened in a Qld town. Elderly lady was killed when a bunch of what was said at the time to be pitbulls, jumped over the fence from next door. It was one of the triggers for BSL legislation being very easily passed in that State. Far too hastily, as it later turned out .... as evidence now points at other ways, than banning breeds, to support public safety.

T, one of the experienced tibbie breeders used to say the same as you. Except she said the longest hold-out had been 3 days! My memory's a bit vague, but I think she used to say to put the food down, then if not touched in 20 minutes take it away ... & keep repeating that.

As this topic is about dogs that've developed aggressiveness to humans ... guess which size emerged as one of the statistically significant factors in that huge Cordoba study, of all sizes from big to small? Small size. Fits in with their main conclusion of human behaviour being the most important factor in dogs developing such behaviour. And why they stress the importance of training/management. People are more likely to train their larger dogs, in the interests of self protection. But that's less likely with small dogs. Of course, small dogs are not as capable of causing extent of injury to adults. But the most vulnerable group for dog bites is babies, toddlers & young children. And their faces tend to be on a level with the dogs. While their finer skin, tends to be more severely injured by bites. (I own small dogs.)

Interesting that people driving irresponsibly should come up. I recall reading a US study that looked at factors about the owners of dogs that'd been involved in serious dog attacks. One thing that popped out... was that those owners tended to rack up more than average number of traffic offences. Showing their own poor impulse control, poor sense of consequences... No wonder they'd been highly unlikely to impose control training/management on their dogs ... nor have a sense of consequences for not doing that. BTW Other owner characteristics that came out.... were not registering their dogs & being more likely (but not necessarily) to have criminal offences in their background. I've got a vague memory that the French authorities have some restrictions on what dogs people with criminal records can own.

We had a Sheltie that'd do that. Anything she decided was wrong ... like the cat being in the wrong place... she'd give a special bark to tell people to come fix it. Even the neighbours got to know it. We used to say she meant 'Work!' It proved brilliant when we had our 22 yr old little dog, that'd get lost in her own garden or in the house. Shelley just had to be told, 'Find Grandma!' And she would. Next thing we'd hear 'Work!'

BTW Here's the breeds in the University of Cordoba study. They looked at what was the most significant in aggression developing in dogs...internal factors relating to dogs or external factors where human behaviour modified the dogs' behaviours. And it was human behaviours that came out as the key. They acknowledged exceptions when there was some internal medical/physiological problem. The Spanish researchers studied 711 dogs (354 males and 357 females) of which 594 were purebreds and 117 were mixed breeds over a year old. Among the breeds studied were Bull Terriers, American Pit Bull Terriers, German Shepherds, Boxers, Rottweilers, Dobermanns, and also apparently more docile breeds such as Dalmatians, Irish Setters, Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers, Miniature poodles, Chihuahuas, Pekingeses, and French Bulldogs.

Dog breeds with a 'fighting background', still have the same developmental process as any other dog. What do you believe that the 'fighting background' will 'give' that dog which will inherently & invariably make them a danger for biting/attacking people? Is it the physical features? If that's it.... then physical features do not determine behaviour. Is it genetic heritage? If you think that, then the science is that genes are not sole determinants ... they can require environmental factors to switch them on. And dogs, within the same breed or even in the same bloodline, are not clones .... there will be differences. Which explains why even some dogs that have been used in actual dog-fighting have been rehabilitated, with relative ease, to live trustworthy, alongside humans. Have you seen the follow-up of 'fighting dogs' rescued from that US sports bloke? One even works in pet therapy. Much of the science points to human behaviour in what people provide for dogs....& do with them. Look at the results from the University of Cordoba. Those researchers' conclusions came out in support of really strong training/management of dogs. .. all dogs, including the smallest . So the recommendations for helping the community to be safer... from all respected groups like the Vet Associations... have not not supported BSL, but recommended other measures that hone in on human behaviours. Nekhbet's post 48 spells out well, what all this means in everyday life.

Trina, that's a lovely pic.

Thanks for posting that info, Steve. Good to see something positive.

Mita, that is not an active website. Charmaine's number is in the link I posted, post #5. Thanks, trifecta.

Sometimes the breed rescues in other states can know of someone waiting to adopt a rescue. So wouldn't hurt just to let Victoria GSP Rescue know, too. Contact details here: http://www.gspclubvic.net/rescue

There's name, phone no & email for GSP Rescue NSW here/ http://www.oocities.org/monsterbuckley/gsprescuensw.html

Follow your argument to its logical end, & all dogs that have size & muscle strength would be banned. And only small dogs who've had their teeth extracted would remain. As organizations like both the American & Australian Veterinary Associations point out BSL does not address the factors which actually are implicated in risk factors for dog attacks/bites. Both groups have published evidence-based recommendations for how those factors can be addressed. In fact, putting resources into BSL just takes attention away from dealing with those real risk factors that aren't breed specific.

Great news about Carter doing well. The pic says so much... such a happy boy who can relax knowing he's got a good mum. Keep the updates & pics coming.

This. We can't even make a "b" sound without Lili noticing :laugh: Let's hope they never learn to spell, or we are going to be in trouble. It's happened already. My dad used to go fishing on his launch. He'd take our Cardigan Corgi, Biddy, who just loved being on the boat. But he daren't use the word 'fishing' the night before. If he did, Biddy would go sit next to his car... & would stay there the whole night. So he started spelling it...f-i-s-h-i-n-g. Even when talking on the phone to his friends, when arranging details. But it wasn't long before, the penny dropped for Biddy. Yep.... f-i-s-h-i-n-g was fishing. So down to the car she'd go.... for the long night's wait.

Little p/b tibbie next door was like that when she was first adopted by our neighbours. She was ex-Show & came from registered breeder whose dogs were in-home....& with lots of contact with people. But she did have a slightly hyper-vigilant temperament. For some time she wouldn't eat in her new home.... & had to be coaxed with hand-feeding. If left alone, she wouldn't touch the food. But, like dogmad said, it was part of her settling in. She now has the appetite of a ravenous lion, & eats happily if someone's with her or not. And adores her family.

I've heard that there's some studies which show that dogs have a great capacity for understanding human communication. Seems they're much better than chimps. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46319430/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/dogs-understand-us-better-chimps-do-scientists-say/#.UezEtRw_-yM I found a paper on this, some time back (might be filed away). It said that the way dogs understand communication is very like very young children. You know when babies & tiny toddlers can't say much.... but they can understand what people communicate to them, heaps more.

Worth repeating. AVA on what's associated with dog bites/attacks. From their AVA paper which presented evidence-based ideas to deal with the problem. It didn't include banning breeds: While genetics are an important factor, the impact of the environment and learning are critical to the behaviour of a dog. The tendency of a dog to bite is dependent on at least five interacting factors:  heredity (genes, breed)  early experience  socialisation and training  health (physical and psychological) and  victim behaviour (Beaver 2001, Seksel 2002, Snyder 2005). Other factors include the sex and age of the animal, along with a range of other social and environmental factors.1 Dog bite incidents generally occur either in domestic settings where the animal is known to the victim, or by dogs at large (refer to the definition on page 33) unknown to the victim. While dogs at large are responsible for a minority of dog bites2, they attract disproportionate media and political interest. They are the public face of the dog bite problem, and most legislation is designed to control this part of the problem. However, most bites occurred in the dog’s own home and involve victims bitten by their own dog (Kizer 1979 cited in Overall and Love 2001). In Australia, 73% to 81% of attacks occur in the domestic environment (Ashby K 1996 quoted in Ozanne-Smith et al 2001, Thompson